Dominance in field....wwyd?

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I have a cob who is very bossy in the field and will lift a hind leg on occasions. This is mainly an issue when catching or feeding as he insists on being the first to being dealt with. Also the cob is a git to catch unless I have a treat, which can cause jealousy.

I have just bought a new horse and have put him in with this cob. He is submissive and seems generally happy to be 'bossed' around, but did notice the cob kick out at him last night when I went to fetch in.

As the new horse is a young comp prospect would you separate? For my peace of mind they can be in the same field, just split into 2 with electrice fencing, but equally seems a shame to not allow them to be 'horses'? Or is it better to let the new horse learn to not get in the way of the cob, but in the meantime possibly risking injury?

What would you do?
 
I've never paddocked a competition horse with another horse. To much potential for an accident.

They've always had plenty of neighbours for company.
 
I personally would separate them. Mine are separated for this reason. My coloured boy is quite submissive and he has been kicked by a previous horse, twice on bridge of nose and once on the splint bone.
The other horse i have now is very playful and i just dont want them injured. They seem fine separated. I would love to keep them together so they could socialise but its too big a risk.
 
Had a similar situation myself recently. IMO I tend to just let them be horses and sort it out themselves. My newbie has now settled in the herd and is quite happy to be bottom of the pecking order!
 
If the cob is just giving warnings & the other submits, I'd leave them to it, its just normal. If the cob is making contact, or the other is showing signs he's planning on standing his ground, then whilst I wouldn't separate straight away, I'd avoid situations which could result in fighting. Eg not feed in field, have two people catch them at the same time etc.
 
Thanks all.

Faracat - yes the cob does have shoes on but as is still hunting weekly, removal is not an option.

It is a really annoying situation as both enjoy each others company, but the cob's personality just gets in the way....bl**dy thing!
 
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Going through what I am going through atm I would urge you separate.

I ignored my horse being out with a dominant character and it landed him a GA, four day hospital day and 9 stitches. *ets it very nearly killed him, the kicker is a big shod cob who meant business. they also seemed to get along ok but for odd occasions, mine would always move but on this occasion not fast enough.

I recently posted a thread about individual turnout as its something I have never done and the majority vote was that as long as horses can see each other they should be quite happy...
 
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Sidney said:
It is a really annoying situation as both enjoy each others company, but the cob's personality just gets in the way....
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But you can do a lot to manage this.

Don't feed in the field, don't treat, ensure he's always the first horse brought in etc.
 
We have always had ours all out together and have always had one dominant gelding. However, they are generally pretty good when us humans are in the field and there'sonly any bickering etc if they feel there's food about. Therefore the best thing to do is NOT take food in to the field with you.

I prefer horses to be horses and, providing the field is big enough for them to keep out the way of each other there really shouldn't be an issue. This is how a horse herd works, there is going to be a hierarchy/pecking order. I would only consider removing a dominant horse if that horse was aggressive/dangerous and was charging at others, not letting up and meant business. If that horse is just keeping others from it's personal space and keeping them 'in check' then I'd let them be.

I do always take several weeks before introducing a new horse to the herd though as ours is very established. I would never just chuck a new horse in and "let them sort it out". Also, if I felt the new horse was a tad 'thick' and hadn't ever been socialised properly in a herd before then I would take a very long time over introductions. A horse that doesn't understand natural horse behaviour can get itself in to serious problems. My friend learnt this the hard way as she lost a new horse to a kick injury. The previous owne rnever told her this horse had never been mixed with others!
 
Totally agree re the food/treats and never bucket feed/hay the cob in the field.

However the 'git' cob won't be caught unless I have a treat - I have owned him for 4 yrs and have tried every alternative!

They are hugely comapnionable until I go to catch as both come over to me, then cob pushes new boy out of the way...resulting in a lifted leg yesterday. He caught the new one on the flank but luckily had a heavy weight rug on so no harm done.

I think I will have to separate if just for peace of mind....
 
No, I wouldn't separate unless the young competition prospect has another companion to go in with.

I really dislike it when horses are kept alone, especially youngsters. My own youngster turns into a different horse (& not for the better) if I have to keep him separated for any reason.

There have been previous threads on here where people have a youngster behaving badly on the ground and the general consensus has been because the horse is on individual turnout.

I would choose to learn another method of catching the cob!!!
 
Sidney said:
Totally agree re the food/treats and never bucket feed/hay the cob in the field.

However the 'git' cob won't be caught unless I have a treat - I have owned him for 4 yrs and have tried every alternative!

They are hugely comapnionable until I go to catch as both come over to me, then cob pushes new boy out of the way...resulting in a lifted leg yesterday. He caught the new one on the flank but luckily had a heavy weight rug on so no harm done.

I think I will have to separate if just for peace of mind....
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I think this is just normal behaviour to be honest and, if they are good friends otherwise then it would be a shame to separate them. My horse and my sister's horse can't bear to be away from each other at a show and will neigh/whicker at each other a lot. However, in the field my horse is higher up in the pecking order and can be a bit of a horror to the others including my sister's horse. However, it really is only the odd bit of argy bargy and, in the main they all get on very well. The behaviour you're talking about wouldnot concern me but I would just maybe consider how I was going about catching the horses if I were you. Does the cob bother you once you've caught the other horse?
I would be considering taking a schooling whip out with me to be honest if the cob needs to be reminded of your personal space, and to get him to back away from you and the other horse when asked.
 
amymay said:
If the cob is a kicker - then he wouldn't be in with anyone, I'm afraid.
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This.

