Dog Groomer has injured our puppy

[Cinnamontoast]

I was in a groomers the other day. The dog being groomed wasn't restrained in any way. It promptly fell off the table because the groomer was totally ignoring it. She did not subsequently mention this to the owner. It was a little dog, bichon, maybe, I dunno. She has also cut two dogs in the past couple of weeks. Just balancing out the whole thread

 

[SusieT]

pucciponi-I think you need to change your practices if your clients dogs are able to garrot themselves or slip over on such a regular basis... A groomer with the dog in full control (albeit restrained by a device) should have their hands on the dog and prevent such incidents. Just leaving them tethered in the bath is not a great idea!

s4sugar-as an xray invariably shows up very little and doesn't show the cord, it's actually money grabbing vets insisting on xray before mri that is the problem-mri will show if any changes you might see on xray (in the case of discs-unlikely to be picked up) are actually significant...
OP-if she is that sore something is going on, you will know better after the tests. Doesn't sound groomer related to me tbh, even holding a dog up by its tail for grooming shouldn't really do any damage!

 

[PucciNPoni]

pucciponi-I think you need to change your practices if your clients dogs are able to garrot themselves or slip over on such a regular basis... A groomer with the dog in full control (albeit restrained by a device) should have their hands on the dog and prevent such incidents. Just leaving them tethered in the bath is not a great idea!

!

Oh Susie, when I say it happens on a regular basis? I'm saying that even the most diligent of groomers can and do have mishaps. In a ten year grooming career I would say I have a pretty darn good safety record. If anything in fact, I'm a huge advocate for safety in my work place. I am also a huge advocate for keeping the professional grooming industry a professional, safe, one, keeping the groomers up to date with training and making sure the whole integrity of the industry is one that can be relied upon to give dogs a safer, happier grooming experience.

I don't have accidents on a regular basis like you like to imply. Sure, I had the young dog try to clothesline herself (garrott is not quite right) and I'm glad I had the safety measures in place that I did or it'd have been a completely different outcome. I don't have dogs slipping and falling - but it DOES happen. Elderly dogs, young nervous dogs, dogs that simply stand like a rigid statue but can't seem to keep their feet under them - spend some time in a grooming salon before you make comments like that please!

My point of using that as an example was to say that Yes, these things do and can happen - and I for one would always mention (or own up to) any mishap. So SuzieT, keep it in context please. You make it sound like my listing a few possibilities makes me a careless person. I do not for a single second think that there is a groomer out there that has been working for more than five minutes has not made a mistake or had an injury of some sort. And yes you are right that if an accident does occur, it is time to review what happened and how to prevent it from occurring again.

 

[PucciNPoni]

I was in a groomers the other day. The dog being groomed wasn't restrained in any way. It promptly fell off the table because the groomer was totally ignoring it. She did not subsequently mention this to the owner. It was a little dog, bichon, maybe, I dunno. She has also cut two dogs in the past couple of weeks. Just balancing out the whole thread

And that IS appalling. I've never once for a moment suggested that there was no way an accident (in and that case was pure negligence!!! and then to not even tell the owner is even more shocking to me) could have occurred.

How do you know the groomer cut dogs in the past two weeks? Sorry, just out of curiosity - do you work there? Are you a friend? What were the circumstances in which they were cut? Is the groomer new/inexperienced?

Believe me when I say I know for a fact there are some really *****E groomers out there - there is no regulation for the industry at present so anyone with a set of clippers can hang a shingle and call themselves a groomer. Regulation won't make a bad groomer good, and it would take some time before the system works. There are plenty of good experienced groomers out there who will resist change (ie having to pay for the licensing seems to be a bit stopping point) and there are some groomers that will slip through the cracks. But I do think that having a set of guidelines, where everyone is following the same code of conduct, the AWA is adhered to, etc etc, will make it generally a safer place for dogs. The good groomers won't change anything of what they're doing and will just see it as a "tax" on their business.

It will also mean that grooming itself will become more expensive. So price shoppers will be shocked when their low budget groomers either up their prices to afford to come in to line with the new regulation...or they will cease trading....or...they may just become cowboys and operate without the "license" so it will be very much a case of buyer beware.

Sorry, I'm prattling on a bit.

 

[alison247]

And changed her story when it was pointed out the mongrel was ok when picked up. I hope groomers in the area are able to access this page with her original post.
Sounds like the vets are on a money trip - MRI before x ray? - that has to be a first.

