dog walking etiquette

blackcob said:
burtie - I don't want strange dogs, no matter how friendly they might be, coming up to my on-lead dogs. They are on a lead at all times in public places (high drive working dogs, poor recall, it's a breed thing). Too many times they have been set about by an 'oh, he's never done that before'. Both of them were second hand and had missed out on their critical socialisation periods, both had various issues regarding other dogs that needed work, every single rude off lead dog that came bounding up and crowded them, never mind actually gunning for them, set us back weeks of training.

They go off lead and socialise at our training club in a controlled environment or with dogs belonging to friends and neighbours that we know well. I have zero tolerance for strange dogs these days. Sounds awful and curmudgeonly but it really is a case of once bitten, twice shy.
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SO agree with you Blackcob, I have NO tolerance for dogs bounding up either, I had my Lurcher on a lead as she was getting over a broken femur yet time after time dogs would coming flying up and attack her and on one occasion I had to lift her up above my head and kick the bloody attacking dog to get it to go away, idiot owners were just standing there watching as usual. I now put the boot in before I have to get to this stage anyway.You can't always let your dog off the lead so Burtie PLEASE keep your dog away from other people's dogs on leads, it's just common sense really.
 
That's fine Burtie, as long as you know that one of my dogs might attack yours out of fear and the other (the well socialised one :p) will jump on their back and dump them upside down on the ground for the larf :)
 
Ditto, the spotty one will lunge and scream as if he's going to slaughter the approaching dog but actually shrink back and try to hide behind my legs if the other dog retaliates, then the (pretty damn socialised and polite these days) bitch will step in if they keep on going for him and isn't afraid to have a snap. This has only been a recent development, she's been leapt on one time too many.
 
I think maybe my comments have been slightly misunderstood. There is a big difference between bounding over and annoying another dog in any way (which is clearly not on) and just passing them on a track. Of course any dog is going to acknowledge the dog it is passing by whether on a lead or not, if it shows any interest in being friendly. But one call from me if the owner of the dog is distressed would move him on.
 
Interesting discussion.
Have to say, it sounds like only one dog actually 'attacked' ie bit you? What exactly do the other ones do that you class as 'attacking'?
Also, I would strongly recommend letting your dog socialise with others off the lead, perhaps in an enclosed environment first of all? I don't think you're doing it any favours by putting it on the lead all the time.

For those of you who mention kicking someone else's dog - be very careful with that, some owners might not take kindly to that, I know I wouldn't.

For those of you talking about injured dogs, or nervous dogs that are not ready to meet other dogs please note that the responsibility for your dog's safety and wellbeing lies with YOU and YOU ALONE!!!
Please do not expect everyone else to go out of their way because YOUR DOG has an issue!!
When my dog was injured and could only walk on the lead I was out with it at 5 am to avoid meeting other dogs that may cause a problem.
For the sake of my dog.

Just to put this into perspective, imagine you have a horse that's worried about traffic. Would it be feasible to close the road off every time you want to take it out for a hack? Or would you spend the time hacking it in company, at a time when there is only light traffic and gradually get it used to cars?

So, if you don't feel that your dog is ready to meet other dogs off the lead but you are meeting them, walk your dog in a more remote place. Or walk it at a different time (yes, I know, it means making an effort).
If a dog you meet bites you or your dog, report it. If it doesn't, ask yourself if it is actually being aggressive, or if maybe you are just perceiving it as such because you are worried about how your dog will react and have no confidence that your dog will come back to you if you let it be a dog and play?
 
Delta99 said:
Interesting discussion.
Have to say, it sounds like only one dog actually 'attacked' ie bit you? What exactly do the other ones do that you class as 'attacking'?
Also, I would strongly recommend letting your dog socialise with others off the lead, perhaps in an enclosed environment first of all? I don't think you're doing it any favours by putting it on the lead all the time.

For those of you who mention kicking someone else's dog - be very careful with that, some owners might not take kindly to that, I know I wouldn't.

