Doggy calmers!! Advice/recommendations??

lauraea

lauraea

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Hi all!

So not only do I have a slightly loopy horse currently on magnesium calmer (which works for him :)) but I also actually have an extremely nutty dog!

Although I agree that dogs should be exciteable, happy etc etc.. which he is, I also to a degree do need him to chill out a little. He is an extremely large and heavy american bullweiler (american bulldog x rottweiler) who, for all of his sins, is the most loveable monster I have ever met.

We are working with a dog trainer to socialise and control him better as although he absolutely loves other dogs and just wants to play play play, this can be a problem out walking on the lead as he is extremely strong and when he wants to meet another dog, out comes arm from socket and he is jumping all over the place.

Our dog trainer provided us with a herbal calmer (his wife makes it, so don't know the ingredients) and I actually felt it worked very well. Just took the edge off him, as calmers tend to do with our horses, but he never lost his spark.

Is there anything out there that people have used and is worth a try? Something as natural as possible that I can stick in with his dinner. The herbal calmer from the trainer is extremely expensive and I am pretty damn sure that I could buy the herbs myself at a much much cheaper price...

Hope someone can help! Pictures of Scooby below! (First one when a yr ago when he was a year old, much smaller!) :D

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If he loves that frisbee, let him carry it on walks and ask him to work for it by giving you attention and making yourself the centre of a big game. You have to be more fun than other dogs. No calmer will do that!

I have a very high energy dog, I've rarely seen him tired in four years. He needs a proper offlead blast at least once a day but what calms him down is making him think, so we do lots of training. He gets his dinner and access to toys through training and he has to work things out. I also crate him at night for chill time as he'd have the propensity to do a wall of death around the living room and eat the sofa for fun.

Never actually tried a calmer with him. Tried valerian with my old bitch but didn't make a difference.
 
CorvusCorax said:
If he loves that frisbee, let him carry it on walks and ask him to work for it by giving you attention and making yourself the centre of a big game. You have to be more fun than other dogs. No calmer will do that!

I have a very high energy dog, I've rarely seen him tired in four years. He needs a proper offlead blast at least once a day but what calms him down is making him think, so we do lots of training. He gets his dinner and access to toys through training and he has to work things out. I also crate him at night for chill time as he'd have the propensity to do a wall of death around the living room and eat the sofa for fun.

Never actually tried a calmer with him. Tried valerian with my old bitch but didn't make a difference.
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He does love his frisbee! When we are out the entire walk is based around fetching his frisbee, bringing it back and repeat. We do this around large fields until he tires himself out, lays down and tells me he can't go any further.

In these cases he is far more interested in me than anything else, but this doesn't change how he is walking to and from the field for example and on the lead. There are also occasions where we may be unable to go for a good blast (recently we are losing open fields to walk on.. building sites popping up everywhere) and it means we have to make do with a good walk around on the lead, this is where he turns into a crazy pooch and nothing and no one can snap him out of it until other dog is out of sight.

We are working on this with our trainer and I realise that a calmer is not a quick fix but through using it previously it has really helped just bring things down a notch.
 
Alec has since let me know what he is referring to! I hadn't seen the thread at all previously so completely missed the joke, my apologies.

As I said above, we do everything to ensure we are training and handling him correctly, I am not asking for a quick fix.
 
If he drags you to the field....and he arrives there and fun stuff happens despite him dragging you...he will always drag you to the field!

I used to use onlead walks as training sessions...don't be afraid of walking along with a frisbee stuffed up yer armpit!

Apologies though, you asked for a calmer recommendation, not to be bored to sleep!!!
 
lauraea, to answer your question!!

I too have a Cocker bitch who is truly demented, so I do understand, and she's 3 years old! She's completely off her trolley, and if I don't give her the first 10 minutes in the mornings, then I'll end up swinging for her!

Your saving may well be, as CorvusCorax has suggested, your frisbee. Search exercises could quite easily be set in place, something, anything which will make the dog think and use his nose and his brain. Once you've established a search pattern, then as a frisbee is rather obvious, I'd slowly change it for something much smaller, a tennis ball perhaps. The trick with doing search work is to be certain that you don't sicken the dog during the early stages. I would also, with ALL dogs regardless of age or experience give the searched for item, scent. Scent attachment is best achieved I've found, by carrying the ball under my armpit. The dog will recognise your scent, and as he becomes more proficient at his work, so simply carrying tennis balls in our pockets may well do.

Before you start, I'd run the whole idea passed someone who's local and competent, and they can help you set up a system which will suit your dog.

With dogs such as yours, I suspect, simple and straight forward obedience and discipline, with no end goal for him, will achieve nothing but boredom. I would also be seeking out the lowest protein feed that you can find, as high protein feeds can act upon dogs the way that E additives do in sweets for some children.

Anyway, good luck, he's a handsome dog!

Alec.
 
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CorvusCorax said:
……..

I used to use onlead walks as training sessions...don't be afraid of walking along with a frisbee stuffed up yer armpit!

…….. !!!
Click to expand...

I posted whilst not having seen the above suggestion, and as I explained, what ever we carry under our armpit carries our scent, which is vital if an inexperienced dog is to retain his interest.

