Dominant horse hates contact

[RockyB]

I bought my horse (Holsteiner 12 yo gelding) 6 months ago. I knew he was having problems with contact when I bought him so it was no surprise to me. He is such a wonderful horse (with some issues obviously) and I am obsessed with him. :love:

About the contact. He hates it, fights it, resists it.
At first I thought he was having some pain problems so I did everything to check he is fine. And he is, he is in NO pain. His back is fine, his teeth are great, his legs are fine, his stomach has no ulcers. I had the saddle fitted and he is using an anatomical bridle with single jointed bit (I tried MANY different bits).

Now I know, it is the character. He is the leader of the herd and wants things to be done his way.
I can ride him in longer reins in REALLY light or no contact and he goes great. He responds really well to leg pressure. When I take a little more contact he goes into the Giraffe mode (head up, hollow back, bit chomping). But I cant always ride him with little or no contact because I dont feel so safe.
I can make him go forward, apply light contact (loops in reins), and he eventually lowers his head but that is not being "on the bit".

Let me just tell you, he is amazing at ground work. When hacking he goes crazy if he walks behind another horse. He roots, wants to go faster and faster, shakes head...not fun at all.

What can I do?

 

[Orangehorse]

Don't know, all I could think is to take him to a bit clinic. Yards do organise them sometimes, keep your ear to the ground.

Other than that, get a good instructor to give you lessons. One that has experience in breaking and producing lots of horses and hopefully they could point you in the way of a solution.

Presumably, having got to 12, he is quite rideable and controlable. So maybe you are riding him in a very different way to what he has been used to and it is strange for him. I doubt if he is "dominant" more likely that he doesn't understand what you want and he can only communicate in his language.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

There are far more experienced people who will hopefully come along soon and say their bit but thought I would share my experience as my mare was very similar in that she would throw her head up at the slightest contact and go completely hollow to the point where she built up a lot of muscle underneath her neck.

I did same as you, all the checks, bit fit, bridle fit, saddle etc etc. Eventually via X-ray we found one of her molars was fractured but inside her gum, the root. To the naked eye the tooth looked fine. Took the tooth out and lots of time spent on a loose rein doing suppling work and I can now take up a contact and she's working from behind properly. But it was a very softly softly approach. Loads of lateral work, pole work, walking/trotting up hills. And hours and hours of lessons.

I had instructors suggest draw reins, pessoas etc but it just didn't sit right with me. Also, maybe it's coincidence but my mare really seemed to take a big leap forward when I moved to a DIY yard and started feeding her hay from the floor in her stable plus she also went into a field with a lot more grass. I honestly think having her head down in a natural grazing position for more hours in the day helped all the muscles stretch and relax over her back and neck. Then the schooling helped build the correct muscle to allow her to work properly from behind and over her back.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I wonder if you need the contact to 'feel safe', if that is the problem. It might be my misunderstanding what/how you have written it but that sounds as if you 'hang onto' the contact. Perhaps an instructor could help.

 

[RockyB]

Don't know, all I could think is to take him to a bit clinic. Yards do organise them sometimes, keep your ear to the ground.

Other than that, get a good instructor to give you lessons. One that has experience in breaking and producing lots of horses and hopefully they could point you in the way of a solution.

Presumably, having got to 12, he is quite rideable and controlable. So maybe you are riding him in a very different way to what he has been used to and it is strange for him. I doubt if he is "dominant" more likely that he doesn't understand what you want and he can only communicate in his language.

Thank you.

Let me just say, he is much better with me than with his previous owner. He was in 100% giraffe mode. So thats not it. ((

 

[RockyB]

I wonder if you need the contact to 'feel safe', if that is the problem. It might be my misunderstanding what/how you have written it but that sounds as if you 'hang onto' the contact. Perhaps an instructor could help.

No, no, I dont hang onto the contact. I can ride him without it, but he can be .... naughty. So a little contact is necessary.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thank you.

Let me just say, he is much better with me than with his previous owner. He was in 100% giraffe mode. So thats not it. ((

It could be that he needs time to get used to not having the rider hanging on.

 

[Orangehorse]

There are far more experienced people who will hopefully come along soon and say their bit but thought I would share my experience as my mare was very similar in that she would throw her head up at the slightest contact and go completely hollow to the point where she built up a lot of muscle underneath her neck.

I did same as you, all the checks, bit fit, bridle fit, saddle etc etc. Eventually via X-ray we found one of her molars was fractured but inside her gum, the root. To the naked eye the tooth looked fine. Took the tooth out and lots of time spent on a loose rein doing suppling work and I can now take up a contact and she's working from behind properly. But it was a very softly softly approach. Loads of lateral work, pole work, walking/trotting up hills. And hours and hours of lessons.

I had instructors suggest draw reins, pessoas etc but it just didn't sit right with me. Also, maybe it's coincidence but my mare really seemed to take a big leap forward when I moved to 'sa DIY yard and started feeding her hay from the floor in her stable plus she also went into a field with a lot more grass. I honestly think having her head down in a natural grazing position for more hours in the day helped all the muscles stretch and relax over her back and neck. Then the schooling helped build the correct muscle to allow her to work properly from behind and over her back.

