dogs 4 us

RubysGold

RubysGold

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I heard on the radio that there is a shop called dogs 4 us that sells pedigree dogs. They make it sound as though a dog is an inanimate object. Isn't it illegal to sell dogs in shops?
Is anyone else completely against this idea? All the dog charities are trying to abolish puppy farming, and surely this shop will allow puppy farming to continue, as all they care about is the profit from selling the dogs, they won't care where they are from!
In believe that dogs should be bought from reputable breeders, and I am so angry at this idea!
Nickie
 
I've copied this of the website:
"The first consideration is the size of dog that you prefer. Would you like a small, medium or large breed. Then you need to consider the amount and type of exercise that you want to commit to, bearing in mind that the larger breeds need more exercise. Another consideration of course is the amount of space available in the house and garden for your dog to roam. "

They make it sound so easy, as though you can just buy one because you feel like it! They make it sound as though you can just chuck one in your house and not exercise it!

Among others, they sell Border Collies, Staffies, Rotties, and English Bull Terriers!
I own Border collies, they need a lot of exercise and something to occupy their minds at all times, they are extremely intelligent animals. And the other 3 have aggressive issues, and are associated with dog attacks, so any man could go into a shop, pick one up and teach it to be a 'guard dog' that will then go out and attack someone and consequently be put to sleep.

The people buying these dogs from a shop probably have a full time job and think they can just leave the dog at home all day! When the dog starts to get behaviour issues, it will find itself sat in kennels looking for a new home, if the owner hasn't had it put to sleep first!

Do the owners of the shop and anyone else involved not realise that this goes against everything that the RSPCA and such charities are trying to avoid?!

Nickie
 
This place is not far from where I live, it used to be called Mayfield Kennels and has been going years. Ive never been though.
 
Definitely don't agree with 'Larger breeds need more exercise' that is totally untrue, my dogs are taller than a Border Collie, but barring one don't need half the exercise that a BC does.
 
If they used to be Mayfield then they really won't care about the homes etc. About 35 years ago a lot of breeders in the M/c area campaigned against them. They used to buy in litters of puppies and then sell them on again, often with the wrong papers, and with no care to the homes they were going to . Mind you some well known breeders were supplying them so really they were the ones at fault. Sounds like this new name is just the same old business. Imo all they do is provide an outlet for the puppy farmers, but if people still won't take the advice to buy from reputable breeders companies like this will always make money.
 
One good thing i can say about this place is they get a vet in to make sure that all puppys are healthy and well looked after.
Who can say a puppy farmer does that they dont, they dont care for the welfare of the pup's, and i'm not being funny but dont tar all rotties, staffies and Englishbull terriers with the same brush. i'm a rottie breeder and if you found out to find what a rottie history was you'd find that there not a fighting breed and never have been.
As for a descent breeder well not all breeders go out of there way to make sure that there dogs are going to good homes and not be used as a guard dog.
The place is licensed so hopefully that means it will have to follow set rules for the welfare of all its animals it sells, which means that a inspection of how the place is run and the welfare of the animal is every now n then.
So i cant really see how anyone can not be happy about it, in my eyes as long as the place if kept an eye on how its puppy's are welfare wise and its kept under a license so that it stays within the guidelines of the law then i dont have a problem with a place like that running.
 
MurphysMinder: Some people may believe that they are reputable as it is a shop, customers are naive a lot of the time.

Karsteine 52: I agree that it is good they have a vet in however I bet they don't pay much attention to who they sell to, unlike a reputable breeder would. So, once they are sold, chances are they won't have a great life.
I am sorry if it sounded like i was tarring those breeds of dogs with the same brush, that was not my intention as it is one of my pet hates. I love all 3 of those breeds and I will buy a staffie once I've moved out of my parents house. My point was that they have that reputation and therefore if dogs 4 us are not careful who they sell them to, they will be sold to the sort of people that give these breeds the reputation they have acquired.
 
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I bet they don't pay much attention to who they sell to, unlike a reputable breeder would. So, once they are sold, chances are they won't have a great life.


