Dominant mare - help please!

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nativepony

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I've had my mare for 4 months now and she's proving to be very dominant, I'm getting on top of this with lessons and doing lots of groundwork with her. I've never had a problem catching her up until 2 days ago when I approached her in the field and she ran at me with her ears flat back, then spun round threatening to kick me. A friend then went to get her and she let her catch her no problem. Yesterday I was too nervous to try and catch her so my friend went and she did the same to her - every time she took a step nearer to her until eventually I told her to come out of the field as I didn't want her hurt. She allowed herself to be caught about an hour later when she obviously thought it was time for her to come in. Tonight she did the same and it was only when all the mares had left the field that she came in with no aggression.

I had the dentist today and he said she had an extra tooth which usually only male horses have, (uncommon but not unheard of in mares), he said because of this she would have high levels of testosterone and would be a dominant alpha mare. I spoke to my vet who suggested a supplement.

So, really wanted recommendations of a supplement that may help, has anyone else had experience of this and just any general advice please. She is 6, Sec D x and was backed late at 5. Ridden wise she is very green and has tantrums if she doesn't want to do something.

So grateful for any advice am feeling a bit overwhelmed!
 
We've got a really dominant mare - 16.2 IDxTB, 4 years old. She was absolutely fine until spring this year, and then started rearing and barging when we were bringing her in and out, and actually pulled away from me one night to run through the hedge into the field next door which isn't fenced. We got some help from someone who showed us how to use a Dually headcollar and body language to assert ourselves as lead horse, and she is tons better now - though if she isn't worked for more than a day, she does revert - though never as bad as she used to be. She had to be sorted; my daughter ended up in A&E after a hoof blow to the head, and she drew blood biting me through three layers of clothing. Calmers didn't work; only the handling has.
Don't know if that's any help - but at least you know you're not the only one!
 
To be honest, I think it is worth paying a decent behaviourist/trainer to come to you and assess the situation :) Not a nice situation to be in, and I hope you get her sorted out soon, OP. Stay safe, wear a hard hat and body protector when catching in and turning out, and get some professional help with her as soon as you can.
 
nativepony said:
I've had my mare for 4 months now and she's proving to be very dominant, I'm getting on top of this with lessons and doing lots of groundwork with her. I've never had a problem catching her up until 2 days ago when I approached her in the field and she ran at me with her ears flat back, then spun round threatening to kick me. A friend then went to get her and she let her catch her no problem. Yesterday I was too nervous to try and catch her so my friend went and she did the same to her - every time she took a step nearer to her until eventually I told her to come out of the field as I didn't want her hurt. She allowed herself to be caught about an hour later when she obviously thought it was time for her to come in. Tonight she did the same and it was only when all the mares had left the field that she came in with no aggression.

I had the dentist today and he said she had an extra tooth which usually only male horses have, (uncommon but not unheard of in mares), he said because of this she would have high levels of testosterone and would be a dominant alpha mare. I spoke to my vet who suggested a supplement.

So, really wanted recommendations of a supplement that may help, has anyone else had experience of this and just any general advice please. She is 6, Sec D x and was backed late at 5. Ridden wise she is very green and has tantrums if she doesn't want to do something.

So grateful for any advice am feeling a bit overwhelmed!
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First of all, there is no link at all between levels of testosterone and mares developing tushes. It's rather shocking that a dentist would be so uninformed.
Secondly, when you say dominant, I wonder what you mean - it is a word that's bandied about in the horse world (esp. by natural horsemanship trainers) and is almost never used in the correct sense - i.e. a horse defending a specific resource (feed, water, a particular companion) against another horse who they believe may take it from them. Is that what your horse is doing? Or when you say she's "dominant", do you just mean she doesn't do what you want?
Thirdly, reread your own post. You've been doing groundwork. You go to catch your horse, she runs at you. See a link there? And your friend, who has not been doing "groundwork", goes in and catches the mare without difficulty. Your mare is clearly seeing your "groundwork" as something she needs to defend herself against, while she's still happy enough to be handled with someone who hasn't been chasing or scaring her.

