dogs homes, home and abroad?

smokey

smokey

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Thinking about the opinions of lots of people here, regarding rescue horses, and the thought that pts is a better option for them, can we expand that thought to dogs? After the fire in Manchester, and having seen a fb friend fundraising to bring several dogs from kennels abroad, would pts be a better option for many? I'm not talking about every dog, we have a rescue ourselves, adopted from his previous owner. I mean those dogs, rescued as abandoned puppies, who live out their entire lives in rescue centres. Don't jump on me, I'm just pondering! Just wonder what quality of life some of these animals have. And given the huge numbers in rescue centres,is it really feasible, or fair to keep them all alive?

Prepares to be lambasted :)
 
I for one, totally disagree with bringing dogs from abroad to be adopted.

The number of strays in the country/unwanted is enough as it is, without adding more unknown dogs to the mix...id rather see them pts out of their misery than on the street/brought from abroad in quarantine etc

I think some people are convinced they will have a halo around their heads if they bring in dogs from abroad [i do believe its an ego thing] after all, look at it from the dogs pov...would they really want to go through all that? mabey harsh but i do believe its wrong.

I wont be having any more dogs for a very long time once my two pass away - but if i did it would be a uk rescue, not abroad - ever,
 
I agree with that noodle, there are too many abandoned dogs in the UK already. This particular person had a fb begging status, asking people to donate to save an 8yr old dog from abroad. He has spent his entire life so far in rescue. She raised enough in two days to have him castrated, pay his keep until he arrives here, and his flight etc. All on one dog. I just think if she wanted to help, rescue here and fund raise for a more local rescue. I do think there is a definite need to look at euthanizing dogs which face a lifetime of rescue homes, unwanted.
 
Completely agree noodle.
Too many unwanted dogs in this country without shipping them in from abroad.
None of them should be abandoned to their fate, but there is no glory to be had from raising the money to have them quietly put to sleep.
I am involved in two breed rescues so I'm not a hard hearted witch, but many of the dogs in rescue centres in this country should be pts in my opinion.
I strongly believe quality of life is just as important as physical health, and so many dogs live out their lives in rescue kennels because it makes some human feel good. I'm sure these poor dogs are dying inside, even if they appear ok.
But hey ho, while humans mop up the self gratification the dogs will continue to suffer, under the guise of being rescued by these wonderful people.
 
In total agreement here. Not only do I think dogs shouldn't be brought in from abroad, but I also believe that many who are in UK rescue kennels would be better pts. You see these stories meant to tear at the heart strings, about dogs who have been in kennels for many years, or are seriously ill, and the rescues plead for the dog to have "a few months in a home of his/her own". Why are they not painlessly pts rather than either uprooted from somewhere that has been their home for years or put through veterinary treatment in the chance they might be rehomed.
 
I used to think dogs should never be brought in from abroad too. And even now, I have some very mixed feelings on it. But most recently I did bring one in from abroad, which hasn't helped my mixed feelings! Lol!

It's not as simple an issue as you'd first think though. It isn't as simple as 'there are loads of dogs in this country'. It's true, there are endless dogs in rescue that need homes - more than there are homes to take them. But it's also true that many of our dogs in this country are of particular types - I went through many rescues trying to find a dog. Most of the rescue dogs I found were either staffies, lurchers/greyhounds, or terriers - not everyone wants one of those breeds. Of the many rescue dogs that weren't, many are then not suitable with cats or children or other dogs - often they are being asked to be rehomed where there are no other animals. Many rescues I looked at turned down families with children under 10. Once you work through all these points that narrow your choices down, you can then take into account age of dog you want, sex of dog, type, etc - and you suddenly find that your options are very limited.

For us, I didn't necessarily set out to specifically rescue from abroad - I actually had grave reservations about the possibility, and was aware that it could be a real risk. For us, it was about finding the right dog at the right time. And I have NO regrets. Our little dogs is just amazing - we couldn't have been luckier. I am so glad we got her - wherever she came from.
 
I will play devils advocate in here...

