Dog decided to start legging it. wwyd?

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Brief back story, terrier is 9 months neutered boy, been up at the yard with me since 12 weeks with no problems. Very rarely on a lead, free runs when I do jobs, comes up with me when I school and crated when I hack. So far so good. We had a few problems with a regular walker who allowed their similar age setter to burst into our yard and play with my dog who then started following this dog until I could catch him. He goes completely deaf even with bribery. I've been doing loads of recall practice, on his own he is amazing but in the last week he has been a nightmare running off to the footpath 2 fields away to follow dogs. I can see him running and he just ignores me. Every time I turn my back he is gone and I can't get close enough to tell him off, I have to stick to the happy good dog voice and reward when he deigns to return. As he can't be trusted I have to tie him which then makes him worse as he won't come back in case I tie him up again and as he is running less he is hyper. Not sure what to do, my lovely well behaved hound is being a serious ***!
 
I appreciate that, I was looking for a few further recall tips for selective hearing mutts. Lead is fine for now but long term I want to train it out but this is my first dog of my own and first terrier and I want to get it right :-)
 
Agree, keep him on a lead, flexi or long line, don't set him up to fail and work a bit harder yourself to get the energy off him and train and engage him rather than leaving him to his own devices and getting frustrated when he wants to do something more interesting.

This is a common age for dogs to begin behaving like this even though they may have seemed perfect as younger pups.

You say you crated him when you hacked, I would crate him when you can't watch him, rather than tie him up.

If you chase or mean as if to tell him off, he will of course not want to return.

Essentially, and I don't mean this to get at you, but this is the way the dog will be thinking, you have taught him that you are boring and he has to entertain himself while you do your horsey stuff.
Then when he does entertain himself and has way more fun chasing other dogs and bogging off, which is much more fun than what you are offering, you get frustrated and curtail him. You need to teach him that you are the centre of his world and the bearer of all good things.
Until then you will never get a recall so you need to work on that first, it begins at home.

Personally speaking I never give free access to food or toys - they are only produced when the dog is working for me and with me - if he knows he is going to get dinner and ball whatever way he behaves, why would he do as I ask? Even if that is a 'sit' before he is fed.
Balls and toys only come out when he is behaving in the way I want and he plays with ME and he carries the toy for ME, not something to bog off with and chew to bits. I am part of the play and part of the feeding regime so he wants to stay with me that bit more.

Also your dog is a terrier, bred to run and hunt for hours so you also have a lot of genetics to override.
 
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Thanks, back to basics I guess. He was getting lots of play with me, chasing ropes etc and then we go off to school and he plays in the hedge. I had attempted an outflanking manouvere yesterday when he kept looking up at me then pretending I wasn't there whilst I was doing a happy please come here dance routine to get his attention. He barely even wants his ball to play fetch.
As a long line do you just use a fine rope? I don't want anything too heavy on his collar. Or would a harness be better?
 
Our spaniel has a bit of a tendancy to chase after other dogs if he's not otherwise distracted.
I've found that you have to pay attention every second to what they're doing and what they're focused on. Then redirect their focus back to you when it looks like they may be getting focused on taking off after the other dogs. Found it was easiest to start doing this calling the dog's name, asking it to sit and then rewarding it with a treat - win-win situation, you have control of the dog, haven't had to chase it anywhere because it never decided to race off, and the dog gets a sweet!

I've found that you really have to be paying attention to the dog though - there's only a couple of seconds when they're thinking about going which you have to distract them. If you're not paying attention or leave it too late then he'll be gone.
Had a friend who I suggested this to, who replied that she can't be paying attention to her dog all the time. My response to that was that if that's the case, it needs to be on a lead.

Hope this helps!
 
You get more control with a collar but use a harness if you are worried about boinking his neck. (I think they can learn a valuable lesson with a boink on the neck but each to their own!!!)

I just used to use old lunge lines.

As you say, back to basics and don't be afraid of having to go back to basics a few more times, not all dogs learn the same and some of them need more help than others.
My dog learned from an early age that food came from me, my hand or my pocket, not a bowl. Same with a ball - I bring that out to play.
Don't get me wrong, he still has his moments! But if we see a dog, I get the ball out and have a play, so he makes the connection hopefully - dog..look at mum...ball.

You can also try hiding, running or walking away etc, isolating the dog. While it is important to act positive, don't go overboard or the dog will feel that as pressure and still feel inclined to stay away.

I heard a good thing the other day 'it's not enough to pretend you are not angry with the dog' - they pick up the tiniest vibes and are master readers of body language - if you are in any way grumpy or frustrated, the dog will pick it up right away even if you are doing a song and dance routine.


Also agree with Sam - there's a brief window in which to catch attention and give the dog something to do/think about/occupy it, once they are off, it's too late and you are just the Grinch, ending the game.
 
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Echo sams point- my lab is dog obsessed if he sees another dog on a walk if i don't spot that within about 3 seconds he is gone- slowly thanks to stop whistle training and pretending to throw a dummy down he tends to spin and wait for command but this is a year of gun dog training, we still only stop him 50%of time depending how quick we are.
I would train a stop whistle and then throw a toy near you then give reward when he brings toy back. So he associates good with it.
I wish i could use food rewards for training it would make life so much easier!
 
Thanks for all the tips, we shall start afresh tomorrow. Hopefully our progress will not be dented with said walkers hysterical setter launching into my yard followed by owner cooing that he loves horses as he jumps up at my stable doors and horses! Its like my dogs dream come true hence his desire to follow this particular dog wherever it goes.
 
My male lurcher was a lovely puppy but at 9 months turned into a horrid teenager! His recall had been spot on then overnight he took to standing 50' away, considering his options. I know it's not well thought of but all the 'lurcher people' I talked to recommended getting some really good treats! :) So I got the things he REALLY loved and he ONLY got them on walks for recall. (My dogs don't get treats for nothing anyway.) He's got a great recall now, even off rabbits (he couldn't care less about other dogs) and picnics. :)

BUT, as above, my dogs are never loose when I can't supervise them. They come to work with me but are never out when I'm teaching, riding etc. I know that's controversial and lots of people have dogs that cheerfully hang about. I'm sure I'd feel differently if I had labs or other more 'user friendly' dogs but mine can't help being what they are. I have the back of the car set up for them with a grill and that's where they stay unless I can watch them. I know you have your own place so it's a different situation but it does my head in the number of places I go where people's dogs are constantly bogging off, in with the horses, underfoot etc.

It's tricky with your dog's Bad Influence friend but if you keep at it he'll come around. :)
 
Have you tried taking him somewhere safe and properly hiding from him? If that's not feasible what about taking him to a decent gundog trainer, who are experts at getting a recall from lively spaniels :)
 
I'd be having serious words with the setter owner. It's not acceptable for her dog to be bursting into the yard: maybe tell her the horses aren't good with unknown dogs: a kick to the head could be fatal :(
 
Oh, I've tried everything. She didn't control the last one but this one is worse, chased my cat round, chased the neighbours sheep badly and is a pita round the horses. So frustrating to catch it, throw it out, drag my dog away so Im the bad one whilst explaining it needs to be kept away from my horses. Sadly she has a hide like a rhino and just keeps yelling let them play. Think I've just got to crack the recall with mine and get super cross with walker.
 
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