I forgot to mention, that I would never give a dog chemical calmers. The odd HHOer, possibly, but we've already covered that!!

Alec.
 
Been there, done that with Zak. Screaming and pulling to get to other dogs which he then tried to kill :(

Our tricks: use the toy, throw, repeat til he decides he's had enough-you're doing this and it's KEY, I can't tell you how important that is. Give him a job, make him find the frisbee from the hedge/behind a tree, whatever.

Teach him to focus on you, not other dogs. That might come with age or aversion therapy type training (not up close!) Ours is made to sit nearby but isn't allowed to interact.

Training or play at home: he needs stimulation in the evening, not just on his walk. Mental stimulation tires ours out as much as the physical (thank god as he has hip dysplasia and can't do too much)

Can you go running/biking with him? Pure exercise!

Teach him that a certain time = no more play and it's quiet time. Ours is 9pm, treat time then he knows it's nap time.

It's taken persistence and absolutely consistency, but it works. Finding a trainer for us was the best move, she really knows the breed, has 3 spaniels and pushes the right buttons.

Best of luck, he looks like a gorgeous boy. :)

I'm another one who says lay off the calmers, you need to exercise and stimulate, not dope him, with chemicals or natural stuff.
 
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Alec Swan said:
lauraea, to answer your question!!

I too have a Cocker bitch who is truly demented, so I do understand, and she's 3 years old! She's completely off her trolley, and if I don't give her the first 10 minutes in the mornings, then I'll end up swinging for her!

Your saving may well be, as CorvusCorax has suggested, your frisbee. Search exercises could quite easily be set in place, something, anything which will make the dog think and use his nose and his brain. Once you've established a search pattern, then as a frisbee is rather obvious, I'd slowly change it for something much smaller, a tennis ball perhaps. The trick with doing search work is to be certain that you don't sicken the dog during the early stages. I would also, with ALL dogs regardless of age or experience give the searched for item, scent. Scent attachment is best achieved I've found, by carrying the ball under my armpit. The dog will recognise your scent, and as he becomes more proficient at his work, so simply carrying tennis balls in our pockets may well do.

Before you start, I'd run the whole idea passed someone who's local and competent, and they can help you set up a system which will suit your dog.

With dogs such as yours, I suspect, simple and straight forward obedience and discipline, with no end goal for him, will achieve nothing but boredom. I would also be seeking out the lowest protein feed that you can find, as high protein feeds can act upon dogs the way that E additives do in sweets for some children.

Anyway, good luck, he's a handsome dog!

Alec.
Click to expand...


Thank you! Both yours and CorvusCorax comments have been helpful. Although it sounds so obvious, I'd never really thought too much about using the frisbee as anything other than a toy that I throw at least 200 times a day! He really is obsessed by it and got through several before I found the kong frisbee can hold it's own between his jaws.

He is only 2 and has actually been with us just a year, which means that crucial first year was not spent socialising or spending as much time off the lead as he should have been. In fact he spent much of his time in a very small kitchen by himself, very sad but that's another story. As I write this he is snoring away as close as he can possibly get to me :)

When I hide things around the house (mostly squeaky toys when it's midnight and he won't sleep) he finds them immediately, even if I have hidden them when he was not looking and in completely random places. When out and about however, we have noticed that even the most highly valued food does not interest him when we try and take his attention away from another dog. Maybe the frisbee is what I am missing, I look forward to trying!

Thanks again :D re: the calmer for HHO, it really doesn't sound such a bad idea when I think back to all the times I've got myself wound up over something that really is nothing. Maybe dog and horse will then pick up on my chilled vibes and show a slightly less demented side of their own :P
 
cinnamontoast said:
Been there, done that with Zak. Screaming and pulling to get to other dogs which he then tried to kill :(

Our tricks: use the toy, throw, repeat til he decides he's had enough-you're doing this and it's KEY, I can't tell you how important that is. Give him a job, make him find the frisbee from the hedge/behind a tree, whatever.

Teach him to focus on you, not other dogs. That might come with age or aversion therapy type training (not up close!) Ours is made to sit nearby but isn't allowed to interact.

Training or play at home: he needs stimulation in the evening, not just on his walk. Mental stimulation tires ours out as much as the physical (thank god as he has hip dysplasia and can't do too much)

Can you go running/biking with him? Pure exercise!

Teach him that a certain time = no more play and it's quiet time. Ours is 9pm, treat time then he knows it's nap time.

It's taken persistence and absolutely consistency, but it works. Finding a trainer for us was the best move, she really knows the breed, has 3 spaniels and pushes the right buttons.

Best of luck, he looks like a gorgeous boy. :)

I'm another one who says lay off the calmers, you need to exercise and stimulate, not dope him, with chemicals or natural stuff.
Click to expand...


Glad to hear that someone else has managed to conquer it, started to feel like he will forever belong in a nuthouse.

Re: your running/biking suggestion.. I would absolutely LOVE to be able to cycle and give him a good run at the same time, but sadly as he is so strong (and currently still difficult on the lead) I think it would be a complete deathwish. One look in the wrong direction from him and it would be game over for me and bike! My brothers GF who lives with us does go running however and takes him with her. She attaches the lead to her waist and I think they generally do ok if avoiding other dogs as much as possible.