When you know you have a problem I cannot see the point of just waiting for the inevitable to happen. As long as they can see one another, individual turnout saves huge vet bills or worse, heartache and keeps the horse safe.
 
Can you fence off a small area of the field to create a pen of some sort?
Put the dominant cob in the pen then deal with the new horse.

I have the same problem but my youngster is forest bred, knows how to react with a bossy mare and keeps well away when I get to the field. I put the older mare in the fenced off bit and then go to mine.

When we are not around, they graze together and seem to get on. But I did keep them separated for a couple of weeks initially.

Also I don't ever feed anything at the gate. If the older mare wants hay/food, she has to go in the enclosure where the field shelters are.
 
Sidney said:
However the 'git' cob won't be caught unless I have a treat - I have owned him for 4 yrs and have tried every alternative!

They are hugely comapnionable until I go to catch as both come over to me, then cob pushes new boy out of the way...resulting in a lifted leg yesterday. He caught the new one on the flank but luckily had a heavy weight rug on so no harm done.
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What happens when cob comes over to you then, how doesn't he let you catch him?
 
I lost my beautiful girl to a kick in the field. Horse was a known kicker/bully just not known to me! If I'd known I'd never have put her in that position. I don't like
 
The main problem as I see it is that horses I believe are very precise with their kicks, how hard and where.
However we stick a metal slab on the bottom of the hoof turning it into a far more dangerous weapon which the horse has no control over...
 
I'm very pro not separating unless completely necessary. So my answer would depend on how the young horse behaves around cob. If cob is fine apart from when you are there to catch, and young horse quickly learns to back off and let cob be caught first the I'd keep them together.

If not I'd consider separating them at least temporarily. Possibly until end of hunting season, then take off cobs back shoes and introduce them again?
 
Thanks all very much - I have just been out in the snow and put up some electic fencing and they are happily grazing on either side, so problem temporaily solved.

Amy May - the catching issue with the cob is that he will that he will ****** off if I approach him to catch, but if I leave a field safe head collar on and offer a treat he will always let me catch him. Equally at coming in time he will come over to the fence, with the other following close behind, and again we will try to chase the other off so gets caught and brought in first.

I know I have made a rod for my own back re the catching issue but just don't have the pateience or time to be chasing him around the field! We have always called him 'self important cob' but other than that, he is a dream to handle and not bullish in any way to humans - just occasionally to other horses.

So to catch him the new horse has cottoned on that I have a biscuit in my hand and comes over to see if is going to get one too, which is when the cob can take a swing. One both caught they lead in nicely.

The new horse is quite sensitive so if I used a schooling whip around the cob I would be worried that I make the cob worse to catch, also scaring off the new one.

Ihatework - agreed re the shoeing issue and maybe something to consider.
 
My mare is bossy with her companion mainly at feed time, although not a kicker more of a chaser. I have a gate at the side of the field, made an electric fence line just before this gate across the field, so if I want to take one of my horses out the other remains in the main area. I think it is always ideal to have a double gate or corale in a gate area and I use this to separate them at feed time as well. I leave one end of the electric fence open the rest of the time. I would make a pen to put him in if it is only at feed/coming in time, otherwise I would consider separating.
 
I would separate without a doubt, especially if you can't remove the cob's hind shoes. I have seen too many horses lost to a kicker. I have a cob here that has to be kept separate. He will run other horses down and corner them and then back up and kick. :mad: We thought all was well a couple of years ago and gave him another chance as he was being so friendly over the fence and gooming others over the fence etc. But as soon as he got in with the herd, he singled out a TB mare and chased her round and round to get her in a corner. We took him straight out again. Last year I made an error and didn't notice the high winds had blown the electric fencing down. When I turned him out he spotted it straight away and jumped over the tape into the next field. The field had three other geldings that he had been 'lovey dovey' with over the fence all Spring. In the one minute it took me to go in and extract him, he had booted two of them in the chest! Thankfully, he does not have shoes on and there was no harm done. But I think that cobs can be right stubborn and dominant sods when they are that way inclined.
 
If he's actually making contact, rather than just threats from a distance, then I'd separate, much as I'd hate to, until cobs hind shoes can come off end of season. Then try again in summer when I'm guessing with the grass neither will be in a hurry to come in.
Re the treats, I've always given my oldie something when I catch her. Not cos she's anything but easy to catch, just cos I like to. And having been the indisputable leader of every group she's ever been in, it would never be a problem for me & her, nothing would try & interfere with her. But, because I don't want any others scrapping between themselves, if she is near others, she gets her treat once outside the gate, or even when in if catching two. And she knows it, might be worth maybe mixing it up with yours a bit too?
 
ihatework said:
I'm very pro not separating unless completely necessary. So my answer would depend on how the young horse behaves around cob. If cob is fine apart from when you are there to catch, and young horse quickly learns to back off and let cob be caught first the I'd keep them together.

If not I'd consider separating them at least temporarily. Possibly until end of hunting season, then take off cobs back shoes and introduce them again?
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This, in an ideal world. I hope they both settle down quickly! :D
 
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