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Thing is i know a fair few "Reputable Breeders" out there that dont bother with vet checking the people who come to buy there puppy's that are more than likely going to be in the same boat as those being sold at that shop.
There are many a breeder out there that can be classed as a back street breeder even though they are meant to be reputable.
As for tarring we'll its a big pet hate of mine, knowing there are plenty of people out there who haven't got a clue on how to walk,feed and train a dog and then they wonder why the dog turn's on a human or other dog.
Then it all turns out to be the dog's fault and us who have the brain's to bring a good up in the right home with good training get the backlash from it all.
 
I'm sorry Karsteine52 but as a Rottweiler breeder, you should be up on the barricade against these sort of things, since what they do makes it more likely that Rottweiler could end up being a banned breed.

To just voice a few complaints, first they really make sure that nobody could miss that they offer "6 Month Guarantee", but the only words about what the guarantee is for, that I can find is "For your peace of mind each puppy is covered by a 6 month guarantee."
1 If they're responsible, it should not be difficult for a potential buyer to find out what their guarantee equaled, by a brief and clear, easy to find info somewhere.
2 To many buyers doesn't think longer than "But it said 6 months guarantee" and think that it of course must cover anything and everything, though that is gullible, it doesn't help the puppy.
3 Saying it the way they do, I wouldn't be surprised if that guarantee only covered some silly, highly unlikely thing and nothing else.
4 What happens after those 6 months, do they still care, offer support?


For the second, what happens with unsold puppies? If they're kept for a longer time, how are they kept, do they get socialization to both humans, other dogs and basic home-environments etc?



For the third, they suggest that "You may find it useful to read up about the nature and traits of the different breeds of dog." Suitably enough they have breed specific books for sale, I've looked at more than 10 descriptions now and they all said the same about their books content.
1 They don't offer any info on author, publisher etc, so I have no way of doing an internet search to try and find out if the book/books actually are any good or not.
2 It doesn't say anything about the number of pages, only that it contains more than 100 photos, so for all I know, the chapter about Characteristics of the breed, could be 1 page of text and more than 11 photos.
3 I might be a little picky here, but when the second word to describe all the books always are "attractive", I get suspicious. Have somebody put more effort into making the book look/appear as attractive, than making it "full off helpful hints"?
4 According to my experience, people don't buy one book each about x number of breeds to see which breed suits them best, before they get a dog. No, people choose a breed, buys the puppy and then maybe they also get the breed book.



Then we have the "Our vet attends daily to oversee the health and welfare of the puppies." statement. Excuse me but if they know what they're doing, keep them in appropriate environment, puppies are healthy and well looked after, why do they need a vet to attend daily? Puppies can get ill and accidents can happen, but with good staff, surely they wouldn't need a vet on a daily basis? So a cynical voice in my head says that MAYBE the conditions where they're really kept isn't so good, MAYBE the vet just sticks their head in through the door and says Hello or MAYBE it has something to do with eutha...?


And at last, the only thing that could make that site worse to me, would be if they actually had individual photos on the puppies currently available.
 
I'm not with them or against them, i'm sitting on the fence post so to speak.
The sit gives some good and bad points, being a Rottie breeder i'm all against puppy farmer but i'm also againt so called "Reputable Breeders" who say they give a hoot where there puppys go but never vet check the homes, and yes may give 6 months Free insurance but cant be bothered to help the new owner.
Ive taken you points into account and they are valid ones at that, they thing that keeps me sitting on the post is they say they are a licensed seller. Now that in my eyes mean that some gov official must need to keep on how the puppys are kept, but then again i could be wrong.
Thing is it might seem plain black and white that this place is wrong due to past history or they way the website comes about,
But who has been there recently and see the place and the way the puppys are??
Untill i know for sure that the place is not looking after its puppys welfare correctly then i'll be happy to sit on the fence post.
 
I hvaen't been there recently or seen their facilities, but what I don't agree with is the whole principle . As far as I know they do not breed the puppies they sell, they buy litters in en masse, and imo no responsible breeder would sell their pups in this way. And I wonder, if someone turns up to buy a pup and don't really seem to know what they are doing, would dogs4us turn them away, or sell them a book
frown.gif


If I am wrong about how they trade nowadays I apologise wholeheartedly.
 
