Dog deliberatly run over by police...

Think if it was my family in the car that were driving towards the dog and someone had taken evading action which had resulted in a fatal collision and the loss of my family then I would be glad if the other option was the death of a dog. It seems a bit bizarre to run it over though, I wonder why they couldn't have done a rolling road block, to get the traffic to stop while they tried to catch it another way. I suspect it was lack of resources available at the time, and someone had to make a snap decision.

But where would they draw the line? Would they run over a sheep, or a cow, or a horse in order to stop in. Surely the same scenario applies - an animal loose and capable of causing danger, not necessarily with its own actions, but by the reactions of the drivers on the road at the time.

I expect the reason it bit the police officer was because it was panic stricken and terrified. As destroying it goes, they couldn't really lean out the window with a syringe of blue juice whilst it ran besides the police car.

I don't know of the A55 at 3am in the morning is particuarly busy or not, I should think it would be full of lorry drivers trying to make an early start and avoid the rush hour.
 
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applecart look at the time of the incident, I doubt a rolling block would have been necessary at 3am! Presumably it belonged to the local hunt - no mention of trying to contact them or an experienced dog handler
 
Lanky Loll said:
Are they seriously trying to say that at 3am there was that much traffic on the road that the dog was that big a danger?? Just appalling regardless
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Yes this was my feeling TBH, If a member of the public were to deliberatly run over an animal they would be charged and hauled into court, I don't feel that just because it was a police officer that they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. I would however assume it wasn't as clear cut as the story would have us believe but whatever the outcome it should be investigated
 
Lanky Loll said:
applecart look at the time of the incident, I doubt a rolling block would have been necessary at 3am! Presumably it belonged to the local hunt - no mention of trying to contact them or an experienced dog handler
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I think time was of the essence, by the sound of it lorries were swerving to avoid the dog. They can only allot so much time before someone may have got seriously injured or killed. Sad for the owner of the dog, and the dog itself of course.
 
I would rather a dog was run over than a human get injured or killed in a traffic accident. We weren't there but I would think there was a very good reason why they had to take this course of action.
 
Michen said:
I would rather a dog was run over than a human get injured or killed in a traffic accident. We weren't there but I would think there was a very good reason why they had to take this course of action.
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A fox hound is a huge animal, they probably weigh about 12 stone and can do tremendous damage in the event of a collision. We came home one evening and found three running around in our field, they then set off down the lane at twilight. Presumably they and this one were owned by a hunt, since it is generally accepted that you can't rehome them - so where were they? The responsibility lies with them at the end of the day. Having knocked down a cat one evening (it wasn't killed, but ran off - I felt worse than if I'd killed it outright) I can imagine the police officers involved must have felt dreadful about it.
 
I can't imagine it weighs anywhere near 12 stone, my mastiff weighs 11 stone and he's a beast. If it was anywhere near that size it would not have been safe to drive over it, I witnessed my mum's neighbours DDB get hit by 3 cars on the bounce on a very busy main road which resulted in 2 of them being write offs and the dog lived to tell the tale (granted she did require extensive surgery but still she lived)
 
Presumably the police are exempt from any animal welfare laws (imagine what they'd do to Jo Public if he did this), and spend the rest of their time chasing around trying to run down loose deer, badgers and foxes.
 
My thoughts were they did exactly the right thing, had it been a horse or any other large livestock then im sure they would have shot it as they did to two horses a while ago when they were loose on roads, but this was probably the quickest, reliable way of ensuring a quick death, im sure in the event that it had not been killed outright then they would have shot it to prevent further suffering, or got it straight to a vet.

Yes it was early hours but a car and lorry had already swerved to avoid the dog and there were probably many more lorries on the road as they try to make the journeys by night and miss rush hour. It is so easy to turn over a lorry or jackknife one when swerving at speed, imagine the damage this could cause.

It only takes thinking of the alternate headline for this to prove the actions to be the right ones.

5 Vehicle pile up as lorry swerves to avoid loose dog.
I would hate to be the owner of a dog causing that and would much rather the police had dispatched it safely.
 