Quite a few years ago we tried to re-home a greyhound from one of local rescue centers (not in Kent :P). Apart from hefty rehoming fee (fair enough, dogs arent fed on morning dew), there was fee for a collar, bed, favorite toy... And home checking. Ok, no probs, we lived in the middle of nowhere with miles to run and no major roads around. The only problem was, they hadnt turned up. Apparently, it was good weather and they went to see friends. To say that we were pissed off is complete understatement.
And I know a few people who had tried to give a home to a cat or a dog and had been refused for one reason or another, sometimes on the edge of silliness. Hey, I read few posts here, on the forum.
When we lived abroad, dogs from rescue centers was going to UK, Germany, Netherlands... left, right and center. My Heinz 57's brother is somewhere in UK. To be honest, I think people are just finding easier to give home to "foreign" dog than local.
 
I'm just watching Paul O'Grady at Battersea and there is in my opinion a prime example of a dog who would be better off pts. !2 year old shih tzu whose owner has died, poor little dog has a heart murmur, arthritis, failing eyesight and hearing, and has gone down with bad kc. He is on a drip whilst they fight to save him. I don't know the outcome, but whatever it is , surely this little lad should have been pts on losing his owner rather than placed in Battersea from a loving home. :(
 
Had exactly the same thoughts MM, especially when they were force feeding him slop through a syringe. He did seem to rally in the end and was rehomed, although he still seemed very depressed and going through the motions of existing rather than living a life.
Poor old ******, his beloved owner died, why not just let him go. No, he has to go through weeks of upset and illness, stuck in kennels, only to go to a total stranger. She said she wanted to make his last months or hopefully years, comfortable.
Totally misguided, his last years could have been his perfect ones, with the person he loved, and go when they did.
 
Well, I'm glad to see that others agree with my feeling that it just isn't fair on the dogs in a lot of cases. The particular person who sparked this question posted today that one of the dogs abroad hadn't raised enough money for his flight, and could we all help? I replied asking if someone wishes to adopt, surely they should have the funds themselves, or perhaps the money raised would be put to better use if used for the benefit of all the dogs in that particular kennels, even if only to pts the many who were not being adopted. Cue a sanctimonious reply, swiftly followed by me being unfriended. She's not much of a people person, and clearly doesn't like anyone to tarnish her halo.
I'm thinking of posting a cry for help re my horse, who desperately needs a ranch holiday with her handler (me, of course:D)
 
What I don't like is the hierarchy of hideousness, as if other countries have a monopoly on cruelty and we must save dogs from barbaric nations.

Off the top of my head, in the last few years I've known of four dogs being hanged, two having acid poured on them (one last week) multiple drownings and several set alight. Some dragged from cars, thrown down manholes and one had his ears cut off. Right here in the land of milk and honey.

I also have a massive ethical issue with (often generational, born and bred) street dogs being subjected to the stress of capture, 'imprisonment' export by car, boat or plane then expected to live in a house, with people, of whom there is natural fear and suspicion, as a pet.
Lots of these dogs are on record as escaping or slipping their leads soon after arriving here. They don't understand the concept of being 'saved' or 'loved' - those are human constructs. They just want to get the hell away from all the stress they are being subjected to.
Of course there are dogs who adapt but it's not something I would subject a dog to.

I also know people who say 'I consider my dog a rescue'....when their dog was bought and paid for. They may have taken a dog from a not-ideal-in-their-eyes situation to a slightly better one...but that's not rescue.


Argh don't start me!!!!
 
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C_C, those are the thoughts of someone with a well grounded and sound understanding of the canine. However well intentioned there are still too many who 'rescue', and not for the dog, but for themselves. Keeping what are ostensibly wild animals in cages, and again, however well intentioned, is wrong and to most of these feral creatures a room is a cage. For those over 12 months, humane euthanasia is generally the kinder option.

Alec.
 
I absolutely agree that PTS is a far better option for some dogs in rescue. I got to know a springer who was in a local rescue. He suffered from arthritis, he couldn't be rehomed in a 'normal' home situation and would need to live outside with no other animals. He was in a concrete and metal pen, looking desperately sad last time I saw him. He was PTS on vet's advice soon after but had looked sad for months. :(

I think we anthropomorphise far too much and we should stop trying to save every poor soul that we find.