There is absolutely no excuse to be so rude.
Is it only acceptable if a pedigree dog was injured?
My assumption she has been injured by the dog groomer is that when I got her home she was shivering, which I put down to her being cold.
Any dog injured or not would wag its tail when seeing its owner.
My dog was dying of cancer and after a major op on deaths door still wagged his tail at me.
I did not come here for a rant. I came here to ask for advice re the dog groomer. I think she should have told me if she had to handle my puppy roughly or dropped her.
I would not want another dog injured this way!
I am not insured- silly me. I expect I will also be berated for that as well as buying a mongrel!

 

[Calcyle]

There is absolutely no excuse to be so rude.
Is it only acceptable if a pedigree dog was injured?
My assumption she has been injured by the dog groomer is that when I got her home she was shivering, which I put down to her being cold.
Any dog injured or not would wag its tail when seeing its owner.
My dog was dying of cancer and after a major op on deaths door still wagged his tail at me.
I did not come here for a rant. I came here to ask for advice re the dog groomer. I think she should have told me if she had to handle my puppy roughly or dropped her.
I would not want another dog injured this way!
I am not insured- silly me. I expect I will also be berated for that as well as buying a mongrel!

Actually, in a lot of cases, a slipped disc could render a dog physically incapable of wagging it's tail, which is the point they were making.

 

[twiggy2]

I refuse to pander to the puppy farm stupid names for mongrels trend and turn them away as I have found, having groomed professionally for over 30 years, that people who support poor breeding are not ones I want as clients. I don't apologise for this.

you would do be better to educate rather than belittle/insult -it would prove more beneficial for the dogs in the long term.

do you realise how many of these cross breeds are in rescue and are being homed by people who are educated and informed about puppy farming and are trying to put right some of the wrong that has been done. Do your tar all owners with the same brush?

OP whatever happened i hope things turn out for the best

 

[SusieT]

you used the word garrot first...yes they are always unintended but those are things that shouldnt happen (and I have spent time in grooming parlours..the mishaps you describe only happen with inadequate handling and shouldn't happen to clients dogs)

 

[s4sugar]

you would do be better to educate rather than belittle/insult -it would prove more beneficial for the dogs in the long term.

do you realise how many of these cross breeds are in rescue and are being homed by people who are educated and informed about puppy farming and are trying to put right some of the wrong that has been done. Do your tar all owners with the same brush?

OP whatever happened i hope things turn out for the best

Actually as I do rescue I get a lot and the people who have rescued tend to use x breed rather than silly names or are happy for their pet to be listed as Y x Z.
Why are so many in rescue? Because they are bred for a quick sale and people are told what they want to believe and then rarely get support from the person they purchased from. These idiots are the ones I turn away. They are often convinced their dog is a breed & cannot possibly have any health problems even when hopping on three legs or with eyes that reflect green & of course they don't need brushing or training.... until the people get fed up & hand them to rescue & go & buy the next fad puppy. Some people don't want to be educated. If they did they would not buy from dealers or without seeing Mum as so many do.
Rescued mutts are welcome -along with their owners.

The OP might like to check prices on the main refferal vet's site for Kent.

 

[twiggy2]

Actually as I do rescue I get a lot and the people who have rescued tend to use x breed rather than silly names or are happy for their pet to be listed as Y x Z.
Why are so many in rescue? Because they are bred for a quick sale and people are told what they want to believe and then rarely get support from the person they purchased from. These idiots are the ones I turn away. They are often convinced their dog is a breed & cannot possibly have any health problems even when hopping on three legs or with eyes that reflect green & of course they don't need brushing or training.... until the people get fed up & hand them to rescue & go & buy the next fad puppy. Some people don't want to be educated. If they did they would not buy from dealers or without seeing Mum as so many do.
Rescued mutts are welcome -along with their owners.

The OP might like to check prices on the main refferal vet's site for Kent. Their vets

you know many people buy these puppies and I agree are ill informed and have not done their research but then many of them choose to live with what they have taken on and dont make the same mistake again (many do it over and over again too) your posts just seem very judgemental/aggressive on this topic. Maybe a groomer that responds in the way you have may put people off taking these cross breeds to the groomers for fear of the reception they may receive?

 

[s4sugar]

you know many people buy these puppies and I agree are ill informed and have not done their research but then many of them choose to live with what they have taken on and dont make the same mistake again (many do it over and over again too) your posts just seem very judgemental/aggressive on this topic. Maybe a groomer that responds in the way you have may put people off taking these cross breeds to the groomers for fear of the reception they may receive?