Templebar said:
My thoughts were they did exactly the right thing, had it been a horse or any other large livestock then im sure they would have shot it as they did to two horses a while ago when they were loose on roads, but this was probably the quickest, reliable way of ensuring a quick death, im sure in the event that it had not been killed outright then they would have shot it to prevent further suffering, or got it straight to a vet.

Yes it was early hours but a car and lorry had already swerved to avoid the dog and there were probably many more lorries on the road as they try to make the journeys by night and miss rush hour. It is so easy to turn over a lorry or jackknife one when swerving at speed, imagine the damage this could cause.

It only takes thinking of the alternate headline for this to prove the actions to be the right ones.

5 Vehicle pile up as lorry swerves to avoid loose dog.
I would hate to be the owner of a dog causing that and would much rather the police had dispatched it safely.
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I can't believe this is up for debate!
What if the dog had changed direction before impact, if they hadn't hit it square etc?
Not all police carry guns, so they would have had to wait for the appropriate response unit to finish it off
Fair enough human lives over dogs but I just can't believe there were no alternatives to running the dog over
 
Lanky Loll said:
I can't believe this is up for debate!
What if the dog had changed direction before impact, if they hadn't hit it square etc?
Not all police carry guns, so they would have had to wait for the appropriate response unit to finish it off
Fair enough human lives over dogs but I just can't believe there were no alternatives to running the dog over
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Yes there was that risk, they probably had tried alternatives, but as you very rightly pointed out it was 3am how long would it have taken to get vet/gun unit/dog unit/rspca/local hunt there any one of them could easily have taken longer than an hour and what happens in the mean time i'm sure the dog isn't just going to sit and wait.


I would also like to ask what you would do should you hit an animal with your car that you do not kill.
 
Templebar said:
Yes there was that risk, they probably had tried alternatives, but as you very rightly pointed out it was 3am how long would it have taken to get vet/gun unit/dog unit/rspca/local hunt there any one of them could easily have taken longer than an hour and what happens in the mean time i'm sure the dog isn't just going to sit and wait.


I would also like to ask what you would do should you hit an animal with your car that you do not kill.
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Having picked up an injured duck only a few weeks ago the answer to that one was take it swiftly to someone that could despatch it more swiftly than I. For a dog the nearest vet of course, but then I wouldn't have been aiming at it in the first place and that is my objection!
 
Michen said:
I would rather a dog was run over than a human get injured or killed in a traffic accident. We weren't there but I would think there was a very good reason why they had to take this course of action.
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Agree ^^ if said dog had coursed an accident with lives lost there would be outrage by the family. The police can't do right for doing wrong.
Best call in my mind
 
I think the police both in the UK and elsewhere need to have strict routines in order for dealing better with situations such as this. These routines seem nonexistent.

Deliberately running a living, moving animal over is unacceptable as a method of euthanasia. You have no way to guarantee a swift end. It is also an unacceptable way to stop an animal without the intent to kill.

It is not long since I read about a dog being sat on and physically strangled to death by police instead of using firearms. The dog may have been aggressive but that is not humane whichever way you look at it.
 
Lanky Loll said:
Having picked up an injured duck only a few weeks ago the answer to that one was take it swiftly to someone that could despatch it more swiftly than I. For a dog the nearest vet of course, but then I wouldn't have been aiming at it in the first place and that is my objection!
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But would you stop and pick up a duck on a busy duel carriageway, off course not as its to dangerous and could course a nasty accident like the dog. Thankfully nobody was seriously injured but it could have ended up that way very quickly. If the headline was different " 2 person lose life due to lose dog" this thread would be totally different and asking why the dog wasnt dealt with.
 
thatsmygirl said:
But would you stop and pick up a duck on a busy duel carriageway, off course not as its to dangerous and could course a nasty accident like the dog. Thankfully nobody was seriously injured but it could have ended up that way very quickly. If the headline was different " 2 person lose life due to lose dog" this thread would be totally different and asking why the dog wasnt dealt with.
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I stopped on a busy B road near a staggered cross roads and was on the opposite side of the road so wasn't the simplest manouver. I've also seen people stop on the motorway and on dual carriageways to rescue animals in distress so yes I probably would stop. There are ways to do these things without risking life and limb or causing an accident. All of which is completely irrelevant in this case.