Thanks for your comment though :)
 
Plenty of good advice given.
The only thing I'd add is, like others I'm not keen on calmers, but more particularly I'd be very concerned about giving any animal a home made mix that you say you have no idea what it contains.
I may be wrong, but I think it is illegal for anyone except a vet to medicate an animal other than those they personally own.
Even if that is incorrect, I wouldn't be happy to feed a homemade concoction, even some natural products have very different effects on different individuals.

Good luck with your big chap, he is handsome.
 
Handsome boy! Sounds like you're giving him a good blast every day which is great. The only thing I could suggest is; is it possible to increase the frequency of the exercise? So instead of a big long walk/frisbee session, he has two or three? They'd still need to be strenous... I only suggest it because we recently acquired a saluki, and she was the typical high energy nutter at first. They have a lot of stamina as well. We are lucky to have lots of space where she can be off lead, and I find that three walks/opportunities to run about a day seem to be enough. Although she does get the run of the garden whenever we are in too. She's a different dog now, totally relaxed around the place. I suspect if it was one bout though, she'd be a handful!

P.s. don't try the bike thing - I did, and let's just say the saluki wasn't the one who hit the deck ;)
 
Nudibranch said:
Handsome boy! Sounds like you're giving him a good blast every day which is great. The only thing I could suggest is; is it possible to increase the frequency of the exercise? So instead of a big long walk/frisbee session, he has two or three? They'd still need to be strenous... I only suggest it because we recently acquired a saluki, and she was the typical high energy nutter at first. They have a lot of stamina as well. We are lucky to have lots of space where she can be off lead, and I find that three walks/opportunities to run about a day seem to be enough. Although she does get the run of the garden whenever we are in too. She's a different dog now, totally relaxed around the place. I suspect if it was one bout though, she'd be a handful!

P.s. don't try the bike thing - I did, and let's just say the saluki wasn't the one who hit the deck ;)
Click to expand...

With respect, and this is only a potted theory, but I'd worry that the more the exercise so the fitter the dog and the fitter the dog so the more manic it becomes! 30 years ago I had a Cocker bitch which lived in the house. Never have I had a dog quite like her. In the mornings when we came down, she'd do 3 laps around the walls and the sofas, without touching the floor, and she was truly barking. "I'll get the better of you" I thought. I'll wear her down with exercise. It made matters worse! She ended up with the Met Police doing bomb work, she was called Bridie and she was the start of their cocker breeding programme. They loved her, and once she'd found her purpose in life, she calmed down!

Anyway, that's the story of Bridie. She was nuts but became more tractable with something to occupy her mind!!

Alec.
 
my border collie can not stop rounding up my horse - I have tried everything from tying her up next to the horse, carrying her to "meet" - muzzling her - she goes nuts as soon as I or the kids go near the horse.
If you find a solution - please let me know - willing to try everything !"!
 
Pfhalo said:
my border collie can not stop rounding up my horse - I have tried everything from tying her up next to the horse, carrying her to "meet" - muzzling her - she goes nuts as soon as I or the kids go near the horse.
If you find a solution - please let me know - willing to try everything !"!
Click to expand...

Find yourself someone with some sheep. The dog is trying to 'gather' for you, she's trying to 'work' for you. If she didn't do it with the horse, so she would probably do it with your children, or even passing cars (that's when it gets a bit tricky!), ducks, chickens, geese, in fact anything that moves will do! Even a football being gently 'dribbled' will often encourage a dog with strong and instinctive behaviour to show their abilities.

I'm not sure what the answer is, and attempting to stop it will probably fail. I'm no help, I apologise. Such dogs, over the years have been my bread and butter, and when advanced and still young, some of them make decent working dogs.

Alec.
 
thanks ALec - thats exactly what I was thinking - I am trying to get my brother in law to take her out to work the sheep - but as my horsey is causing so much "trouble " (see other thread - need paddock help) I am not sure its going to happen.
we have 600+ ewes on the farm - I hope she will get out to work with them at some point !
 
Okay, while I completely agree that dogs all need an outlet to let off steam - and someone said a three hour walk is a good way to do that...I just wonder here whether or not that getting that fitness up on some dogs is sort of making a rod for one's own back?

Dog needs to let off steam. Take it for a walk, by all means. Then after some time the dog's fitness increases and requires a heavier duty walk to get the edge off. Then a bit more fitness and then the problem is growing? A bit like horses that get in to the silly-half-fit-state, I wonder if dogs don't also get this way?

I have a young poodle, just about to turn a year. I want her fit for showing - rock hard muscles. Our regime is walking, ball throwing, ring craft classes. But it's not enough - on the occasion that I can't get her out to walk or the weather is miserable I have to think of something else to occupy her brain. And trust me it's a very active brain and she creates her own fun if I'm not willing to organise some form of structured play/training regime.

So I hide things round the house. Feed her from dog puzzle things. Teach her a new trick.

Just a musing really.
 
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