For those of you talking about injured dogs, or nervous dogs that are not ready to meet other dogs please note that the responsibility for your dog's safety and wellbeing lies with YOU and YOU ALONE!!!
Please do not expect everyone else to go out of their way because YOUR DOG has an issue!!
When my dog was injured and could only walk on the lead I was out with it at 5 am to avoid meeting other dogs that may cause a problem.
For the sake of my dog.

Just to put this into perspective, imagine you have a horse that's worried about traffic. Would it be feasible to close the road off every time you want to take it out for a hack? Or would you spend the time hacking it in company, at a time when there is only light traffic and gradually get it used to cars?

So, if you don't feel that your dog is ready to meet other dogs off the lead but you are meeting them, walk your dog in a more remote place. Or walk it at a different time (yes, I know, it means making an effort).
If a dog you meet bites you or your dog, report it. If it doesn't, ask yourself if it is actually being aggressive, or if maybe you are just perceiving it as such because you are worried about how your dog will react and have no confidence that your dog will come back to you if you let it be a dog and play?
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Like!
 
burtie said:
I think maybe my comments have been slightly misunderstood. There is a big difference between bounding over and annoying another dog in any way (which is clearly not on) and just passing them on a track. Of course any dog is going to acknowledge the dog it is passing by whether on a lead or not, if it shows any interest in being friendly. But one call from me if the owner of the dog is distressed would move him on.
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Agreed - I won't have mine "bounding" up to any other dog - on the lead or not - but I won't put him on the lead if he's out while I'm hacking. Or rather, I don't intend to, didn't with previous boy, this one's not 6 months yet and doesn't go anywhere significant with the horses yet. It's bad enough hanging off the side to clip him on for roads / off when we're away from them, I'm not doing it every time we meet a dog. If the dog is "under control" I don't see the problem.
 
So what happens if say my older dog and I are walking along minding our own business, I see a dog running full tilt, I ask the owner to call it, this does not work, the dog lands on top of mine and he bites it? Even though he was on a lead and under control and the other wasn't and I had given prior warning?
This has never happened, he has growled and snapped/bit of handbags at five paces, but only because I am vigilant.

Don't get me wrong I love to see dogs playing (rough housing = very tired pup :D) but horses for courses, not all dogs are perfect and why should I have to keep him away from all other dogs always (which, in case anybody has tried it, rarely works)? Keep him in exile because he had not the best start?

Maybe your dogs are perfect but there are some who are not, how many times have I heard 'he's only being friendly' or 'sorry he has never done that before'.

It's a bit daft to assume all dogs are sociable and nice and love other dogs, sheesh, even people aren't like that, and they have to go out in public sometimes :p
 
JFTD said:
It's bad enough hanging off the side to clip him on for roads
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I have a back gate form my livery yard directly onto the Forest, bliss. Don't think I'd be able to get down low enough to clip/un-clip him form my 16.3HH!! I do carry his lead just in case but haven't needed to use it yet!
 
When a dog has got my terrified dog pinned down by the neck, ragging on him, I will do anything I need to to make it let go and go away - including kicking it, choking it, whacking it with a bloody great stick if necessary. If the owner doesn't like it, tough, they had their chance to prevent the situation occurring by keeping their dog under control.

Agree that most 'attacks' are nothing of the sort but the above actually happened and, as the dog responsible is still out and about unmuzzled, off the lead, it will likely happen again.

Responsibility is taken for the safety of nervous or injured dogs by keeping them on the lead. It is the responsibility of other dog owners to keep their dogs under close control.

For what it's worth I make the effort to walk at anti social times and in remote places (not that we should have to exile ourselves) - I'm lucky enough to be able to walk in the middle of the day, we often don't see another soul - yet I am still occasionally beset by idiots and their untrained, unsocialised dogs.

I can't point the finger too much, my own came to me untrained and unsocialised, and still are to an extent :p but the difference is that they stay on a lead in public and therefore can't be a bother or harm to anyone.
 