The facts as far as we know them are that the officers involved thought it was appropriate to pursue a dog down the road at high speed to run it over on the chance that they could hit it hard enough to kill it out right... seriously... you think that was the right thing to do?
 
amandaco2 said:
Don't tend to mow down animals on purpose really
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Yes but what about the poor rabbit you could not avoid, or are you the swerve/screech to a halt one that causes the accidents.

My own answer if when I saw a pheasant hit by the vehicle in front and did not kill outright, I aimed for it and then turned round to ensure that it was dead.
 
I won't be drawn into the rights and wrongs of the incident, but being involved with regulatory services I can assure you that at 3am in the morning there are no resources for road closure, marksmen, animal welfare officers for something as minor as a loose dog. The police on duty will have one remit and that is to protect human life.

Lets face it, your granny can be burgled and terrified and the Police might visit in 48 hours if she is lucky. Unless you are employed in public service/front line service you really have no idea what is going on with resources and staff availability. I can sum it up for you - no resources and no staff. The cuts in public service have gone beyond the pale now and this incident is one of many that are dealt with badly.
 
Lanky Loll said:
I stopped on a busy B road near a staggered cross roads and was on the opposite side of the road so wasn't the simplest manouver. I've also seen people stop on the motorway and on dual carriageways to rescue animals in distress so yes I probably would stop. There are ways to do these things without risking life and limb or causing an accident. All of which is completely irrelevant in this case.

The facts as far as we know them are that the officers involved thought it was appropriate to pursue a dog down the road at high speed to run it over on the chance that they could hit it hard enough to kill it out right... seriously... you think that was the right thing to do?
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Yes but that is my opinion, obviously not yours and that is all I have to say on it.
 
Templebar said:
Yes but what about the poor rabbit you could not avoid, or are you the swerve/screech to a halt one that causes the accidents.

My own answer if when I saw a pheasant hit by the vehicle in front and did not kill outright, I aimed for it and then turned round to ensure that it was dead.
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I am always turning around in the road and going back to finish the job off, if there is a dying rabbit or bird. I hate the thought of something lying in the road suffering, waiting to die. And even if I see something squashed in the road I will run my tyre over it 'just in case'. My partner takes the mickey and says the rabbit is probably minding its own business and doing a spot of sunbathing and there I am ruthlessly mowing it down. :)

I saw a cat not long back been hit by a car and left. Was already dead, but hadn't been dead for long. Someone came out of their house having claimed to have seen it hit by someone that drove off. I scooped it onto one of those newspaper collection box lids which was on the verge by the house where it had been hit. Its bottom jaw was broken, other than that no marks on it. I put my finger on its eyeball but no reflex so knew it had gone. I was going to take it to the vets to see if it had a microchip but the lady who had come out said she thought she knew whose it was. This is the second time I've stopped for a cat shortly after it has been run over.

Its amazing how many people wouldn't stop when they see an animal in plight. I once saw a dog running along a verge with traffic whizzing past it. Managed to pull the car over, put on my hazard lights, and get in front of the dog which finally shuddered to a halt in my arms. Then I grabbed its collar and rang the number on the tag. Cars were driving past seeing me sat on the verge with a subdued dog and not even slowing down to ask if I wanted any help, or if I needed the vet (by this time it has gone into submissive mode lying on its back with its legs in the air so to those that didn't know any different it looked I had run over the dog).


I always have the numbers of the animal wildlife rescue associations in our area so that if I see a half dead badger (couldn't run that over) or a stag (we have plenty of those by us and I have nearly clipped one before now) then I can call them out to despatch said animal.
 
