Dog driving me mad, advice and a slap please :)

Two suggestions - no, I'm serious. Forget the crate and get her a companion. And, leave something of yours that you wear with her - in the d**n crate if that's how it's got to be, or, as I was taught many years ago, lining the crack at the bottom of whatever door you shut behind you (the theory being that if she can smell you, you've never left). It worked brilliantly with two of ours over the years.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm ded against crates in most cases.
 
RoseGrey said:
I bought a Babyden from Mothercare when my kids were smaller and I kept it. It is fab for making a caged area rather than a small crate.
Mine is 6ft by 3ft for my dog and only used when we go out and leave her alone. They are made up of sections approx 1 ft wide, fully adaptable. Total God send IMO !!
Second hand ones will be cheap as they are metal (chew proof!) and sturdy!

May be worth a look ? !! :)
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Yep, u could try the above and try upping the space a bit, suppose u would soon see if she is stressing if the bed is ripped up.
I think me mam has one for the recovering large greyhounds (buts it the height of me), but the pups used to try and jump the smaller ones, them knowing the top was open, esp as their feed went in this way:D and one was hurt this way, but as Betsy is a bit older she may have moe sense:D
Worth a try.
 
Rose Folly said:
Two suggestions - no, I'm serious. Forget the crate and get her a companion. And, leave something of yours that you wear with her - in the d**n crate if that's how it's got to be, or, as I was taught many years ago, lining the crack at the bottom of whatever door you shut behind you (the theory being that if she can smell you, you've never left). It worked brilliantly with two of ours over the years.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm ded against crates in most cases.
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LML is looking for a companion dog, but she needs her own/non rented home which she is in the process of looking for and of course the right dog:D:p

I personally would not forget the crate at this age though, but we have had the "great crate debate":D IMO they are a god sent for younger dogs till they reach maturity but we all have our difference of opinons and all just as valid as the next im sure LML will wean the advice she needs.
 
Rose Folly said:
Sorry for the rant, but I'm ded against crates in most cases.
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I've never been a heavy user of them, but do use one for the car and to calm down a very hyper female.

I'd love to know why, despite not really using them much or having not done any formal crate training, my male will break my arm dragging me to get back into his when we are travelling, or why, when it is in the house for some reason or another, he will put himself in it when he notices I am getting ready for bed :p
 
Cayla my dear... Did you just use the words 'Betsy' and 'more sense' in the same sentance?? It is obvious you haven't met her yet!

If upping exercise doesnt make things better for her I will look into some form of 'child container' lol.

I really think it is more of a case of her having a stress when I leave / when she realises I have gone than being unhappy in the crate in general.
 
CAYLA said:
LML is looking for a companion dog, but she needs her own/non rented home which she is in the process of looking for and of course the right dog:D:p
.
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I found the right bloomin house... they just havent actually built it yet:p I would love a companion dog for B, the circumstances all have to be right though or I will just end up collecting dogs.:rolleyes:
 
littlemisslauren said:
Cayla my dear... Did you just use the words 'Betsy' and 'more sense' in the same sentance?? It is obvious you haven't met her yet!

If upping exercise doesnt make things better for her I will look into some form of 'child container' lol.

I really think it is more of a case of her having a stress when I leave / when she realises I have gone than being unhappy in the crate in general.
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More reason to set the camera up then, and try and mimic bedtime if she settles then ok. can she see/hear u leave?
She could literally be doing what she is in the first 10 mins u go then settling and sleeping:D
You need to practice coming and going:p
 
Yeah she can see me go, I could sneak out the back I suppose??

Lots of things to try :)

This is why I love this place, I can come on crying because I messed the dog up somehow and come away with a whole list of different things to try and positive ways forward. :D
 
littlemisslauren said:
Yeah she can see me go, I could sneak out the back I suppose??

Lots of things to try :)

This is why I love this place, I can come on crying because I messed the dog up somehow and come away with a whole list of different things to try and positive ways forward. :D
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I don't think you messed her up - I think she's a sensitive dog who is reacting to your OH being gone and suddenly becoming more reliant on just one person and in turn having that person being inadvertently more reliant on her. Don't beat yourself up about it. There's plenty of great things that have been suggested here that you can try to get it sorted out :).
 