Case in point just yesterday - woman walking along with a collie a good 50 yards ahead of her. Collie goes into a crouch, slinks up to my on lead dogs, hard collie stare. Not knowing what his intentions are I call my dogs to the side of the path and have them sit at my feet, watching me, to allow him to pass.

Collie creeps closer, gets lower, curls back his lip. My dogs bristle at the threat, collie snarls with hackles up, spotty dog shrieks, girl dog snarls back, I pull them back, collie gives a final snarl and hurtles away. Woman has now caught up, didn't see any of her dog's threatening behaviour, gives me and my now wound-up dogs a filthy look and will now probably tell everyone 'those huskies are aggressive, watch out'.

*headdesk*

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OP..I thought I was reading a thread I had started! Exact same thing...& makes me MAD! my reactive boy already has fear of other dogs and it doesn't help to let loose dogs run up when he is obviously being very vocal as scared..will not let him off as he panics & bolts cowering & shaking (new people & new dogs usually have eachother in tow_) you'd think they'd size him up & decide to play it safe...even the owner of the mini dachshund who attacked my boy was rude & shocked that I was trying to get the rabid rat off -no offence to any dachshunds other than the offending one! yes thats right a miniature dachs. attacked my berger blanc suisse...(polar bear size)..mine was on lead yet i get the mouthful..had to pick my boy up (not easy he weighs about the same as I do!) and put the boot in before she would stop it attacking-the polar bear was shaking & terrified....rest assured the woman was suitably hollered at with many expletives in many glorious forms. I shalln't go on as will crash HHO for at least a week if i do! Why do they always assume you have no reason to justify asking them nicely -how dare we be sensible!gr gr gr! Hope your dog is ok..x
 
blackcob said:
Case in point just yesterday - woman walking along with a collie a good 50 yards ahead of her. Collie goes into a crouch, slinks up to my on lead dogs, hard collie stare. Not knowing what his intentions are I call my dogs to the side of the path and have them sit at my feet, watching me, to allow him to pass.

Collie creeps closer, gets lower, curls back his lip. My dogs bristle at the threat, collie snarls with hackles up, spotty dog shrieks, girl dog snarls back, I pull them back, collie gives a final snarl and hurtles away. Woman has now caught up, didn't see any of her dog's threatening behaviour, gives me and my now wound-up dogs a filthy look and will now probably tell everyone 'those huskies are aggressive, watch out'.

*headdesk*

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I'm hijacking your poster..it will be appearing very soon 10 meters before & after every single pace I ever walk..in numerous directions...AMAZING..thank you!! Huskies like my boy are not agressive-I had the pleasure of being welcomed into a pack of 60 when i lived in Finland.. & so feel the need to spread the word that your Huskies are simply telling the other dog to keep its owner under control!:D Humans...who'd have them!
 
burtie said:
I have a back gate form my livery yard directly onto the Forest, bliss. Don't think I'd be able to get down low enough to clip/un-clip him form my 16.3HH!! I do carry his lead just in case but haven't needed to use it yet!
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horseball stirrup strap - I have been known to abuse mine and wear it hacking :cool: I don't need to on the highland though - and the dogs are trained to "jump up" on my ponies shoulders (who are trained to accept it ;) ) - though not to jump up at other horses...

I'm very, very jealous of your hacking. Round here, there is no alternative to roads if you want to hack more than a mile or two (which isn't a hack, imo :D)



btw - anyone asking if their dog can say hi will get a sarcastic reply from me... "really? only if I can film it and put your talking dog on youtube. gotta be some revenue in that somewhere..."
 
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Why should people walk their dog at ungodly hours just to avoid other people failing to put their rude or aggressive dogs on leads, after all we are discussing dog walking etiquette here.

This dosnt affect me personally as mine are always walked on our own land but I feel very strongly about people who cant be arsed to do the right thing or try to train them to not to run up to strange dogs on leads.

I wouldnt run up to a dog on a lead and be all over it even though I am very friendly so why is it all right for your dog to do it.
 