I'm usually quite fond of the grey-shades myself, so no matter what I think, I really can't/don't blame you for choosing to sit on the fence. I don't believe all breeders are white innocent lily's, just as in other aspects of life, I know some are good, some are bad and the majority probably somewhere in between.
But just like I compare both the bad and the "normal" breeders towards the good breeder, I compare a company like this to a good breeder. And in comparison to a good breeder and if they really do take good care of the puppies, I still only put them among the "better" half of the bad breeders. The fact that there's worse examples, doesn't make them any better to me.


However, you talk about it as if what mostly matters is how they take care of the puppies. But as I said, I have a few complaints about these things and yesterday I only voiced a few of those that was more focused on what everyone could see (or not see) on their internet site.


For instance, three of my other issues are that :
Regardless of breed, there's different personalities and by buying on a place like this, you're denied the chance to at least meet the broodbitch and view her personality.

I can't help fearing that the breeders that provides them with puppies, might feel that since it's the company that stands for the guarantee towards the buyer, they're not as responsible for the end result as when it's they themselves that are the ones responsible for selling.

A good breeder thinks about their breeds future and wants to have contact with the buyer/buyers, not only to offer support, but also to be able to follow the result of their breeding. How else should they be able to evaluate if their thoughts about the breeding and the "end" result match each other? And thereby gain knowledge about how to try to improve or make just as good combinations in the future.
Therefore I presume that the ones selling their puppies to this place (to sell in their turn), only cares about getting an acceptable breeding result here and now.



So I don't think it's just due to past history that makes me feel so strongly that it's not good to sell puppies this way.



I also want to clarify about my second and fourth (the vet) complaint from yesterday, that I'm not an Everybody-must-be-allowed-to-live-until-God-takes-them-home-fanatic or Everybody-can-be-saved-fanatic, but it does feel wrong to think that they MAYBE euthanize a 6 month old unsold young dog, only to perhaps get in a new litter of puppies of the same breed in about the same time.

I've read several studies that says that the most important socialization period for puppies either are from week 4 to 12 or from week 4 to 16. Though the site doesn't say at what age they get the puppies = having them available for sale, I presume that some (most?) of the puppies spend some of those important weeks at that company's kennel.
So if they then in other hand, doesn't euthanize and unsold puppies stays for months, how does that affect the puppies/young dogs mentality? What happens if/when gullible, soft-hearted people (NOT talking about experienced, knowledgeable people like Cala, that knows what they're doing and how to do it) turns up and want to save the unsold, maybe no longer mentally sound, young dog?
 
I bought a dog from them about 20 years ago. The place was clean and the dogs were very well looked after and she was a fantastic dog - a golden retriever. But to be honest I wasn't an experienced dog owner and didn't really know what I was letting myself in for. They didn't do any checks at all about how I would cope - but you could return the dog (no money back) for rehoming in the first six months if you couldn't cope.
 
Do you know why people will go to places like this? Because they can get a dog without the hassle.

Right now I'm looking for a puppy, I've approached some rescues, but on the whole they've been negative about my chances of getting a youngster of the chosen breed. When one has come up, even though I've enquired within hours, I'm told that they have plenty of interest already.

I've fostered many dogs in the past and have a little rescue lurcher at home already (not what I'm searching for), I'm confident I'd pass a home check, but I can't get one to so much as take my details.

I gave up and started enquiring about puppies from breeders. Out of 7 breeders that I've asked for further information about advertised litters (ages of parents when bred, previous litters and health checks - at no point have I asked how much) do you know how many have bothered to reply? None. Admittedly one was less than 24 hours ago, and the litter wasn't actually advertised for sale. I've always been polite and been prepared to discuss the home and lifestyle offered.

So I can understand why some people will be lured by these sort of places. I won't be personally, but...
 
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but you could return the dog (no money back) for rehoming in the first six months if you couldn't cope.

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Blimey, anything I've bred can come back to me within the whole of its lifetime!
 
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QR....I heard this on the radio before xmas advertising dogs as presents.....it just sounded like a glorified puppy farm IMO.

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Again, most reputable breeders won't advertise puppies over the Christmas period let alone actually sell a puppy as a Christmas present. To actually advertise them as Xmas presents is wrong in my opinion.
 
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