Dog scared ponies

[Littlelegs]

Peter, whilst I do sympathise with what happened with your mare, having had my own severely attacked, that's an entirely different situation. I disagree entirely that the less frightened they are, the more likely they are to be attacked. A horse that will happily turn on, & chase a dog is far less likely to fall victim to an out of control one, than one acting like prey. There is a massive difference to having your horse chewed up, & a noisy dog. Dogs are potential killing machines, but then again so are horses, men, women, cars etc. It doesn't mean we can jump to conclusions about all of them. I'm sure there's a thread on dog/ motoring/ cyclist/ walker forums about out of control riders, doesn't mean we all are. I don't have any sympathy for out of control dog owners, but neither do I have any for out of control horse riders. And I would argue that a dog barking on its own property is under far more control than two horses leaping about a public road.
As well as horseriders who think the world should halt when they hack, I'm sick of dogs being judged badly because some owners are morons. And the attitude that its ok for horses to misbehave or for horse or rider to lack basic training, but dogs aren't allowed to behave in any other way but perfectly. What's good for the goose etc.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Julie 111. The next time it could be a small child walking past. However small the dog they can do a lot of damage.

That is a ludicrous statement. Just because a dog barked at a horse does not mean it will attack a small child.

 

[ozpoz]

From what I'm reading the dog wasn't on the owners property, and the owner had no recall,couldn't stop it,didn't apologise and the rider was out with her child.
I think the owner should be attempting to de sensitise/socialise and train her her dog! If she can't call it back when it has access to a road, and it is frightening passers by, then that isn't responsible and she should secure her property.

 

[SarahWeston]

Unless the owner of the dog actually commits an offence, i.e. the dog was not under proper control outside of the property, there is nothing that can be done about the owner or the dog and all the 'shoulds' in the world aren't going to make a difference.

If this incident had shaken the pony's general confidence in being around dogs then I'd think about doing some specific training involving dogs in a secure environment to begin with. You might even be able to find a friend with a dog that is more lively and noisy to have around rather than just well behaved ones. However, I do think horses are very good at spotting the difference in intent between a quiet, uninterested in a dog and a dog that if it had the opportunity would attack and won't want to stick around to see whether the fence holds.

I heard as good analogy for these situations. If you say that you and your horse have an emotion level of 10 available to you, then when your horse's emotion level goes up to 7.5 or even 8, you only have 2.5 or 2 left for yourself. In other words resist the temptation to shout at someone or the dog. Not easy...

 

[julie111]

I have since spoken to someone who walks their dog by this bungalow regularly and they have confirmed it does this all the time totally unprovoked. The woman's husband does apparently have control over it and it will immediately retreat when called, but the woman sadly doesn't. IMO I think the dog should stay inside while she is alone with it.
Like I keep trying to say my ponies are very good with dogs we have three, westies and a bull mastiff, a dog charging over a bank behaving aggressively is not acceptable and being told to get over it because we live in the countryside is again not acceptable! I'm sure if our big dog behaved like that we would be in trouble!
I would not hack out on ponies that I didn't consider safe to, and yes we have had pigs running up to us and alpacas, on both of these occasions the ponies were fine. What happened yesterday was different, the dog appeared from nowhere being very aggressive on our side of the bank, the woman got hold of it and started to take it indoors but it got away from her and charged over the bank again.
Thank you again to those who have offered some good advice!

 

[djedgley]

Oh boy, don't get me started on this subject!! Lost my dear old chap (he was 28) 2 years ago because a very aggressive dog tried to leap over a hedge to get to us. My wonderful boy fell on the road, scrambled up & galloped home (half a mile or so) & left me with broken ribs. Horse blew both front tendons & was sadly put down. It broke my heart.

 

[Caol Ila]

Sounds like the dog left its property and was on the OP's side of the fence or bank. Is that right, OP? Surely the dog owner is responsible for maintaining fencing that will keep the dog contained.