First thing I want to say LML is I dont think you are a cruel or evil pet owner, I can tell by the way you speak about your dog that you care dearly for her and of course you wouldnt be looking for advise on a forum unless you were trying to find a solution to the problem.
Ive work in animal welfare for many years and helped others find solutions to their dogs behavioural problems, so here im not pointing the finger and accusing you of anything im merely trying to help you. :)

As I stated before 9 hours during the day is far too long to crate a dog which is a year old. You will have found up till now she wouldnt have minded so much about being restraint to a small area but as dogs grow so do their curiosity and they want to be exploring and have room to move about a bit more. Look at the dimentions of your crate in comparison to your dog then put yourself in an equal space to what the dog has in the crate and stay there for 30 minutes, by then you will be bored stiff, imagine how your dog feels being there for 17 hours out of a 24 hour day.
I totally agree with what Rose Grey has sugested, corner off an area in a room with stair gates or kids pen etc as time goes by you can extend the area she is confined to. By now she should be house training and should know that chewing furniture is wrong, the cornered off area should be free of temptations like furniture etc till she gets used to having more room.
I think taking her to work a few days a week would be good too, get her used with other dogs and improve her socialisation skills (im not saying you have not socialised her but this would just add her social skills.
As I said Im not putting you down but I can pretty much guarentee you that if you crate her for less time she will infact grow mentally and become a calmer and happier dog. x
 
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A little update for you guys, I upped Bs morning walk to about 50 mins (from 20) this morning and there has been no destruction today!

Tried to make me leaving as similar to bedtime as I could too, I will continue on with other advice and practice coming and going :)

I was so scared to walk in the front door but she was scarily chilled.

I have said several times that she is not left for a 9 hour block of the day, she has at least half an hour break when I get home from work.

She is never crated for 17 hours out of 24, ever. I dont go to bed untill at least 1am and get up at 6am on work days (Major sleep issues!).

I am really grateful for the advice given, but I am not prepared to stop crating her. After today I am certain that it is me leaving her that is upsetting her.

If Betsy were calmer she would be dead. She is a very calm, lazy, sleepy dog.
 
Sorry but this is one of the reason I don't like crates.
If they are used I am a firm believer they should be phased out of the 'locked' phase,rather than this being seen as an end phase, to try and avoid locking the dog in for long stretches/even with a break. 7.30 to 4.30, with a half hour break to me is too long. Can you not leave the crate in a larger area using something such as the babygate system and gradually increase the area she is allowed into with good behaviour? Regardless of whether she is 'settled' now or not?
In horses there is a lot of thought that all these 'calm, love being stabled' horses who are stabled 24/7 have simply become acclimatised and there is no point in resisting. Not a state I am happy with inflicting on any animal and one I suspect is similar in many long-term crated dogs.
 
SusieT said:
Sorry but this is one of the reason I don't like crates.
If they are used I am a firm believer they should be phased out of the 'locked' phase,rather than this being seen as an end phase, to try and avoid locking the dog in for long stretches/even with a break. 7.30 to 4.30, with a half hour break to me is too long. Can you not leave the crate in a larger area using something such as the babygate system and gradually increase the area she is allowed into with good behaviour? Regardless of whether she is 'settled' now or not?
In horses there is a lot of thought that all these 'calm, love being stabled' horses who are stabled 24/7 have simply become acclimatised and there is no point in resisting. Not a state I am happy with inflicting on any animal and one I suspect is similar in many long-term crated dogs.
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My dog is not crated 24/ 7 though is she? She is crated a couple of days a week, hardly a 'long term crated dog'
 
SusieT said:
Sorry but this is one of the reason I don't like crates.
If they are used I am a firm believer they should be phased out of the 'locked' phase,rather than this being seen as an end phase, to try and avoid locking the dog in for long stretches/even with a break. 7.30 to 4.30, with a half hour break to me is too long. Can you not leave the crate in a larger area using something such as the babygate system and gradually increase the area she is allowed into with good behaviour? Regardless of whether she is 'settled' now or not?
In horses there is a lot of thought that all these 'calm, love being stabled' horses who are stabled 24/7 have simply become acclimatised and there is no point in resisting. Not a state I am happy with inflicting on any animal and one I suspect is similar in many long-term crated dogs.
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But Susie T, while horses in a natural state will live in wide open spaces and avoid small spaces like caves, wild canines will live in dens, especially when whelping as this is a secure space for them. They will find appropriate natural structures like caves, burrows of other creatures etc and use them. So you can't necessarily extrapolate from one species to the other.
 
So on a day that you are out, back for a 30min lunch break, and that you sleep your normal allocation of hours-what is the total time in a crate for her?
2 days a weeks, is till 100 days a year. Is there any reason you can't build her up to a bigger space?
Surely the ultimate aim of training a dog using a crate (aside from rescue safety situations which are hopefully temporary) is that you can then build up to having a dog who has this 'safe place' often mooted to 'hide' in and who is able to be left in a space without destruction?
 
I am following the extrapolation used earlier in the thread regarding horses stabled for their 'safety'. I am aware there are differences between the species.
 
The crate should be 'bed', I leave my dogs cage gate open all of the time and she comes and goes as she likes when we are home.
It is her 'safe' place, or den, away from kids and noise etc.
The gate only gets locked if she is left home alone which is once a week for a maximum of three hours.

