Dog Chasing Sheep, not horsey sorry.

Buds_mum

Buds_mum

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Just need some advice really. My dog is a rescued cocker spaniel, fruit loop. He has been really agressive but is doing well with alot alot of exercise. he's really chilled at home now.

Total disaster on walk today, I turned my back for all of 20 seconds to clear up his mess and he had dissapered. I hear awful barking and bleeting and see him flat out round a feild of ewes and lambs. About 4 feilds over though!! He does roam but how he got over there that quick I will never know!! Well blumming shouted myself hoarse and he did come back, felt like an hour of just praying there was no farmer and his shot gun near! but was more like a min. Got him straight on his lead, the sheep seemed to calm down quick but I felt awful, my uncle is a sheep farmer so I know how serious a dog chasing them is!!

I just don't know what to do, obv he will now be on stringent lead exercise when sheep are in sight but is there any other way I can gaurentee he stays away from sheep?
So angry with him, fool of a dog!!
 
[QUOTE
I just don't know what to do, obv he will now be on stringent lead exercise when sheep are in sight but is there any other way I can gaurentee he stays away from sheep?
So angry with him, fool of a dog!![/QUOTE]

TBH if he was mine he would never be off a lead again! Your uncle may be able to help, the old way was to lock them in a pen with either a ram or a newly lambed ewe. not sure I would want to take the risk though.
 
There are 2 options

1. Never let him off the lead again

2. Training - won't be approved of by all, but you need a remote electric collar, a farmer with sheep that will allow you to do this and basically you let him go and the minute he gets near them shock him and give him biscuits and sympathy when he comes back

With most dogs this is a permanent cure as they had a long memory about sheep that "bite"

Some will think it cruel, but better than a shotgun and I fence my horses with electric, so used properly I think its an excellent tool
 
Dolcé;10748591 said:
[QUOTE
TBH if he was mine he would never be off a lead again! Your uncle may be able to help, the old way was to lock them in a pen with either a ram or a newly lambed ewe. not sure I would want to take the risk though.
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Well I know this is what the huntsman does with hounds. he two knarly tups(?) castrated males anyway who seem to take sport in beating up hounds who are overly interested in sheep... If he had killed one he would be in that vets in a heartbeat!! Rather have him pts than shot by a farmer!!
 
Eek, poor you.. It's not an easy thing to change and although farmers have their own methods with unruly/ over exuberant collies and farm dogs- i'd be inclined to keep him on the lead and not risk it.
 
Can you take him on a long line to your uncles and borrow a ram that is not scared of dogs? When the dog goes for the ram it'll stand it's ground and try and butt sometimes enough to cure a dog around sheep. Or walk in field with sheep with farmers permission on a long line again and just keep reinforcing no when tries to take off after them. We did this with our springer and our sheep when he was young and he always ignores them looks really funny when they follow him round the field! Same for deer he was told no often enough and ignores them totally rabbits are fair game though!
 
Jen_Cots said:
There are 2 options

1. Never let him off the lead again

2. Training - won't be approved of by all, but you need a remote electric collar, a farmer with sheep that will allow you to do this and basically you let him go and the minute he gets near them shock him and give him biscuits and sympathy when he comes back

With most dogs this is a permanent cure as they had a long memory about sheep that "bite"

Some will think it cruel, but better than a shotgun and I fence my horses with electric, so used properly I think its an excellent tool
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Intresting the electric collar thingy... He does run and run and run when off so I think he ran in the feild, the sheep started running and his little brain went ''CHASE!!''! But now I am concerned he'll see a sheep and chase straight away, b*stard thing!

Thank You Attie and Surreydeb, he's a stubborn thing/brainless. Think I will give my uncle a call, although pretty sure what his idea would be! I can totally avoid all places with sheep (which i will be doing) but does limit us. At least there is none on the beach!
 
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Get a trainer or behaviourist out to see what the triggers are and how you can react to them, especially if you are considering the electric collar route, improper use of a remote collar can make a chaser worse.

On a lead and securely kept until it is sorted, even if that means forever, better than filled full of lead.
 
Not that Im advocating this but mine thought about it when we first moved onto the farm. They were thrown in with the ewes and ram and duly hammered by them and they don't do it any more.
Controversial, wont work for all types of dogs (mine are intent on chasing but haven't the stomach for killing anything) but worked for me and hugely better than a mauled sheep, a huge vet bill and/or a shot dog.
 