I will charge straight at a loose, aggressive dog. My horse is very good with friendly dogs but would make short work of an aggressive one (or one she perceives to be aggressive). I've had to tell a friend to keep her dog on a lead because the dog thought my horse was a big dog and was jumping up to nip at her face in the way dogs do with one another. Horse was rather unappreciative. Another time, a fellow livery's exuberant puppy jumped on me while I was standing near my horse, and the horse got rather agitated and she had it in for the puppy ever since. A properly aggressive one would not stand a chance. But I digress. The dog owner in question here needs to sort out a better fence.

 

[Honey08]

I'd go in and ask her to start shaking it to desensitise my horse . Never like to miss an opportunity

I was just joking - they're not remotely bothered!


OP I still don't understand where the dog was - was this bank in the garden or outside her property at the side of the road? If loose at the side of the road, then its a different story, and totally different to what I understood at first, and if so, then I do have some sympathy for you and can see why you were shocked.

There was a collie in a garden near us, that used to run along the fence under a hedge barking at us as we rode past. It was really noisy and used to drive my horse mad, making her passage home! TBH I knew it was coming, so just had to make sure I had hold of my horse and my legs on when we rode past. I guess thats what you can do now - you know the dog is just there and it won't be a shock next time!

Peter, that story is shocking, how awful for you. Years ago, when working with hunters in the midlands, I used to have to hack past a caravan with a pitbull chained outside, that would run to the end of his chain and bark like crazy. It never bothered me until the day the chain followed it out and it chased us. That day I was bothered! Luckily nothing happened.

 

[Mithras]

You need a horse like my 17.2 OP. There are two Dobermans on a chain off a path where I ride, and they come within inches of the public footpath. (All the locals are used to them, and there have been burglaries). They are the most aggressive looking, vicious, noisy dogs you could imagine. My 17.2 loves all dogs, and heads straight for them when he sees them. He is scared of nothing. The dogs OTOH take one look at him and slink back, one of them offering a timid retreating yap every so often. 17.2 is so disappointed...

However I do think you need to examine your own anxiety levels and work on how to handle everyday situations like this and staying calm. You need to set a good example not only to your horses but your children. Some of the analogies you draw between dogs barking and attacking children are just ridiculous. Nothing actually happened, and it wasn't that bad an incident. I had 4 large loose dogs bound towards me through the woods when I was on my 5 year old the other day. Again nothing happened, but then I didn't start screaming and yelling and getting upset.

I'm with the dog owner who says it is part of living in the countryside. And I'm very rarely on the side of the dog owner but that is common sense.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

saying it is a guard dog and there is nothing she can do, the horse down the road doesn't have a problem with it, so just get over it!
I feel so angry, my boy is young, he is excellent in all traffic, will pass anything, didn't flinch when a chinook helicopter passed over us the other week but this dog spooked him, I know things like this can happen but her attitude was disgusting!
Sorry for the long post.

Well you know what I would have said.

Well if my horse kicks your dog and his has kicked 2 others which has barked/ snapped round his feet. If it kills or injures your dog.

YOU WILL HAVE TO GET OVER IT !!! and walk away

When i see dogs coming near us I say if the owners there, your dog might get kicked if you do not hold him.


or get your dog or it will be Number 3 which has been kicked.

horses are prey animals and a dog coming near their feet is a predictor.. a prey animal will do what it has to to avoid being pulled down.





.

 

[Victoria25]

As a horse owner/rider: if I was riding down the road and a barking dog (on the road and loose) came at us attacking I'd give it a sharp wallop with my whip and be fuming with the owner for having a loose dog on a public road. If it was in their garden and loose then Im afraid its tough and up to you to control your horse and avoid area in future. I'd kindly ask the owner to help me if horse was playing up but if they didnt again still riders problem.

As a dog owner: Id be very apologetic to anyone whose horse was messing about due to my dog barking (that was secure in my garden) and would help where possible but not really my problem. If someone dared came knocking at my door afterwards (which would be seen as intimidating) demanding I sort my dog out because they couldnt control their horse - they'd get it slammed in their face too

 

[Littlelegs]

If you think a 17hander chasing off a dog is amusing mithras, you would love my daughters tiny 11.1. It will happily take on a dog in the field, (including a rottie & two staffies) & whips round the couple of occasions one has been pestering her out hacking. Once someones playful, but out of control gsd ran at pony, there is nothing quite like the site of a gsd, tail between legs running at full pelt, with a pony only a few inches bigger & a small grinning child cantering after it. Having spoken to the owner since, I can confirm the dog doesn't attempt to bother horses anymore.