It sounds like upping the walkies has had a good effect on her. :)
 
SusieT I agree whole heartedly with you and this is a prime example of how the crate is used in a wrong way. I used a crate with my young dog, she went in at night time and if she was in the crate through the day it was NEVER for longer than 2 hours. She is now 4 months old I have no need to crate her, in fact must get the damn thing out the livingroom! It sits with the door open but neither of my dogs go in it anymore because they have no desire to be confined and I have no need to confine them.
Over usage of a crate will in turn create problems in the dog, it becomes a form of jail, its also a lazy alternative to actually training your dog to respect the house, and correct behavioural problems.

Spudlet of course canines used caves when in the wild but that cave had an opening so the dog could escape at any time and they lived in packs.
Try confining a wild dog in a small place and it will go crazy in a very short space of time!
 
And Friesian, as mentioned, when my crate is in the house and left open, my dog will sleep in it through choice. He has never been shut in it, only when in the car, and when we are travelling he will make a beeline for it once his pee break/walkies are finished.

All dogs are different :)
 
CaveCanem said:
And Friesian, as mentioned, when my crate is in the house and left open, my dog will sleep in it through choice. He has never been shut in it, only when in the car, and when we are travelling he will make a beeline for it once his pee break/walkies are finished.

All dogs are different :)
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Well in your case the crate is being used in a kind manner, your dog is not shut in therefore see's it as a safe and pleasant place to sleep. dogs like to feel 'secure' not 'confined'.
As you dont lock your fully grown dog in a crate I am guessing you have taken the time to house train your dog and have corrected any destructive behavour, because of this you have no need to lock your dog in a cage.
 
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I would like to thank everyone again for advice but I won't be commenting again on this thread, I feel like I am slamming my head into a brick wall here.

Just to clarify a few things.... She goes in her crate by choice, it has never been used as a prison or punishment. I cant extend her area because I dont want to. She was perfectly happy with our routine untill OH started working away and she became clingy to me.

We are all entitled to our own opinions but I find it very patronising and narrow minded to be classed as a 'prime example' of using crates incorrectly.
 
friesian80 said:
Well in your case the crate is being used in a kind manner, your dog is not shut in therefore see's it as a safe and pleasant place to sleep. dogs like to feel 'secure' not 'confined'.
As you dont lock your fully grown dog in a crate I am guessing you have taken the time to house train your dog and have corrected any destructive behavour, because of this you have no need to lock your dog in a cage.
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I thought you were just ignorant, turns out you are a hell of a lot more than that:rolleyes:

I'm off to tell my dog that she should get out of her crate because it is a horrible scary prison, thought she is sleeping in there with the door open.

Jog on pet.
 
Ir other words you don't want to actually admit the amount of hours your dog is left and you are not prepared to think beyond locking the inconvenient dog away when you're out?
If she is so happy to be in when the door is open, then it should be her place to go chill when you're out, which enlarging the area gradually should not change.
Please don't get another dog to crate un neccessarily because it is handier for you.
Friesien-I believe CC has her dog in runs therefore crates aren't necessary inside, as he's only in under supervision, but I may be wrong.
 
My 2 choosing to sleep in the crate. It is actually just for the youngster but Buffy loves it in there too. Evie is nearly 3 and she is still shut in the crate at night, not because I haven't taken the time to train her but because the older bitch has poor eyesight, and it is better for her that Evie doesn't get in her space. I quite often have to drag Buffy out of the cage when I am shutting the door at bedtime.

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This thread kind of illustrates why I wouldn't post on here if I was having a problem with Henry any more. I have had a couple of issues recently and have debated asking for advice - but why bother when so many people seem to stand ready to slate? I'd rather work things out myself, with the aid of my trainer and another, less judgemental forum. A real shame when in other threads it remains possible to have a discussion, but I'd sooner not open myself up to a slating from the Peter Perfect Brigade.:(
 
friesian80 said:
As you dont lock your fully grown dog in a crate I am guessing you have taken the time to house train your dog and have corrected any destructive behavour, because of this you have no need to lock your dog in a cage.
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Actually, as Susie T mentions, I do keep my dog outside in a run, which a lot of people might consider 'locking in a cage' and have said so to my face.
I haven't had to house train or correct destructive behaviour because coming in the house is a treat for them and they know it is not the place to poo, or chew.
 
Spudlet said:
This thread kind of illustrates why I wouldn't post on here if I was having a problem with Henry any more. I have had a couple of issues recently and have debated asking for advice - but why bother when so many people seem to stand ready to slate? I'd rather work things out myself, with the aid of my trainer and another, less judgemental forum. A real shame when in other threads it remains possible to have a discussion, but I'd sooner not open myself up to a slating from the Peter Perfect Brigade.:(
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Quite :(
I have been quite upset by some of the replies on here, so I am gonna take a step back from it all for a bit.

If you want to know how many hours my dog is crated per day..... read my replies. Thanks again to everyone that has offered help :)
 
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