There are plenty of places that take them & quite a few groomers around who produce them so it is their choice. Some of the biggest puppy farms offer grooming.

 

[twiggy2]

There are plenty of places that take them & quite a few groomers around who produce them so it is their choice. Some of the biggest puppy farms offer grooming.

so they just stay in the clutches of the people farming these dogs with no opportunity to be educated, sounds like a missed opportunity on to educate these people (nicely)

 

[s4sugar]

so they just stay in the clutches of the people farming these dogs with no opportunity to be educated, sounds like a missed opportunity on to educate these people (nicely)

The ones that won't use reasonable terminology e.g. poodle cross cocker don't want to be educated. Will be interesting how many insist on silly names when I do a free microchipping session in a couple of weeks. I will only put crossbreed in the breed section with YxZ in the description part. If they don't want this they can go elsewhere.

 

[GeeGeeboy]

Why is using the word 'mongrel' rude?! It is a description of a non-pedigree dog. As soon as S4sugar wrote the word mongrel she was accused of being rude! People need to accept the fact that these designer dogs are cross breeds/mongrels and you're only paying for a stupid, made-up name!!

 

[LovesCobs]

OP (Alison)
I think the vibe I'm getting is that you have decided it happened at the groomers and your vet has said she would have had to have been dropped on her back for this injury (backing up what you think).
what you have on this thread is advise from people who have experience of slipped discs that have not been caused in this way and also questions such as how do you travel your dog? sorry if I have missed this but I don't think you answered. I travel mine with crash tested harnesses (obviously not crash tested by me...) on the back seat. some people use crates in the back or have a dog gate type partition in the boot. some people do non and just get in. whichever you do an injury can occur (mine have come off the seat if I've breaked suddenly).
when the dog I was in charge of slipped a disc x-ray was the first port of call in case he had broken his back, no it didn't show up the slipped disc but it ruled out something else that could cause the issue. the MRI was the next step. this dog would not have wagged his tail, he was paralysed and couldn't wee or use his back legs at all, severe I know and it obviously isn't as severe for you.
but I am questioning your vets opinion. I know this dog was not dropped in any way and slipped on jumping off something.
this is why I suggested you get a second opinion from the vets who do the MRI if it will be done else where.
you haven't answered or commented on any of the other advise you have been given as far as I can see. we are trying to help you look at all angles. not every one has said it didn't happen at the groomers, you have had overall advise to help you move forward. please think about it. I hope you dog recovers, when is the scan booked for?

 

[ester]

I don't understand why you wouldn't at least ask the groomer if anything had happened as the dog wasn't right when you got it home even if you think she might not be truthful. If she is surely it would be better to know what happened as to what the subsequent injury might be??

 

[GeeGeeboy]

I don't understand why you wouldn't at least ask the groomer if anything had happened as the dog wasn't right when you got it home even if you think she might not be truthful. If she is surely it would be better to know what happened as to what the subsequent injury might be??

Exactly! Seems OP would just rather blame the groomer as obviously we are all untrustworthy people who drop dogs on their backs! I'm sick of people blaming their groomers for everything that goes wrong with their dogs!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

How do you know the groomer cut dogs in the past two weeks? Sorry, just out of curiosity - do you work there? Are you a friend? What were the circumstances in which they were cut? Is the groomer new/inexperienced?

I walked past and saw a dog fall and the girl who works with her told me its a regular occurrence and about the cuts and how customers rang up to complain after realising. Scary. The person offered to groom my dog, I refused!

 

[PucciNPoni]

I walked past and saw a dog fall and the girl who works with her told me its a regular occurrence and about the cuts and how customers rang up to complain after realising. Scary. The person offered to groom my dog, I refused!

Yikes - well that's not acceptable at all. And it's not a regular or normal occurrence in about 90% of the grooming establishments that I'm aware of. Most people when they cut or injure a dog it's traumatic for the groomer - way more than it ever usually is for the dog. I certainly wouldn't bring my dog there.

 

[Patterdale]

Why is using the word 'mongrel' rude?! It is a description of a non-pedigree dog. As soon as S4sugar wrote the word mongrel she was accused of being rude! People need to accept the fact that these designer dogs are cross breeds/mongrels and you're only paying for a stupid, made-up name!!

Totally agree!
Someone who was a supposed home for one of my puppies has just turned up with a 'Westiepoo.' I kid you not. The thing looks like something Disney forgot to draw at Halloween.

