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Angelina100

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Hi,
We have a 9 year old female cross ( lab with some Staffie - we think ). She has always been great with people - especially kids. . As a pup she was also very submissive and friendly with other dogs, very playful. This is coupled with a strong anxiety seperation which I think is genuine, not learned. When she hit the 1.5 year mark, things started to change with other dogs . She would gag herself on the lead to get to them. Often they were dogs showing no interest in her or any aggression. I've learned to relax with her and also use a halti now. This has helped. However, she can't get off the lead with a muzzel either. When we tried this, she continued to seek dogs out and attempted to flatten them! We have used a feramone collar with some sucess for the anxiety and have had her physically checked. Vet found nothing. We also went to a dog behaviouralist. This was not vet helpful. She suggested that we consider destroying her as she appeared to have a strong preditory drive. We have since learned that several other litter members were destroyed due to aggression. Last Sunday she managed to get out the front door-we have to gate keep constantly, but with young kids coming and going it's not 100 %. She ran straight out, across the road and proceeded to maul a dog that was minding its own business, being walked on a lead by a man with a young child. Considerable distress was caused. Thankfully the dog wasnt badly hurt. This is not the first time though that she has went for dogs its about the 5th time. I don't know what to do. Is it nature, nurture or both? Is there something that I can do differently? I know that we have made some mistakes with her, but Im confused re the way that she presents-so good with people and no aggression at all there.
Dog rehoming centres wont take her as she cant be placed with other dogs. Any advice, things to try? Or, do you think Im kidding myself here? To date people havnt been physically hurt, but I am concerned that someone could get caught up in it. My husband is planning to call the vet to look at having her destroyed.

Any advice would be welcome. Thanks and sorry for the rant
 
I am really sorry for you as you obviously love this dog,however it does sound that she is an accident about to happen...you are all living on the edge,in fear of what she may do. THe obvious consequences of having a powerful ,dog aggressive animal in the house is like living with a ticking time bomb..no one is happy,no one relaxed.
I agree with your husband. You have to take responsibility and take her in to the vets to PTS...there are so many dog/ child friendly dogs in rescue that deserve a placement.Im sorry for both you and your family...I am also sorry for this dog,but you have given her your best shot.Just imagine if she killed a dog or worse,attacked a child.....I think you don't have a choice here.

Just re read what you have written,..
"We have a 9 year old female cross
When she hit the 1.5 year mark, things started to change with other dogs . She would gag herself on the lead to get to them.
Often they were dogs showing no interest in her or any aggression.
she continued to seek dogs out and attempted to flatten them.she appeared to have a strong preditory drive.
We have since learned that several other litter members were destroyed due to aggression.
but with young kids coming and going it's not 100 %.
She ran straight out, across the road and proceeded to maul a dog that was minding its own business, being walked on a lead by a man with a young child.
Considerable distress was caused.
This is not the first time though that she has went for dogs
its about the 5th time?
Dog rehoming centres wont take her as she cant be placed with other dogs."
"."..........?


Honestly,do you want to live like this.?
 
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She does sound like an absolute liability however there are many dogs who are the same and just because a dog is reactive to other dogs doesn't mean they will ever in anyway be reactive to people although I appreciate your concern that someone could get 'caught up' in her attack.

The fact that you have considered rehoming centres to me says that this is not a behaviour you are happy to manage; understandably so, an aggressive dog would have no place in my household either.

But then I'm sure you love this dog so you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. You can either proceed with euthanasia, accepting that you tried your best with her or you can take steps to manage her; always walked on a lead with a muzzle and making sure she has no chance of escaping, be that with baby gates separating her from areas of the house where people may come in/out or having her kenneled etc.
 
OK, so you've asked a professional for advice and they've recommended you PTS. Rehoming centres will not take her. You know that littermates have been destroyed for the same reason. She's 'mauled' multiple dogs. How would you feel if she seriously hurt or killed someone else's dog? Because it does happen and it is devastating for an owner to lose a dog this way.

She's had 9 good years where you have done all thats reasonable to try and help-I would give her a glorious week and then humanely euthanise. At the very least, you need an 'airlock' in your house and on your property whereby she just can't get out (double child gates etc) and she must always be on a lead and muzzled in public.
 