 

[Victoria25]

My rottie gets chased off a tiny shetland too ... he'll bark and bark and try to herd her but she just turns and runs at him full pelt - he runs tail between legs and hides on the other side of the fence

Annoying as he can be sometimes - thanks to our pooch, we have a yard full of dog proof neds

 

[Victoria25]

I'm just amused by the idea of a springer spaniel as a guard dog Round here the guard dogs are rotties and Dobermans - some of whom do throw themselves against their boundary fences like all hell's broken loose. Can't say I fancy going in there to complain about them though

haha my rottie would do this - its in his nature, but you come through into the garden he'd lick you to death and then sit on you

 

[Littlelegs]

Lol Victoria. Pony was a very small but fear aggressive yearling when we got her. My friends rottie was bigger & heavier at the time & actually minding its own business when she chased it from the field & left it hiding behind the gate.

 

[Victoria25]

Haha @ littlelegs

Poor rotties get such a bad reputation - I dont tend to get it but my OH does when walking him - people cross the road to avoid them - yet my dog is only 18 months and was socialised from a young pup and loves other dogs/children ...

In fact my OH had him in the park at weekend when a staffie came out of the bushes and clung to his throat - a little old woman came from the trees screaming as it was her sons dog who apparently has to be walked first thing in the morning when there are no other dogs around as it attacks ... (it was off a lead) ... a smaller dog would have been mauled/badly injured ... as it was the staffie left with no ear ... no sympathy for the stupid woman

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

just digressing for a mo. I have doctored out the confidential parts but this letter applies so for anyone told not to ride on verges here ya go a copy to print out and carry with you. It has shut up the mouthy you should not be on the verge mo.

ps thats not my name doctored that too

 

[FinnishLapphund]

To me this thread seems like a good example of people talking past each other, in post 3 on this thread Littlelegs wondered whether the dog was on the road or not, in post 5 Julie111 answered Littlelegs with "No the dog wasn't in the road but on our side of a very low bank". So in post 6 Boobos asked "Was the dog on her own property or on the public highway?" As far as I've noticed Julie111 continued answering "it was on our side of the bank!", and not until post 54 Julie111 clarified "it was over our side and no longer in her garden."

But then in post 65 Julie111 again only talks about "a dog charging over a bank behaving aggressively is not acceptable" + "the dog appeared from nowhere being very aggressive on our side of the bank, the woman got hold of it and started to take it indoors but it got away from her and charged over the bank again."

I can't help but think that this thread maybe would have looked a little different, if Julie111 had clarified herself a little earlier, and then kept using such simple clarifications = the dog was no longer in their garden/the dog was outside its garden/both horses and dog was beside the road outside their garden..., because as far as I've noticed, nobody is asking about which side of the bank the dog was!


*sigh*


Anyhow, the dog was outside its garden and it shouldn't have been, especially not if it is snapping in the air and snarling towards horses (I don't know what it did, I wasn't there, hence my use of the word if), which to me is worse than barking. I believe that a barking dog is usually just saying something like for example "I see you", "Hello, I'm here" etc., and that it very rarely equals "I'm going to try and kill you".

Off topic, but I really don't understand why it is so, that while many humans likes to talk and comment about what is happening in the world, there is also many humans that seems to expect that dogs should not want to do the same.

I agree with what _GG_ said, a person can only control their own actions and reactions.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

. I believe that a barking dog is usually just saying something like for example "I see you", "Hello, I'm here" etc., and that it very rarely equals "I'm going to try and kill you".

.

Well from a horses view a dog charging barking and snapping at their feet saying. I am going to bite your legs and could drag you down.

How the hell is a horse supposed to know that the dog isn't going to bite. Instinct tells them fright or flight. Most horses do not like a dog biting and snapping round their legs. They will kick out or shy out into the road or bolt off down the road.


Too many instances when they do bite them.