Dobiegirl said:
If you are experiencing being bitten yourself as well as your dog i would be getting the dog warden involved.
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Do dog wardens still exist? Never seen one round here. Instead our parks are patrolled by staffies and their dodgy owners. Quite scary for me and my rather gay-looking fur-ball.

He (dog) was once pinned down by one (staffie) while my ex got into a near-brawl with owner. Was left to me to disentangle them all. Really, for f---s sake, was just trying to have a quiet walk!
 
Dobiegirl said:
Having a fear aggressive dog I completely understand your fears, my dog was made that way by the sort of people you describe.
I would try and avoid going where the vast majority of other people walk their dogs and if possible find someone you could walk with who has nice safe dogs to get your dogs confidence up.
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Some fool with an aggressive dog refused to recall her dog which attacked Zak. :( He was fine with other dogs before this. I could seriously hurt her. :mad:

But where to walk? OH is on night shift but got up at midday to walk Zak but saw 8 other dogs in the local area so had to drive elsewhere. A farmer told him to leash Zak because of loose sheep, fair enough, but it is super hard round here to find somewhere without dogs/livestock.

Dobiegirl said:
If you are experiencing being bitten yourself as well as your dog i would be getting the dog warden involved.
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Call the police. You can have her charged if her dog bit you. :( See the DAA regulations.
 
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SaharaS said:
Huskies like my boy are not agressive-I had the pleasure of being welcomed into a pack of 60 when i lived in Finland.. & so feel the need to spread the word that your Huskies are simply telling the other dog to keep its owner under control!:D Humans...who'd have them!
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Have a read of the blog linked on the bottom of the poster, some good stuff there. :)

It's occurred to me that everyone supporting the rights of on-lead dogs here has breeds which might come under public perception as dangerous/guard/fighting/wolfish dogs - GSDs, dobes, huskies, staffies and crosses thereof. Are we more (paranoid :p) aware of our dog's behaviour in public because of this? Do owners of collies and labs not have this hanging over their heads?
 
Possibly BC, like I said earlier, no one (around here, anyway) wants a GSD charging up to them or their dog.
My work with Boydog was severely impeded by none other than myself, reeling him in, tensing up, making him stop (voila, Mexican stand-off) because I didn't want people thinking ill of him or giving him/the breed in general a bad name. Now we just keep moving and actually the grizzling is much less.
It was always drummed into me to be responsible and protect the reputation of the breed.
 
blackcob said:
Responsibility is taken for the safety of nervous or injured dogs by keeping them on the lead. It is the responsibility of other dog owners to keep their dogs under close control.
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That is correct but I repeat, YOUR dog's safety and wellbeing is YOUR responsibility and YOURS ALONE!

If you have a nervous or injured dog, well, you know that are untrained or possibly aggressive dogs out there so for God's sake, use your common sense and keep your own dog safe! If that means walking it at ungodly hours, then do so! It really isn't rocket science!

No, it's not right that other people can't be asked to train their dogs but it's also not right that people break into your house and steal all your belongings - you do the smart thing and try to protect your property as much as possible with alarms etc - so why would you not do the same for your dogs?!

"It's occurred to me that everyone supporting the rights of on-lead dogs here has breeds which might come under public perception as dangerous/guard/fighting/wolfish dogs - GSDs, dobes, huskies, staffies and crosses thereof. Are we more (paranoid ) aware of our dog's behaviour in public because of this? Do owners of collies and labs not have this hanging over their heads?"

Not correct either, mine are GSD's - and they have been nipped by JRT's, collies and labradors on numerous occassions!
(Notice I use the word 'nipped' rather than 'attacked'!)

All I'm trying to say here is that the world does not revolve around you, we all have to tolerate people and situations we would rather avoid but please deal with the situation, rather than expecting every one else to go out of their way to accomodate you.
 