Thanks for all of the replies. Stair gate is no good, she can jump very high. I am really quite against this in principle, but does anyone have experience of the electronic collars? Think it's the only thing not tried. Grabbing at straws here x
 
E-collars don't work well in aggressive situations. The dog often reacts aggressively to the shock and is "egged on" almost.
 
A shock collar could make things much worse, and you risk losing her trust in people if it goes wrong.

I would try another behaviourist before making any decision. This is a good place to start to find someone in your area who will know what they are doing: http://www.apbc.org.uk/

There could be a variety of reasons for her aggression - frustration/fear/ medical issue ( has she has her thyroid levels checked ?) a lot of problems can be helped with the right help and sometimes behavioural medication.

In the meantime, put up a double stairgate ( extra tall one or one above the other), so she cannot get out.

It could indeed be a case of bad breeding, but if you have to make that final decision, at least you know that you have done everything you can to help her.
 
I would euthanaise, in order to keep everyone safe dogs with this level of aggression need to have a very stable environment with no chance of ever escaping from the ecirity of the house, they must be kept on lead and muzzled all the time they are outside the house. Unless you can walk the dog for hours each day I don't feel they get quality of life, the house must be stressed and this impacts on the dog too. Kids always change the risk factors as doors do get left open.
How would your kids feel if they left the door open and a person get injured.
A friend of mine got badly bitten last year when a dog attacked her and she tried to fend it off (she realises that was not a wise move but was caught up in the moment), she has had to have surgery on her hands, the vet in France proceeded to report it and the dog has been destroyed leaving her terrified to walk the dog and her dog now reactive to others.
Please make sure you have adequate insurance whilst you make a decision
 
Frankly I would be beyond appalled if my dog was attacked by a dog known to be dog aggressive - you say this has happened five times!!!

I don't think you'll have any success 'solving' her issues at this point. You either manage - ALWAYS on lead/flexi/longline and muzzled when out, go out at odd times (late night/early morning), keep the house on lock down - or PTS. There is no 'right' decision.
 
quagga said:
Frankly I would be beyond appalled if my dog was attacked by a dog known to be dog aggressive - you say this has happened five times!!!
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Agree with this, I would have come back to visit you with large friends tbh if my dog was injured in that way, you are beyond lucky you have had no repurcussions to any of these repeated attacks.
 
when my other half worked as a surgeon at the vet school, he saw several dogs attacked by others. The injuries were horrific and not all made it, especially the little ones. One case was especially sad as they were pensioners and it was their last dog.

My own dog was attacked by a known aggressive dog too although luckily I and a security guard managed to kick it off before major damage was caused (there were teeth marks and extensive bruising all around my dogs undercarriage, we were lucky to get the dog off when we did) but it was traumatic and its hard to describe how angry I was.

I visited the owner the next day with photographs and she seemed quite upset but 'couldn't put a healthy dog to sleep'. So she was left with a huge dog she couldn't walk in public. She too had had a behaviourist and vets tell her to PTS and two litter mates had also been destroyed. She eventually did have it PTS after it attacked another dog.
 
Angelina100 said:
To date people havnt been physically hurt, but I am concerned that someone could get caught up in it.
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You have already answered your question.

Speaking as a mother whose child was seriously mauled by a dog to the extent where one side of her face was literally ripped apart there is no question that your dog needs to be destroyed. It's incomprehensible to me that you need to ask the question even though you admit you are concerned that the dog may at some time go for a human.

Please don't let there be the slightest chance that another family goes through the hell that we did that night and do the right thing.

</rant> :(
 
My friends lovely old dog was killed this year in a situation like you describe with your dog .He was a dear old boy walking happily with his 'dad' on the lead with their other dogs when a dog appeared from nowhere jumped on him mauled him and ran off leaving the dog badly ripped and bleeding to death before they could get him to veterinary help. This dog was 14 years old a little terrier and doing absolutely nothing other than going for a stroll with his owner and their other dogs .They were devastated the pictures in their head will never go away!!!!!!!. The dog that did this was never found (they were walking on tracks in rural Wales) Can you live with this if your dog does the same.
No poor dog deserves to die like this .
 
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Do you think a dog that goes out of their way to attack others, when they are not threatening or in their space or paying heed to them, is happy in the head or mentally secure? Objectively speaking? The worry you live with is similar to what she carries in her head all the time, only she can't rationalise it. Just the pressing need to behave the way she does, for whatever reason.