Which is exactly how wolves/ all big cats do they either bite their legs or trip them up.


And speaking from experience where my horse kicked two dogs that came at their legs, and a friend who got chucked off her horse by a dog charging and scaring the horse, which then galloped back and avoided being hit by a car 2 miles back to yard.


That said if you walked down a road and a dog charged at you seeing aggressive would you stand there waiting to get bitten??? or would you try fend it off????

 

[FfionWinnie]

Honey I know you were joking so was I.

I am still however unclear if the dog was on private property or public which is the crux of this matter. Maybe you could spell this out, op.

Being on your side of the bank means nothing if the bank is part of the owners property.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

Cc- if I was the dog owner, I would have shouted the dog if I could see a rider struggling, but, I would expect the rider to acknowledge I was doing them a favour, not fulfilling an obligation. And, I'm horsey & understand the implications of out of control horses (cos that's what they were) on a road. A non horsey person wouldn't necessarily think the same, & we shouldn't expect them to.

I think we will have to agree to differ on this one, as a dog owner I would always take the responsibility of the horses welfare by ensuring my dogs did not run or bark near a horse simply because dogs are far easier to control than a horse can be and a horse can cause far more of a problem by being out of control. Its the same with the dogs near children, the dogs must always learn not to bark at them and never to run up to them. My dogs have been taught these things and makes life a lot easier for me and parents of children and riders of horses. I see it as my duty to teach my dogs this. As I have said my dogs bark if people walk past but even if the gates are open they do not run out. I realise it is the responsibility or horse owners to try to teach their horses to accept such things but its not always so easy with a horse. My horse has my dogs running around them all the time and he doesn't even look at them but there is collie I ride past that runs up to the hedge and barks, it freaks my horse out every time even though he has been ridden past this dog for the last 5 years!! Luckily it is on a lane and its not really a big deal. I think the problem is he can hear him but not see him through the hedge as when he barks by the gate in full view horse does not flinch. Anyway agree to differ?

 

[Littlelegs]

I don't think we are differing all that much tbh, like I said as a horsey person I would shout the dog, I just don't think we can expect the non horsey to guess it would be helpful unless a rider asks. And if we do ask, it should be asked as a favour, not a demand. No dog I've ever owned has bothered with horses, & all obedient. If I see horses, or kids etc, I've always shouted to heel, more to demonstrate control to members of the public than preventing the dog approaching whoever it is. But, when I've had riders, or parents bellow at me from a distance, with dog yet further away again & showing no interest, to get my dog or similar, my immediate response is no. And a non horsey person is likely to feel the same, even if the dog is being a nuisance from the riders pov. Does that make sense?

 

[Crugeran Celt]

Yes it does make sense, perhaps the answer is that no one is allowed to have a dog unless they have lessons in how to keep them under control first. I get so fed up of hearing people scream at their dogs with absolutely no response then laugh about having no control as if its very funny. I don't have the same feelings towards horse riders though and if they are out of control I always feel for the rider. That could be because I have a mad welshie who is afraid of everything that moves and most things that don't.

 

[ossy]

My friend and i got attacked by a dog out hacking once. The dog was very agitated barking ect by us and the owner had taken the dog to the side to let us past as we did, horses not bothered by barking, he dog got out of his coller and went for my horses bac leg i just put my leg on and asked her to keep walking she did with no fuss, she trusted me there was nothing wrong. This let the owner get a hold of the dog again. He was very appoligetic, we see him and his dog lots still on our hacks and he has bought the dog a harness now and has obviously done some training with it. It would have been easy to get annoyed at dog owner but what good would that have done. I had control of my horse and hes learnt his lesson and got control of his dog. If the dog was inside a fence i might expect a little shying away but not that reaction. I just flex my horse in the opposite direction to what shes shying at with a bit of leg but then i'm able to do that as i've put in the hard work in the school.

 

[PandorasJar]

But, when I've had riders, or parents bellow at me from a distance, with dog yet further away again & showing no interest, to get my dog or similar, my immediate response is no. And a non horsey person is likely to feel the same, even if the dog is being a nuisance from the riders pov. Does that make sense?