Jen_Cots said:
There are 2 options

1. Never let him off the lead again

2. Training - won't be approved of by all, but you need a remote electric collar, a farmer with sheep that will allow you to do this and basically you let him go and the minute he gets near them shock him and give him biscuits and sympathy when he comes back

With most dogs this is a permanent cure as they had a long memory about sheep that "bite"

Some will think it cruel, but better than a shotgun and I fence my horses with electric, so used properly I think its an excellent tool
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I have to say that I wouldn't disagree with this. If it can work on a permanent basis then that has to be better for everyone concerned. I see it as being the same as me putting up a low electric line around the goslings, deliberately to shock Murph because he kept lunging at them. It would also be safer to both the dog and the ram. I would hate to be in this position. I have no doubt that Murphy would do exactly this if we had sheep locally.
 
I will contact his behaviourist again, unfortunatly he is tallying up the strikes against his name (first two came from biting my step father rather hard!).

Needless to say he will be staying on the lead, unless we are in a totally sheep free zone (ie. the beach). BoolavogueDC this worked with your dogs? It'd have to be something like this or the electric collar (which I would want professional help with) as I think he's too bloody braindead to understand proper training, he gets defensive and aggressive when you tell him 'no' (due to being beaten we understand) so we have to use positive reinforcement training and distraction techniques. Geeesh rescuing a dog is all very well but i seem to of got a really special one!!!
 
I'm pleased to hear you're taking it so seriously, better train him, however hard it feels on him, than have him running in with the sheep. I have a shotgun license application on my desk at the moment as our local irresponsible puppy farming dog owner's "stud wolf dog" got in with my sheep and killed one lamb and savaged two others, one of which has now died. Unlike yours though this animal was human aggressive as the policemen and vet who came to help me all found out. Having been left to keep the dog off my sheep for six hours and then being told to hand it back to the owners if I ever find another dog in my sheep again I will shoot- as authorised to do by the police on this occasion. What I'd really like to shoot are the dog owners who allowed their dog to go unhandled and untrained, let alone unconfined resulting in a day's killing spree not just of my animals but others in the village too. The dogs live a hundred yards from a primary school - the only thing that saved the rest of my sheep and lambs was that they were herded into a pen and stopped running (and I stood between the dog and them and have rarely been so scared in all my life), imagine trying to tell a group of five year olds to stop running when a wolf lookalike is chasing them. It could have been an utter disaster.
Sorry, gone rather off what I started to say which is thank goodness for people like you who take responsibilty and want to get the problem sorted.

btw it might be a good idea to let the farmer know what happened to his sheep - even if you ring anonymously and tell him you saw "someone's" dog in there so that he can have a good check on them for any stress-related problems.
 
Dee O'Dorant said:
I'm pleased to hear you're taking it so seriously, better train him, however hard it feels on him, than have him running in with the sheep. I have a shotgun license application on my desk at the moment as our local irresponsible puppy farming dog owner's "stud wolf dog" got in with my sheep and killed one lamb and savaged two others, one of which has now died. Unlike yours though this animal was human aggressive as the policemen and vet who came to help me all found out. Having been left to keep the dog off my sheep for six hours and then being told to hand it back to the owners if I ever find another dog in my sheep again I will shoot- as authorised to do by the police on this occasion. What I'd really like to shoot are the dog owners who allowed their dog to go unhandled and untrained, let alone unconfined resulting in a day's killing spree not just of my animals but others in the village too. The dogs live a hundred yards from a primary school - the only thing that saved the rest of my sheep and lambs was that they were herded into a pen and stopped running (and I stood between the dog and them and have rarely been so scared in all my life), imagine trying to tell a group of five year olds to stop running when a wolf lookalike is chasing them. It could have been an utter disaster.
Sorry, gone rather off what I started to say which is thank goodness for people like you who take responsibilty and want to get the problem sorted.

btw it might be a good idea to let the farmer know what happened to his sheep - even if you ring anonymously and tell him you saw "someone's" dog in there so that he can have a good check on them for any stress-related problems.
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God thats awful, my uncle lost 6 ewes who were in lamb last year. He did shoot the dog which was mauling them, this was at 5pm he then found out from his neighbours the dog had been on the land all day, killing 7 more that belonged to his tennant. And the owners, who had left the dog loose all day had the gall to threaten him!!! Weren't laughing so much when the police showed up congratlating my uncle. How scary for you, it made me sick to my stomach seeing him after them.
I have rung the farmer who owns the feild and rather cowardly said I saw 'something' spooking his sheep. I know its a cop out but hopefully none have been injured, but he can still check them. I am just so furious with him, he came back so didn't scold him or anything but he's just been put in the kitchen and will be ignored till teatime... idiot spaniel.
 
tbh he was a good dog to come back, sheep must be so exciting from his point of view. Good luck with teaching him they are evil buggers to be avoided at all costs - I like the ram idea.