What your mare needs is training. She needs to be trained so that she understands your requests, doesn't find them frightening enough to need to go into self defence mode, and so that she can easily comply. To do that, I suggest you find a good, sympathetic local trainer who doesn't talk about "dominance", but does talk about exactly what behaviours you would like to see in your mare and how to train them :)
 
I totally agree with getting help being more important than a supplement
it has to be the right help though

either a monty roberts associate or richard maxwell would be my choice
 
Brightbay, when I say I've been doing groundwork I mean using a dually and asking her to walk when I want her to and back up etc - when I very first got her she would plant herself and I couldn't get her to walk at all. She also kept trying to barge me out of the way when I opened the stable door. All this has stopped now due to me doing "groundwork"' , she's come on in leaps and bounds from a horse that I couldn't do a thing with and didn't even know how to lead properly to one that I can now lunge and longline without a problem. The friend that caught her on the first night she showed this agressive behaviour had the same behaviour exhibited at her on the subsequent nights. She also try's to bite when I do her girth up and swings her bum at me when I come towards her with the saddle. I have had the saddler out plus had her back checked - both are fine. I am not a novice owner, I have another mare that I have owned for 15 years and although she can be 'mareish' I have never seen this type of scary behaviour in any horse.
 
nativepony said:
Brightbay, when I say I've been doing groundwork I mean using a dually and asking her to walk when I want her to and back up etc - when I very first got her she would plant herself and I couldn't get her to walk at all. She also kept trying to barge me out of the way when I opened the stable door. All this has stopped now due to me doing "groundwork"' , she's come on in leaps and bounds from a horse that I couldn't do a thing with and didn't even know how to lead properly to one that I can now lunge and longline without a problem. The friend that caught her on the first night she showed this agressive behaviour had the same behaviour exhibited at her on the subsequent nights. She also try's to bite when I do her girth up and swings her bum at me when I come towards her with the saddle. I have had the saddler out plus had her back checked - both are fine. I am not a novice owner, I have another mare that I have owned for 15 years and although she can be 'mareish' I have never seen this type of scary behaviour in any horse.
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Edited to add, I don't want to dominant her - just to have a healthy relationship built on trust and I certainly have never hit or frightened her!
 
NP I have googled it and can find lots of anecdotal stuff about mares, canine teeth and testosterone levels. I can't find any real research though.

If she was mine, I would try your mare on a hormone supplement if your vet suggests one.

That behaviour is terrifying and with what you have already achieved with her, a bit inexplicable. Good luck with finding a solution.
 
Brightbay said:
Your mare is clearly seeing your "groundwork" as something she needs to defend herself against, while she's still happy enough to be handled with someone who hasn't been chasing or scaring her.
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I have to say I think you are making big assumptions there! Op didn't mention what ground work she has been doing and the mare also behaved in the same way to another person.

ps. With the threatening behaviour around girthing I would also investigate some form of gut support and research gastric ulcers and hind gut acidosis op.
 
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Jees! A slap on the bottom with said headcollar would have sorted her out and a few harsh swear words would have done the trick, doesn't matter what you say just as long as she thinks you mean business.
 
If you suspect she has high testosterone levels would it not be worth getting vet to do blood tests and also womb scan to check there's nothing going on in there?
 
Echo Bravo said:
Jees! A slap on the bottom with said headcollar would have sorted her out and a few harsh swear words would have done the trick, doesn't matter what you say just as long as she thinks you mean business.
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Don't disagree Echo Bravo but when she is running fast at you with ears pinned back and then spins and kicks out - its really scary!!!!
 
ridefast said:
If you suspect she has high testosterone levels would it not be worth getting vet to do blood tests and also womb scan to check there's nothing going on in there?
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I spoke to my vet today and she suggested trying a supplement first then if no luck with that she would do a blood test.
 
Still would have done the same thing, a loud voice and a threat would have made her think twice. I have found that a slightly raised voice works wonders, as they don't like loud noises. A stroppy mare if you let her trample all over you is a nightmare, but I've found if you make your voice sound harsh, when they play up, does work wonders and I know as I've 2 of the silly *******.
 
nativepony said:
I spoke to my vet today and she suggested trying a supplement first then if no luck with that she would do a blood test.
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Perhaps your level of horsemanship needs looking into. I have never read so many posts asking for a magical cure in supplements and calmers. They don't work.
 
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