Brutally, why keep and pay for an aggressive dog for years when there's a well socialised dog being PTS for lack of space next door and why import dozens of dogs when our rescues are overflowing?
 
In a perfect 'fluffy bunny' world there would be absolutely no need whatsoever for dog rescue centres of any kind, be they smaller breed rescues or the larger general rescues. Sadly this nirvana would rely on each owner taking full and complete responsibility for their canine companion(s). This will never happen in my lifetime therefore rescues are there to pick up the pieces every time.

Obtaining and keeping charitable status for a rescue affords certain benefits (gift aid etc) so keeping this status is very important. There are a million and one different hoops to jump through to obtain charitable status and I wouldn't have thought any rescue would risk this by putting to sleep perfectly healthy dogs just because they are the wrong breed, colour, age or sex (yep most people want a bitch).

I kind of understand why people turn to overseas dogs as they may have had a 'knock back' from a UK rescue, maybe after a home visit or they have young kids but this is mainly due to the litigious society we now exist in - where there's blame, there's a claim!! Rescues do make mistakes sometimes when re homing dogs but do the press focus on the 99% of successful adoptions? Do they eck.............

At the end of the day an owner will say anything when they're handing over a 'much loved' pet. They aren't going to say "oh yeah, he bit the grandchild several times". Strays are a total unknown quantity hence why they are rarely rehomed with young children.

It's a sad fact of life that we live in a 'throw away' world and for some people the dog is just as easy to throw away as yesterday's newspaper.

I shall climb down off my soapbox now.
 
Just coming back to this thread because another thread has jolted my memory a bit.

I have withdrawn almost completely from nearly all the rescues I used to support for a number of reasons -

Personality clashes coming before the dogs (Usually always linked to large groups of women. Sadly.) and played out on social media while the whole thing implodes, to the detriment of the dogs.
Hysteria when it is suggested a dog be better off put to sleep.
Hysteria when it is suggested that behavioural problems be treated with anything less than 'love'.
Good intent transforming into hoarding, again, to the detriment of the dogs.

One of the few I do still support refuses to take money, only food, leads, bedding, vets bills directly to vet etc, which I am happy to oblige as I have a lead and ball fetish and it means my conscience is clear when I decide to buy more :p
All dogs run as a pack through the fields and get to play in the river every day. Prospective rehomers must spend a few sessions walking with the pack and working with the dogs to select the right one. Bouncebacks are minimal, as by the time they leave, the dogs are well socialised and get the chance to toilet outside of their kennels, making them much easier for newbie owners to cope with.
Each and every contributor is thanked publicly.
Oh and a man runs it, surprisingly enough!!!!
 
CorvusCorax said:
I also have a massive ethical issue with (often generational, born and bred) street dogs being subjected to the stress of capture, 'imprisonment' export by car, boat or plane then expected to live in a house, with people, of whom there is natural fear and suspicion, as a pet.
Lots of these dogs are on record as escaping or slipping their leads soon after arriving here. They don't understand the concept of being 'saved' or 'loved' - those are human constructs. They just want to get the hell away from all the stress they are being subjected to.
Of course there are dogs who adapt but it's not something I would subject a dog to.
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Argh, this. There's an epidemic of Romanian rescue dogs amongst the agility crowd at present and the number who escape within hours of being placed in the UK is ridiculous, as are the expectations placed upon some of these completely shut-down dogs.

Second point - I've lost count of the number of people who tell me they rescued a puppy from a puppy farm by paying £600 for it. I paid £100 for a second hand dog, it is called 'rehoming' (and is often not a very clever thing to do if you value your sanity, home or bank balance).

Brutally, why keep and pay for an aggressive dog for years when there's a well socialised dog being PTS for lack of space next door and why import dozens of dogs when our rescues are overflowing?
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I'm not anti-euthanasia but just to balance the discussion our local council pound successfully rehomed a dog that had been there for nine (!) years. Reports from his new owners frequently crop up and he's having a fantastic life - including quickly overcoming his dog aggression once out of kennels. http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/...-life-after-nine-years-in-shropshire-kennels/

Dunno where I'm going with any of this, just musings. I'm currently experiencing some guilt at the realisation that my next dog will likely be a puppy from a breeder, not another rescue - to listen to some of the rescue frothers I'll be condemning another dog to die. I probably already have, having failed to convince my mother to have a rescue dog, she's got a £££ puppy arriving in a couple of weeks.
 