That's an encouraging story - and totally correct. And I agree with you that the sort of instructor should be sympathetic with lots of experience and not one to suggest draw reins, etc. The horse is telling you something.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would say it's nothing to do with dominance it's a case of him never really been taught properly to accept it, it's years of him just being allowed to go around with his nose in the air, so of course it's going to take a lot longer to change that way of going it's going to take time and patience, it's also a balance thing to work in an outline the horse needs the correct muscles to do so which he doesn't.

I would find a really good sympathetic trainer and take it slowly it's definitely not impossible, my friend bought a 9 year old pony that had only been hacked and hunted never schooled had no idea how to work in an outline, struggled just doing a circle and basic school exercises, her and her daughter competeted the pony for years went affiliated and went up the ranks fairly quickly.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

That's an encouraging story - and totally correct. And I agree with you that the sort of instructor should be sympathetic with lots of experience and not one to suggest draw reins, etc. The horse is telling you something.

It might be worth you reading Amber's Echo's report about Toby's vet consultation with Tom Beech, which she has put on her long running thread today.

 

[sportsmansB]

I wouldn't really link incorrect way of going under saddle to dominance particularly, it is a schooling issue.


What does your instructor say? It seems more like some instructions from you to the horse are getting lost in translation

 

[Bellaboo18]

I'd forget the idea it's because of his 'dominant' nature straight away and enrol a good instructor.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I tend to end up with horses with naturally very high head carriage mainly due to the kinds of horses I like - Arabs etc.

I would try to stop thinking about contact and engagement being about bringing the horse’s head down but about getting the horse to engage it’s whole body. I’d work on bending and balancing instead of getting the horse “onto the bit.” Lots of circles and serpentines, and getting the horse to bend right through its spine. Flexibility isn’t only about bringing their head down. I’d try to focus on creating a nice, flowing rhythm - I happily sing to my horses like a total nutter but it helps me keep my breathing even. The more flexible and balanced they are, the more likely that they will relax and start to work in a nice frame. I almost see the frame as a bi-product though, it’s not the sole focus of my instructions to the horse.

I don’t ride seriously though, or compete so I appreciate getting the horse onto the bit is less important to me than it might be for others.

 

[paddi22]

what level was the horse working at before you got him? has he any competition record etc? and what level would you ride at yourself?

 

[PSD]

It could well be that he has never been schooled correctly and so when asked for the contact he avoids it because he doesn’t feel comfortable working that way.

My instructor always tells me that it’s like us going to the gym using new muscles, it hurts for a while. But once we build those muscles it stops hurting as much. It could be that he’s being asked to use himself correctly and it’s making him uncomfortable because he doesn’t have the muscle strength in the right places. Definitely seek advice from your instructor though.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Get a good instructor. My tb hates firm contact. I've tried everything to get him in a nice collected frame over 3 years so definitely not rushed. All checks done, loads of lessons, it's just him, he doesn't like a furm contact. We do a really decent dressage test on the contact that suits him, it keeps him relaxed and happy and that's all I'm bothered about. Will probably get crucified when we go elementary later this summer but as long as my boy is happy and relaxed then I will settle for that!

 

[Lois Lame]

...
I can make him go forward, apply light contact (loops in reins), and he eventually lowers his head but that is not being "on the bit".

I have the feeling that this is the root of the problem.

Don't think about riding him 'on the bit'.

I don't know enough to help further. Let him find his balance, his comfortable position, and, when and if he wants to, the contact. Your job is to find your balance, your position and to 'get out of his way' so that he can get on with what he needs to do, which is to find his balance with a rider.

 

[Lois Lame]

I doubt if he is "dominant" more likely that he doesn't understand what you want and he can only communicate in his language.

Like Orangehorse, I don't think this is about him being a dominant horse.

 

[Lois Lame]

I tend to end up with horses with naturally very high head carriage mainly due to the kinds of horses I like - Arabs etc.

I would try to stop thinking about contact and engagement being about bringing the horse’s head down but about getting the horse to engage it’s whole body. I’d work on bending and balancing instead of getting the horse “onto the bit.” Lots of circles and serpentines, and getting the horse to bend right through its spine. Flexibility isn’t only about bringing their head down. I’d try to focus on creating a nice, flowing rhythm - I happily sing to my horses like a total nutter but it helps me keep my breathing even. The more flexible and balanced they are, the more likely that they will relax and start to work in a nice frame. I almost see the frame as a bi-product though, it’s not the sole focus of my instructions to the horse.

I agree with this.
But I don't agree with this :

I don’t ride seriously though, or compete so I appreciate getting the horse onto the bit is less important to me than it might be for others.

Whether we compete or not, we all want the horse to go well and to use himself as that is better for him and better for us, but there's an awful lot of misunderstanding about getting a horse on the bit. It becomes the main focus instead of being a by-product of good riding.