I really agree with this. A dog off a lead is not immediately out of control and I don't actually see any reason that they should be recalled, horse riders do not have some grand superiority over everone else.

The majority of owners around here recall and get thanked for it. A few don't and the horse ignores them.

The only problem I've ever had was with a huge dog who was called in and sat next to it's owner. My share mare took one look and reversed at speed (to be fair this dog was bloody massive). I burst out laughing as did dog owner and as the best reaction I could get was to stop I asked if they minded walking the dog past (rather than following the route they were on and avoiding the issue 'til next time) she soon got over herself. Dog owners are great for bombproofing your dog. If you have a smile and a hello, most will happily let the horse meet the dog.

I think Tessybears thread atm is the best reaction to have.

If a dog is in the road going in for an attack it's a different matter. But as far as I'm reading the op, the dog was on it's own land and her horses had an issue compounded by her then yelling at dog owner... which probably confirmed to the horses what a big old threat it was.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

That is a ludicrous statement. Just because a dog barked at a horse does not mean it will attack a small child.

Mate's pit x is often left in her car in the lane while she sees to her horse. If a horse walks past, he goes nuts. Open the door and show him a person, Mr Ecstatic! He just hates horses.

I used to wet myself about loose dogs and I do think the dog owner can more easily (and should) call back the dog. I agree, though, that horses need to get used to spooky stuff, tricky if you don't have any stooge dogs, llamas etc!

Springer as guard dog?! More likely it wants cuddles and to say hello. My lot sound terrifying from the outside of the door, but are simply desperate to say hello. Saying that, one of mine does like to take on the occasional Rottweiler or 17.2 ISH

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Well from a horses view a dog charging barking and snapping at their feet saying. I am going to bite your legs and could drag you down.

How the hell is a horse supposed to know that the dog isn't going to bite. Instinct tells them fright or flight. Most horses do not like a dog biting and snapping round their legs. They will kick out or shy out into the road or bolt off down the road.


Too many instances when they do bite them.

Which is exactly how wolves/ all big cats do they either bite their legs or trip them up.


And speaking from experience where my horse kicked two dogs that came at their legs, and a friend who got chucked off her horse by a dog charging and scaring the horse, which then galloped back and avoided being hit by a car 2 miles back to yard.


That said if you walked down a road and a dog charged at you seeing aggressive would you stand there waiting to get bitten??? or would you try fend it off????

Where did I say anything about it being acceptable for a dog to be barking and snapping at a horses hooves?

I did say that I thought that it was worse if a dog was snapping in the air and snarling towards horses, than if the dog had been barking.

Towards horses for me, usually means that there is at least a little bit distance between the dog and the horse's legs/hooves. And to me a dog that snaps in the air and snarls is more likely to mean real business, compared to a dog that just barks, since I believe that it is more likely for a bark to mean for example "Hello! I see you" rather than actually mean "I have the intention of trying to cause harm/kill you or your horse".


I didn't say anything about that horses should understand dogs intentions or what their barks might mean.

By the way, the handful of times that I've seen other people's dogs (note, not my bitches) want to do anything with a horses leg when a horse has walked past them, they've aimed to try and pinch in the herding sort of way, not in the aiming to try and sink their teeth down into the flesh to cause serious harm sort of way.
That is my minor experience, had any of those dogs succeeded to pinch the horses, and/or if the horses had kicked the dogs, I would not have blamed the horses, because I certainly do not expect any horse to understand the difference!

I'm sorry that your friends horse was spooked, but wild horses are prey animals, it could have been anything that scared your friends horse, but now it happened to be a dog.

It has happened that I've met aggressive dogs when I've been out walking, I stand steady, inhale air and stare out in the distance, if that have not worked, when the dog has been a few meters away, I attack! I've charged forward while, with my calmest, darkest possible voice, I've said something like "How dare you!" "Go away!"
In the handful occasions when that have not been enough, I've used my legs to shove away the dog, if that have not worked, I've kicked it.
I have never needed to go further than that, but if it happens one day in the future, I hope that the dog is wearing a collar or that I have something that I can use to try and strangle the dog into unconsciousness, because an unconscious dog can't continue to bite.