CC, R hasn't read the rule book and is infinitely better at stopping and doing a watch me than trying to pass briskly (he likes a drive-by lunge but will sit and stare at me for long minutes). Annoyingly, as D is much better with the latter. :rolleyes:
 
Nope, I absolutely cannot accept that by taking out my dog, on a lead, that it is my fault if he gets attacked by another dog. The fault lies entirely with the owner of the other dog.

If we're using analogies I'd liken it to driving cars, I accept a risk in taking my car out on the road, I know there are drunk drivers out there, if you drive into me it's still bloody well your fault. :p
 
blackcob said:
Nope, I absolutely cannot accept that by taking out my dog, on a lead, that it is my fault if he gets attacked by another dog. The fault lies entirely with the owner of the other dog.

If we're using analogies I'd liken it to driving cars, I accept a risk in taking my car out on the road, I know there are drunk drivers out there, if you drive into me it's still bloody well your fault. :p
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Well said:)

Having 2 Dobes I do feel responsibility and I would hate to let the breed or Dobermann welfare down but I feel exactly the same way with our Lancashire Heeler puppy when it comes to rude and out of control dogs.
 
blackcob said:
Nope, I absolutely cannot accept that by taking out my dog, on a lead, that it is my fault if he gets attacked by another dog. The fault lies entirely with the owner of the other dog.

If we're using analogies I'd liken it to driving cars, I accept a risk in taking my car out on the road, I know there are drunk drivers out there, if you drive into me it's still bloody well your fault. :p
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Interesting, you don't seem to expect drunk drivers to go out of their way to avoid hitting you...:confused:

Using that analogy, then why don't you accept that you will meet dogs you would rather not deal with?

Yes, it's the aggressive dog's / owner's fault if it attacks your dog but what good is that to you when it has killed your dog?

I rate the safety of my animals above everything else and if keeping them safe means I have to inconvenience myself then so be it.

Beats spending the rest of my life living with the knowledge that any harm to my dog could have been avoided if only I had taken it on a different route etc.
 
God, which part of what I'm saying do you lot not get?
I did not say that other dog's biting your dog is your fault, for Christ's sake!

What I am saying is that we all have a right to exercise our dogs and if you want to keep your dogs on leads that's fine - but don't expect everyone else to do the same!
Not all dogs that are off the lead are aggressive and you simply CANNOT expect other people to accommodate you! If they want to exercise their well behaved dogs off the lead and that inconveniences you for whatever reason, that is YOUR problem, so YOU need to deal with it!
 
Delta99 said:
Interesting, you don't seem to expect drunk drivers to go out of their way to avoid hitting you...:confused:

Using that analogy, then why don't you accept that you will meet dogs you would rather not deal with?

Yes, it's the aggressive dog's / owner's fault if it attacks your dog but what good is that to you when it has killed your dog?

I rate the safety of my animals above everything else and if keeping them safe means I have to inconvenience myself then so be it.

Beats spending the rest of my life living with the knowledge that any harm to my dog could have been avoided if only I had taken it on a different route etc.
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Isn't this rather typical of the "holier than thou" attitude of HHO? The attitude that somehow it is bc etc being reckless with the safety of their dogs by walking them at a reasonable hour rather than in the middle of the night?

I refuse to live my life in fear of situations which are out of my control. I don't want my horse hit by a car, but I'm not going to stop hacking because of it. I don't want my dog eaten by an escaped wolf, but I won't move to remote island with no zoos to avoid it. Risk management - not risk avoidance - is the only way you can get through life. There are some risks you have to take for your own sanity, for the sanity of your animals, and if you're the unlucky minority who are punished for that choice, you deal with it - and seek (legal) justice against the idiots who caused the situation.

I said earlier that I don't see why I should lead my collie just because someone else has. However, that's with the caveat that I retain control without a leash and can prevent him from approachign a dog by a voice command. Otherwise yes, I damn well should have him on a lead.
 
Nobody said anything about well behaved dogs off lead. The request was simply that said off lead dogs not be permitted to approach those on lead, unless indicated by the owner, as you have no idea whether those dogs are on a lead for a reason.

It's not rocket science, apparently. :p
 
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