More musings based on your musings :p
My argument always was, I'd never find a dog in a pound that would be able to do what I want to do with it. If I was, everyone would be doing that rather than paying £££ for dogs from certain bloodlines.

I was told recently that a dog handed into a pound a few hundred miles away with papers, is vaguely related to mine (cousin or some such :p) new owners took him to a training club at suggestion of agility trainer and he's now flying apparently. That's an exception I realise, and also proves that genetics are genetics.
 
I got lucky with D and agility - she is still improving and has more wins to come. Bit of a double fluke there given the unlikely breed as well. I have however reached their limit in racing terms and they will never be truly competitive there. I don't mind so much, it's still great fun for all of us but being constantly exposed to certain lines of dogs with drive and speed in bucketloads I am getting a touch of the green eyed monster.

Anyway, point is neither dog was obtained solely for sport so anything I get is a nice extra. Future dog needs to exceed these expectations - yup, unlikely to come about through rescue. But as someone with the capability to turn around a dog with certain issues, in a breed in crisis in the UK, do I have a 'duty' to stick with rescues instead?

You know what I mean. I think. Anyway, FAO the spaniel mafia the new addition is a show type cocker so I may shortly be grilling you on what on earth to do with it. :p
 
Have just seen this on facebook, have hidden the dogs name so she and the rescue involved can't be identified. Why wasn't this poor bitch pts as her owners family had wanted. :(

xxxx came into the rescue as her owner sadly passed away a couple of weeks ago, xxxx is approx 12 years old Blind, has a tumour on her vulva, has hip problems as well as a skin condition. The family had booked xxxx to be (PTS) "put to sleep" until neighbours saved her and contacted the rescue for help,xxxx with the stress of losing her Dad (owner) had started to bite at her paws hence the bandages now in place, she had sat at his bedside for days whilst in a coma until sadly he passed, we could not see xxx suffer and has herself not a long life left ahead. I have fostered xxxx along with help of the rescue volunteers to enable her to live her life as comfortable as possible with as much love we can give, xxxx now is settling and enjoying company of our 4 other dogs.
 
Disgraceful. no one will convince me that any sane person thinks that is best for the poor dog.
Who will rescue the dogs from the batty self centred rescuers.
 
MurphysMinder said:
Have just seen this on facebook, have hidden the dogs name so she and the rescue involved can't be identified. Why wasn't this poor bitch pts as her owners family had wanted. :(

xxxx came into the rescue as her owner sadly passed away a couple of weeks ago, xxxx is approx 12 years old Blind, has a tumour on her vulva, has hip problems as well as a skin condition. The family had booked xxxx to be (PTS) "put to sleep" until neighbours saved her and contacted the rescue for help,xxxx with the stress of losing her Dad (owner) had started to bite at her paws hence the bandages now in place, she had sat at his bedside for days whilst in a coma until sadly he passed, we could not see xxx suffer and has herself not a long life left ahead. I have fostered xxxx along with help of the rescue volunteers to enable her to live her life as comfortable as possible with as much love we can give, xxxx now is settling and enjoying company of our 4 other dogs.
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I think it is quite disgraceful. In my opinion, that is not rescuing/saving with the animal's best in interest, they're doing it for themselves. It is an older dog, which have serious health problems, so regardless whether her owner had died or not, I would think it was justifiable to euthanise her.
Most dogs that I've met, tries to make the best out of the situation, and would, if it is possible, not want to reveal any health weaknesses in front of new dogs. So only because she is "settling and enjoying company of our 4 other dogs", I don't see that as proof of that "saving" her was the right thing to do.
 
I feel so sorry for that little dog, her beloved owner has died and she's now temporarily living in a new place with 4 strange dogs and then if she finds a home will be uprooted again. How anyone can think they are 'saving' her is beyond me, seriously deluded people. :(
 
I have always wondered at the dogs trust slogan `we never put a healthy dog down`

maybe if they have no hope of a home then pts would be a better option and the money saved be spent on neutering vouchers?
 