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A few things to consider about this incident and the rights or wrongs of it...
A while back the same police force , in nearly the same stretch of road put in a rolling road block to stop traffic hitting a swan( could have been goose) ! This was in daylight time, so would have caused quite a Q.
They also tazered a sheep....
At 3 am that road is not at all busy, unless the Irish ferry has just docked, and it hadn't .. They just took the easy way out... It would only have taken one more traffic car to do a rolling stop of traffic,
I am of the opinion that they would have needed permission to "run it over" had they not killed it outright, and it was injured I do like to think they would have taken it to a vet... Of course human life comes before a dogs, but bear in mind that dog would have been so scared and confused, it was probably trying to find a way to get to a safe place, the full facts will come to light eventually , whose dog it was, was it from a hunt? Private owned? Lost? Or had it been abandoned on side of road.?
 
Templebar said:
Yes but what about the poor rabbit you could not avoid, or are you the swerve/screech to a halt one that causes the accidents.

My own answer if when I saw a pheasant hit by the vehicle in front and did not kill outright, I aimed for it and then turned round to ensure that it was dead.
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applecart14 said:
I am always turning around in the road and going back to finish the job off, if there is a dying rabbit or bird. I hate the thought of something lying in the road suffering, waiting to die. And even if I see something squashed in the road I will run my tyre over it 'just in case'. My partner takes the mickey and says the rabbit is probably minding its own business and doing a spot of sunbathing and there I am ruthlessly mowing it down. :)

I saw a cat not long back been hit by a car and left. Was already dead, but hadn't been dead for long. Someone came out of their house having claimed to have seen it hit by someone that drove off. I scooped it onto one of those newspaper collection box lids which was on the verge by the house where it had been hit. Its bottom jaw was broken, other than that no marks on it. I put my finger on its eyeball but no reflex so knew it had gone. I was going to take it to the vets to see if it had a microchip but the lady who had come out said she thought she knew whose it was. This is the second time I've stopped for a cat shortly after it has been run over.

Its amazing how many people wouldn't stop when they see an animal in plight. I once saw a dog running along a verge with traffic whizzing past it. Managed to pull the car over, put on my hazard lights, and get in front of the dog which finally shuddered to a halt in my arms. Then I grabbed its collar and rang the number on the tag. Cars were driving past seeing me sat on the verge with a subdued dog and not even slowing down to ask if I wanted any help, or if I needed the vet (by this time it has gone into submissive mode lying on its back with its legs in the air so to those that didn't know any different it looked I had run over the dog).


I always have the numbers of the animal wildlife rescue associations in our area so that if I see a half dead badger (couldn't run that over) or a stag (we have plenty of those by us and I have nearly clipped one before now) then I can call them out to despatch said animal.
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In those circumstances I personally think you are both 100% doing the right thing and that is admirable, you are PREVENTING an animal from suffering but these police men in this situation are the ones that have CAUSED an animal to suffer, this wasn't a fox or a rabbit that needed culling either this was a dog who may well have been a pet (we don't know)absolutely terrified not knowing where it was and running for its life!
 
ROMANY 1959 said:
A few things to consider about this incident and the rights or wrongs of it...
A while back the same police force , in nearly the same stretch of road put in a rolling road block to stop traffic hitting a swan( could have been goose) ! This was in daylight time, so would have caused quite a Q.
They also tazered a sheep....
At 3 am that road is not at all busy, unless the Irish ferry has just docked, and it hadn't .. They just took the easy way out... It would only have taken one more traffic car to do a rolling stop of traffic,
I am of the opinion that they would have needed permission to "run it over" had they not killed it outright, and it was injured I do like to think they would have taken it to a vet... Of course human life comes before a dogs, but bear in mind that dog would have been so scared and confused, it was probably trying to find a way to get to a safe place, the full facts will come to light eventually , whose dog it was, was it from a hunt? Private owned? Lost? Or had it been abandoned on side of road.?
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In light of this I would think it's sounding increasingly likely the dog was deliberatly run over soley in revenge for biting (which probobly only happened because it was scared anyway!)
 
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