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This is what I was faced with. This is what happened when I tried to take a step towards the dog away from the sheep, which were in an open pen behind me. It was ten feet away, I'm not a doggy person and was actually on the phone to the police at the time. They were horrified by the noise it was making - which was why they despatched two officers to come and help!
 
I have a dog who would chase and probably kill sheep if he could, and trainers havent been able to address it. He is a rescue chap. We have sheep here of our own.

But even with that, we have never once had him chasing our or anyone elses sheep, because we make sure he is never ever off the lead except in securely (4 feet plus with no top to jump up onto) fenced empty field of our own.


I guess my point is that the first priority is that your dog is alive and so are the sheep, and if that means a long line, so be it. You take the measures necessary to protect the sheep and the dog. It is possible to train a young dog out of sheep interest, a lot harder with an older dog.
 
I'm sorry, but if it was my dog it would never be off the lead anywhere there could be sheep. A lot of people will disagree and think it can be trained out of them, but once a chaser there is always the risk of them chasing again.

If you want to try an electric collar on your dog, that is your choice, but please try it on your arm first. Then decide if you are happy to give your dog that sort of pain. There is a reason they have been banned in Wales.
 
Glad to here you are trying to do something about it.Its not just the sheep that are injured or die in an attack its the ones that die of stress after!I can't understand why people take their dogs off the lead anyway.
Having had three goats killed by local dogs last year with the police running all over the place doing nothing cos they were scared of the darn things and the dogs eventually taken away and after a few months and two wasted court visits the owners were just fined(which won't be paid)and dogs returned (this being their second attack in a week) I have no sympathy and next time I will call out the local farmer to shoot the bloody things.As it is I have three goats less,wasted two days in court and not even had an apology!
 
BoolavogueDC said:
Not that Im advocating this but mine thought about it when we first moved onto the farm. They were thrown in with the ewes and ram and duly hammered by them and they don't do it any more.
Controversial, wont work for all types of dogs (mine are intent on chasing but haven't the stomach for killing anything) but worked for me and hugely better than a mauled sheep, a huge vet bill and/or a shot dog.
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Agree with this basically.

Sometimes you just gotta be cruel to be kind.

If your uncle is a sheep farmer then he may have some ideas/suggestions?
 
one of my dogs once chased a sheep up on Yorks moors when I first got him. I seeked advice from other working/racing dog owners and after considerable thought i did what was advised. he was muzzled and put into a sheep pen with 1 aggressive sheep at our local farm (farmers consent). Hence he has never chased sheep since he had a taster of what they will do back. Dramatic but as i live in the countryside and race/work my dogs could not risk owning a dog that chased sheep.
 
I found myself in the same situation but with cattle. It got scary very quickly as I was with the dog and my daughter at the same time.
I used an electric collar and wouldn't hesitate to use it again. A couple of zaps did the job and she never went near them again.
I understand the importance of correct use of these collars, but I personally don't see any welfare issue at all. This sort of behaviour needs nipping instantly in the bud as the consequenses could be disasterous.
I use an electric fence to control my horses and am happy to use a very mild shock to control this sort of dangerous behavour in my dog.
 
I don't understand why electric collars are banned in wales, dog haters wouldn't bother paying £180+ for one, they tend to beat dogs instead

I tested on my arm, and still milder than our electric fence. I used one to stop my dog disappearing down a footpath and onto the road.

They work very well, and the best thing is they don't associate it with you, like scolding them. Instead you can be the good guy and offer sympathy and praise them for coming back to you.
 
I have always found that shooting sheep worryers with bird shot worked well. A salutory lesson to the dog but a massive vets bill to the owner.
 
CaveCanem said:
Wolf my hoop, that's a GSDxHusky or some such, and an ugly one to boot...wonder how much owner is getting per stud, I am sure owner could afford compo?
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Yup, that's about the long and the short of it, she's using the cross to breed "wolf dogs" or "mini wolfs". To be fair she did offer to replace the lamb "provided I was keeping the sheep legally" wtf! The trouble is I don't think the ewe who lost her five week old baby would exactly accept a replacement. The owner also offered to replace my hens when another of her stud dogs, together with a bitch that was visiting a different stud dog (different breed entirely), came to my yard and killed three a couple of years ago. I've always wondered what the outcome of that was, whether the puppies came out pure bred or cross Westie/Lhasa.