Honestly, I'd rather have two out of three of mine PTS if we died, poor little lads wouldn't cope with new homes and the third would probably die without his brother. So stupid to preserve life at all costs :(
 
Cahill said:
I have always wondered at the dogs trust slogan `we never put a healthy dog down`

maybe if they have no hope of a home then pts would be a better option and the money saved be spent on neutering vouchers?
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I've only just read this thread Cahill, and that was exactly the slogan that came to my mind - they never put a PHYSICALLY healthy dog down (allegedly) but mental health is a whole different matter!

I despair of rescue organisations who spend hundreds if not thousands of pounds on veterinary treatment for a dog which will have very little quality of life even after the treatment, when this money could (in my opinion) be much better spent elsewhere. I am ambivalent about dogs who have been in kennels for many years - rescue greyhounds adapt to their new lifestyle and home very well in most cases :) - but sometimes I wonder WHY the dog has been 'overlooked' for re-homing for so long. Or there are those poor dogs who are re-homed and returned many times; not only a case of the rescue organisation/centre getting it wrong in terms of finding the right home, but often because the dog in question is displaying behavioural problems which make it difficult to cope with.

Whilst I cannot personally support rescuing (for example) street dogs from abroad and bringing them to the UK for re-homing, I also know that I would be hypocritical to say I don't support bringing dogs in from abroad for adoption - 3 out of my 4 greyhounds were bred in Ireland for the racing industry, which apparently breeds 10,000 greyhounds a year :( (nope, don't quote me on that because I cannot remember/identify my source!)
 
cinnamontoast said:
Honestly, I'd rather have two out of three of mine PTS if we died, poor little lads wouldn't cope with new homes and the third would probably die without his brother. So stupid to preserve life at all costs :(
Click to expand...


Can you just imagine if we had this attitude with humans? 'Well, now Grandad has died, Nan just won't cope, especially with her arthritis, diabetes and heart murmur. The kindest thing would be to put her to sleep too.'

I am not saying that this is necessarily how I feel, I do agree that some dogs should be pts as they cannot possibly be guaranteed a good quality of life, but I do also entirely understand the perspective of those rescuers, from the UK and abroad, who do not like to see an animal be euthanised because they are considered 'surplus' or 'unsociable'. The problem is, on the whole we humanise our animals which makes it difficult to separate the emotions with reality.

I read this article the other day about a girl who is trying to bring a puppy over to the UK and find him a home. Here's the link:
http://content.tailster.com/blog/urgent-appeal-help-us-bring-hilton-uk/

I imagine if a large percentage of dog lovers were faced with an abandoned dog while on holiday we would try and do something. The article does explain why she is trying to help but what do you think? I think I'd try and save him.. but then again I am a softie.
 
Funnily enough, I have just done a work trip with a girl that brings dogs over from Romania. Initially I didn't know how I felt, but I can definitely say that she makes absolutely no money from it. At all. She spends every penny she has on neutering and vets bills. She did it out of heart, and nothing else. One of the puppies died while we were about to take off, and we had to hide her from the service for ten minutes, she was so upset. She started it with a friend who went to live over there, and they couldn't bear to see dogs being clubbed on the streets. The pound doesn't have walls, the dogs never get exercise, they just sit there dying slowly. They won't spent the money putting them down, they just feed them paraffin until they die after being very sick. In winter, the snow comes and a lot of them die of cold in the cages.

I do agree that there are loads of dogs that need help in this country without bringing more in, but if you've actually seen it over there I can see how it could haunt you and prompt you to do something. She works via Facebook, and a lot of dogs go all over Europe to homes.

Oh, and just for information, the dogs have their jabs and are wormed before coming. They have rabies jabs too, then they go to a kennel in the uk, usually for one or two days, until a DEFRA vet inspects them, so there is no long quarantine. She says it costs her around £200 to get a dog over. This lady had no family or husband, these dogs were her life. When the rest of the crew were going off for pedicures on arrival we couldn't persuade her to come as she didn't want to waste money that could be spent on a dog. Rightly or wrongly it was her passion, her life.
 
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