One day you could be faced with a big vet bill. For another dog or for her, if she meets a dog who will not back down. Or worse, as described in the above scenario.
 
Absolutely appalled that you even had to ask the question.

Having had my dog mauled by one who was known to be aggressive, I cannot even begin to understand why you wouldn't listen to people and put this dog down.

I feel silly. Having a bit of a cry now because of this thread. It's awful to think that people are knowingly allowing dogs like this the opportunity to potentially ruin someone's life.
 
Dogs who attack others are not happy healthy dogs.
Your dog has several health issues they are mental health issues instead of physical.
You have already tried to seek proffesional help which has confirmed she is dangerous and your interventions have not reduced the issue so far.
Her littermates have already been euthanised due to aggression suggesting it may be a genetic issue.
she has already attacked others at least 5 times...Its amazing that no humans have been harmed so far and the authorities have not stepped in.

She can escape from your home and given you have young children is likely to do so again in the future.
So in order to be kept safely would either need to be muzzled continually with multiple steps to prevent her gaining access to the outside world(muzzled dogs can still do damage) or caged in a secure run and only walked on a muzzle with someone who can control her.She should never be walked off lead as she is a dangerous animal to other dogs...again like I said above muzzled dogs can still do harm.
There is no reasonable alterative to this....She simply cannot be trusted not to attempt to kill other dogs.
Yes she is a lovely girl to humans....but that does not make her any less dangerous while shes attacking another dog.

Dogs who need to be kept caged and muzzled for fear they leave the house and attempt to maul other dogs are not suitable as pets imo.

Its also not fair to do that to a pet who is used to being a family dog and who loves her people.

It is better to put a dog down a day to early rather then a day to late.

Dogs have no concept of today or tommorrow they live for the moment. Spend 24 hours doing her favourite things then let her go.She is not a happy healthy dog and she cannot help the way she reacts.

Get the vet out to your house so she doesnt have to go through the stress of dealing with other dogs at the surgery or let them know shes dog aggressive so they can schedule her in with that in mind but it is time.

Im very sorry to say all this by the way.its clear you love your girl but sometimes you have to so the responsible thing. She wont know whats going on.All she will know is that she feels sleepy and that ye are there with her.
 
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Your only choices are controlling her always, muzzled, never off leash, ensuring she can't escape your home. Or PTS.
At this point a behaviourist can only say or do so much. It's a really hard thing to say and I would be exactly the same, trying everything and anything to change her behaviour, to make it okay, but to be frank she is dangerous. I'm sure you see the gorgeous and loving side to her, making it very hard, but she doesn't sound like a happy or secure dog. For whatever reason she is doing this and it's doubtful it will get better at the age she now is. It sounds horrible to put an aggressive dog to sleep and I'm sure it makes you feel guilty, like a failure, like it's your fault for even thinking of it but I think unfortunately it would be the best for her. What life is it for a dog, muzzled, always on lead, unable to socialise and clearly in distress?
 
Have you had behaviourists involved? Looking back at the early years with my very DA dog, we spent a lot of time with therapists and turned his high prey drive into a successful retrieval game. Does she retrieve/chase balls? That has been a lifesaver for us.

If you can't cope and a rescue centre won't take her, there's only one answer.
 
Thank you all very much for the time that you have taken to provide thoughtful, and helpful responses.We did have our dog -Shadow - put down a few weeks ago. Weird without her, but the house is less stressful . Thanks again. This is a great website by the way x
 
Angelina100 said:
Thank you all very much for the time that you have taken to provide thoughtful, and helpful responses.We did have our dog -Shadow - put down a few weeks ago. Weird without her, but the house is less stressful . Thanks again. This is a great website by the way x
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I am very sorry for your loss, but I think you did absolutely the right thing.
 
Angelina100 said:
Thank you all very much for the time that you have taken to provide thoughtful, and helpful responses.We did have our dog -Shadow - put down a few weeks ago. Weird without her, but the house is less stressful . Thanks again. This is a great website by the way x
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It is a really tough decision you made, but so sensible for everyone including Shadow.
Have a hug ((((((HUG)))))))
 
I respect you for stepping up and resolving this.It can't have been easy for you.I am sorry for your loss as it is never an easy decision.You absolutely did the right thing.
 
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