Oh and at £400 was more than twice the price of one of my lovely Patterdales!

 

[samlg]

The thing looks like something Disney forgot to draw at Halloween.


Brilliant!!

 

[GeeGeeboy]

The thing looks like something Disney forgot to draw at Halloween.


Ha ha ha!!

 

[Arizahn]

Actually as I do rescue I get a lot and the people who have rescued tend to use x breed rather than silly names or are happy for their pet to be listed as Y x Z.
Why are so many in rescue? Because they are bred for a quick sale and people are told what they want to believe and then rarely get support from the person they purchased from. These idiots are the ones I turn away. They are often convinced their dog is a breed & cannot possibly have any health problems even when hopping on three legs or with eyes that reflect green & of course they don't need brushing or training.... until the people get fed up & hand them to rescue & go & buy the next fad puppy. Some people don't want to be educated. If they did they would not buy from dealers or without seeing Mum as so many do.
Rescued mutts are welcome -along with their owners.

The OP might like to check prices on the main refferal vet's site for Kent.

Off topic but can you clarify the reflecting green eyes part please? I walk mine at night sometimes, and occasionally use a torch, sometimes we have yellow eyes, sometimes they look green. Not sure which is which - will check if it is important! I have one who is blind, but I haven't had him out with a torch so no idea how his reflect. Shall have to check.

Quick rant: feel free to ignore

As to the whole name thing, here in Northern Ireland, you have to have a dog licence. And you are not allowed to put mongrel any more. You used to be able to, but it has changed, since compulsary microchipping came in. You have to put either the breeds involved, the closest/best guess if unknown, or the popular name if known - eg cavapoo, etc. Breeders must microchip and register pups prior to rehoming. You are not allowed to home a dog without the new owner having a valid licence for it, and they cannot get one unless it has a chip! So with pups, the breeder gets to call them whatever they decide on the chip papers. Which must match the licence. Or else the licence is invalid.

As we are generally the test bed for new things, this may well happen on the mainland too. Sorry. Mongrel is being got rid of as a term, it appears. And as if you write say labrador cross collie, the council put labrador cross, well you are better putting borador, as at least no one can later say that your labrador collie cross could be a labrador pitbull cross, iyswim! We all remember Lennox after all.

You are also lucky if they put the correct name on your licence...of course any mistake is something that you can be fined for, even if the council staff are the ones who clearly cannot spell! My dog is not named Ferris. I am tired of correcting them. It is spelled out very clearly as Fenris, yet they consistently change it!

Rant over.

Hope your puppy is soon on the mend OP.

 

[Venevidivici]

As an aside,I imagine this new trend in recent years of crossing every other breed under the sun with a poodle has resulted in grooming/poodle parlour tills all over the country to be ringing with delight! Never have so many small pooches needed so many haircuts...

 

[PucciNPoni]

As an aside,I imagine this new trend in recent years of crossing every other breed under the sun with a poodle has resulted in grooming/poodle parlour tills all over the country to be ringing with delight! Never have so many small pooches needed so many haircuts...

Well, not exactly. Many of the crosses are with other coated breeds so the number of trips to the salon stays about the same - or even if a bit less. People who have poodles often know that these are a high maintenance breed of dog. People with cockers know that they have to be groomed as well. However, enter the cockerpoo - and very recently there was a video by a breeder of cockerpoos who was showing how it should be done (and it was horrific, btw) and it should be done twice a year allegedly - she even goes so far as to say that the coat doesn't need to be brushed except for when it's going to the groomer. So there are many new owners who are getting this advice from breeders and what we are presented with are unruly (in behaviour) and matted to the skin dogs. The dogs haven't a clue what's going on because they're not trained from a young age to be handled and the owners are distraught when we as groomers don't buy in to the "only needs done 2x a year" and offer to humanely shave the dog naked. So there is tension between dog owner and groomer from the beginning because the groomer doesn't want to cause the dog to be distressed and the owner doesn't want a naked dog.