Sadly the owner is a serial offender in not looking after her dogs. Purely coincidentally I had a phone call from a purchaser of one of the puppies. She'd been in contact with me previously about an entirely different matter (she's from a hundred miles away) and had written down my first name and the village and also the dog owner's first name and the village. The dog owner and I share a name! When she wanted to complain about the puppy's problems she rang and said "Is that "Dee", it's about C, she has lots of problems and is really ill" I panicked. Weirdly my daughter and her puppy also share a name and my daughter was in her first term at Uni so I was very very confused. Apparently they had worries about the puppy when they saw the conditions it was kept in but felt they couldn't leave the poor thing behind.
 
Dee O'Dorant said:
Yup, that's about the long and the short of it, she's using the cross to breed "wolf dogs" or "mini wolfs". To be fair she did offer to replace the lamb "provided I was keeping the sheep legally" wtf! The trouble is I don't think the ewe who lost her five week old baby would exactly accept a replacement. The owner also offered to replace my hens when another of her stud dogs, together with a bitch that was visiting a different stud dog (different breed entirely), came to my yard and killed three a couple of years ago. I've always wondered what the outcome of that was, whether the puppies came out pure bred or cross Westie/Lhasa.

Sadly the owner is a serial offender in not looking after her dogs. Purely coincidentally I had a phone call from a purchaser of one of the puppies. She'd been in contact with me previously about an entirely different matter (she's from a hundred miles away) and had written down my first name and the village and also the dog owner's first name and the village. The dog owner and I share a name! When she wanted to complain about the puppy's problems she rang and said "Is that "Dee", it's about C, she has lots of problems and is really ill" I panicked. Weirdly my daughter and her puppy also share a name and my daughter was in her first term at Uni so I was very very confused. Apparently they had worries about the puppy when they saw the conditions it was kept in but felt they couldn't leave the poor thing behind.
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Poor you Dee what a nightmare to have to live near that disgraceful state of affairs. That purchaser is part of the reason they get to carry on with their irresponsibility.

Cant believe the comment about 'legals' when their dog has just killed your sheep. :-OOOOO the nerve of it. I hate the idea of shooting a dog but I think I would make an exception in your neighbours case, and I would make sure there was a bit of wool in the dog's mouth when inspected. Trouble is, people like her will probably just go out and get another and learn nothing.
 
Oh no, poor you. Thank goodness he did no physical damage. Have you been back since to see the sheep and they do suffer stress easily and could have a reaction days later?

You could go to your uncles, put you dog on a very long, light lead and go in the sheep field. When he runs off to them you have control to be firm with him and put him straight. I'd keep doing this until he's not bothered by them. But i would have it in the back of your mind that he's done it once before with you and instincs may hit in once again.

Good luck
 
Buds_mum said:
I will contact his behaviourist again, unfortunatly he is tallying up the strikes against his name (first two came from biting my step father rather hard!).

Needless to say he will be staying on the lead, unless we are in a totally sheep free zone (ie. the beach). BoolavogueDC this worked with your dogs? It'd have to be something like this or the electric collar (which I would want professional help with) as I think he's too bloody braindead to understand proper training, he gets defensive and aggressive when you tell him 'no' (due to being beaten we understand) so we have to use positive reinforcement training and distraction techniques. Geeesh rescuing a dog is all very well but i seem to of got a really special one!!!
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While i have every sympathy with you, rescuing a dog isnt easy, the electric collar scenario might work, but he's also a biter of humans, this dog wouldnt be off a lead anywhere but in a secure area if it were mine, unless he comes to call outwith a livestock situation, i wouldnt take the chance of the biting someone else.
 
Buds_mum said:
Needless to say he will be staying on the lead, unless we are in a totally sheep free zone (ie. the beach). BoolavogueDC this worked with your dogs?
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Yes, however each dog is an individual and it's hard to say how it would go for yours. However, my texel ram split the other's skull open this summer, so they are quite able to take care of themselves, provided you are close on hand to remove dog if he turns nasty.

My bigger terrier is quite opinionated and argumentative but even he knows when he's beat and these sheep are BIG and penned in to a small space with about 30 of them, he palled rather quickly and we had to rescue him out from under them. Lil, the smaller more obliging terrier just flattened herself against the pen door and hoped it'd be over soon. In my case yes it worked perfectly. They keep a wide berth now.
 
Whatever you decide to do re: training, its worth having a rule that the dog is always on the lead when you are in someone else's land (even if no livestock appear to be present) in the period running up to lambing (Dec-April). It is amazing how dips in the land/tree clumps can hide a flock of sheep. Even being barked at and threatened can cause the sheep to lose the lambs, not physically attacking doesnt mean they arent 'worrying' them.

Outside that time always on the lead where any livestock are visible.

And if you dont think the training has been 101% effective, on a lead the rest of the time/places too.
 
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