Another thing that causes groomers to groan (inwardly of course) is people who say "I have a rare breed, it's a LhasaYorkieChon. You DO know the breed standard trim for this right?" Or when people come in with something like a Bichon x LHGSD (yes, I've seen one with my own eyes - bred by a breeder of bichons who sells bichons for £450 and this cross for £500). We get a bit tetchy because we haven't got a clue what kind of coat we're going to be presented with. We don't WANT to make every dog naked, but sometimes that's all you can humanely do. We don't spend thousands in training per year going to seminars, learning about new techniques, products and tools only to have the latest in cross breds come to our door for styling only to find that it's not going to be able to be styled but stripped back. We are generally heartbroken when we find people are duped in to thinking they bought a healthy specimen and in reality it's anything but. <yes, I know this happens with purebred dogs too but the heartbreak is the same and perhaps more frequent in the crosses>

However, I do rather like many doodles and other crosses. But not more than any purebred dog that I do. They're all just dogs at the end of the day. I like having owners who listen to advice about care, training, coat care, feeding and have happy healthy pets who enjoy being groomed. I love learning about their quirks and their triumphs. With the cross breeds you have a bit more scope for creativity but that's only if the owner is willing and they are handy with a brush.

 

[PucciNPoni]

As to the whole name thing, here in Northern Ireland, you have to have a dog licence. And you are not allowed to put mongrel any more. You used to be able to, but it has changed, since compulsary microchipping came in. You have to put either the breeds involved, the closest/best guess if unknown, or the popular name if known - eg cavapoo, etc. Breeders must microchip and register pups prior to rehoming.

I remember once a girl came in to my salon with a dog to use as a test groom. It looked rather like a working collie. I asked her what she was going to do (I had specifically asked her to bring a dog that could be clipped and styled so was a bit mystified as to why she chose a collie type). She said it was a Labradinger. Labradinger? Yes, she says, it's a lab x springer. However that was because dad was a lab. If dad was a springer, it would have been a Springador. She said it with a perfectly straight face.

 

[Venevidivici]

It wasn't a dig,in any way and I feel for you...I can't even begin to imagine the upsurge in 'But PootlePerkins (I loved The Flumps) absolutely must keep her hair just so and what do you mean she's matted/lame/cross-eyed/undershot/overshot/two-headed?!'
(And I love any dog (pure or cross) so have no bias. My sister has a Cockerxpoodle and he's a sweet little (crazy!) dog but she's also had labs,lab crosses and an Irish wolfhound,so isn't in the PootlePerkin brigade... I just find fluffy bunny, ignorant owners (of any type of animal!) difficult to tolerate!)

 

[Venevidivici]

^^^ Pahaahaaha! PucciP,your last post just made me lol!!

 

[PucciNPoni]

It wasn't a dig,in any way and I feel for you...I can't even begin to imagine the upsurge in 'But PootlePerkins (I loved The Flumps) absolutely must keep her hair just so and what do you mean she's matted/lame/cross-eyed/undershot/overshot/two-headed?!'
(And I love any dog (pure or cross) so have no bias. My sister has a Cockerxpoodle and he's a sweet little (crazy!) dog but she's also had labs,lab crosses and an Irish wolfhound,so isn't in the PootlePerkin brigade... I just find fluffy bunny, ignorant owners (of any type of animal!) difficult to tolerate!)

Oh don't worry, I wasn't taking it as a dig. I was just having a predawn musing - sitting here ready to down the maximum number of Ibuprophen before I start yet another day...along with joint supplements and a good healthy dose of humour. In the past two days I've had a completely out of control Briard, who SuzieT you will be happy to note that the dog flung himself to the floor and against the walls while his Dad was leaving him. I literally had to stand braced (as if a horse were dragging me) against the temper tantrum. He hit the floor and walls so hard I thought we were going to have to check for broken ribs. He then got up, marched straight to the bath tub and looked at me as if to say "well c'mon, lets get this over with". He stood like a perfect angel for the rest of the groom. Then dad arrived and he then leapt at dad, biting his arms, legs, lead, tried to knock him over. I had serious chat with dad about the dominance he was showing. Dad seemed to take it on board. And yes, I did tell him I was concerned about him flinging himself to the floor! So that whole episode took a lot out of my back.

Then the sheer amount of brushing and scissoring and handstripping the past few weeks, my hands, wrists and elbow are knackered. I would LOVE a few "little crosses" but it seems most of the ones I get are horse sized

Hey, fwiw I have some right nutty owners of purebred dogs too. I took delight in losing one owner of a bichon who for the life of her couldn't seem to get to an appointment on time, always had to nitpick about the groom, couldn't maintain a schedule. Woman called me a Rottweiler when I told her straight out that if she couldn't keep her dog brushed and on a schedule that I would be shaving the coat off.

 

[Venevidivici]

I reckon that the animal owning section of the public has more than its fair share of nutters...perhaps that's what attracts them to have animals-poor pets have to put up with the insanity/stupidity without too much complaint..