Done to death - sorry - but what towing vehicle. My head is going to explode

[Ambers Echo]

Now Dolly has sold I am looking for a towing vehicle. I can't drive anything above 3.5T (excluded medically) so please no suggestions of how cheap larger lorries are. I know!!

I need basic living as I stay away regularly.

My plan was: Equitrek Show Trekka (1360kg) and VW Tourareg (3.5T towing capacity). My combined budget was small though as my lorry did not sell for much. So bought the show trekka for the rest of the season as Dolly was fine in that with my current car. And planned to buy the Toureg when Dolly sold. But prices have DOUBLED since the summer and the Toureg is now out of reach. So it's back to the drawing board.

Dilemmas:

My OH is very unkeen on an older car as he worries that they are money pits and might breakdown leaving me stranded with horse on board. I, on the the other hand, loved my 1998 lorry which was dead easy to fix! Unlike newer cars on which it costs £250 to change a light bulb. (literally). Who is right! Should I be looking at newer, high mileage rather than older, low mileage within any given budget? Or other way around?

I can't work out the towing capacity I need. The show trekka says its 1360kg and the guy at the trailer dealership said the weight in the boot and the passengers don't count. Is that right?
Lottie is 620kg. So in theory my current car (2.2T) could take her if I had all my stuff in the boot. Not a long term solution but at least a short term/short trip one?

Is it an urban myth that you need to be able to tow the theoretical max weight of your laden trailer! In which case you'd need over 3T towing capacity even if you only owned a shetland.

If I do need another car, I want reliability over comfort. Don;t give a stuff about heated seats or what have you. Just a safe, solid car to get me there and back without issue.

Any thoughts. Budget around 5K - annoyingly I test drove a perfect Toureg in the summer below 100,000 miles and tried to haggle for 5K but walked away at £5995 as I was not in a hurry then. I'd jump at that now!

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Sorry I can’t help with the rules and regs as it’s confusing to me too but from a driving experience my old Lexus could tow up to 2000kg. I have an IW506 and 2 ponies and with them both on board plus tack in the car I was approaching the full weight and the car really struggled. Braking had to be done very gently and way before I needed to stop. My Mitsubishi SWB Shogun can tow up to 3500kg and the difference is very noticeable. The torque is greater, braking is much better and I can pull away up hills with ease so in your position I would go for the highest towing capacity you can or you may end up being underpowered. Both cars automatics which also make towing a much more pleasurable experience.

 

[Muddy unicorn]

So the combined weight of trailer plus Lottie is 1980kg?

How easily does your current car manage? Are you ever going to want to tow two horses? And are you going to be disciplined about loading tack/water etc in the boot?

Depending on your answers to those questions I think I’d be tempted to keep using your current car. Secondhand car prices have gone bonkers so I wouldn’t want to be car-buying right now ?

 

[maya2008]

I doubt it helps, but we have the exact same budget and are also coming up with nothing. Everything we can afford is too old. Have decided to up the budget in Jan and try again then.

 

[Ambers Echo]

My car towed Dolly and all our stuff for stay away shows with no problem at all. Perfectly fine accelerating up hills! So if I can legally tow Lottie I really don’t think the car would struggle

 

[HappyHollyDays]

My car towed Dolly and all our stuff for stay away shows with no problem at all. Perfectly fine accelerating up hills! So if I can legally tow Lottie I really don’t think the car would struggle

Then don’t buy another car, use the one you have.

 

[Michen]

No help but JEEEEZ. I bought my 17 reg touareg for 23k in feb and it’s now got double the mileage but seems to be worth about 3k more!

that’s absolutely bizarre.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Lottie weighs maybe just 200kgs or so more than Dolly, so you are likely to be fine as long as you don't load the trailer up with lots of heavy things like water.

Re putting things in the boot instead, you need to double check what the towing vehicle's gross train weight is. That's the fully loaded tow vehicle + loaded trailer permitted combo.

 

[teapot]

No help but JEEEEZ. I bought my 17 reg touareg for 23k in feb and it’s now got double the mileage but seems to be worth about 3k more!

that’s absolutely bizarre.

Demand for second hand cars has gone through the roof as no-one wants to buy new. VW's lead times are closer to six months at the moment.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Demand for second hand cars has gone through the roof as no-one wants to buy new. VW's lead times are closer to six months at the moment.

Mine was in for service and MOT last week and up on the ramps in the garage when a man came in and asked to buy it.

 

[phizz4]

The rules are quite simple. For the moment forget the weight of the horse. Every car has a gross vehicle weight, which is on the documentation and includes the weight of the car, fuel, driver, passengers and luggage. This is not the towing capacity.
Every trailer has the same, except it's usually called the maximum allowable mass or MAM. It is the weight of the trailer plus the maximum load that you can put in it. If you haven't got a trailer towing permit (post 1997 passed driving test and haven't done a trailer test) then these two numbers, GVW and MAM, shouldn't exceed 3.5 tonnes. According to google, 1360 kg is the weight of the trailer empty, which, considering it has living, would be about right. It has a MAM of 3000 kg, so you can carry a load of 3000 - 1260. This is your payload. Your horse of 620 kg is well within the payload of the trailer, it would give you a total weight of 1260 + 620 = 1880 kg. This is where you get an idea of the car's towing capacity. It is recommended (not required by law) that the load of horse and trailer don't weigh more than 85% of the towing cars weight (not it's GVW) but some people disagree with this. On that basis you would need a car that weighs around 2,200 kg. This is Toureg, Shogun, Discovery, Range Rover country.
So, there is the law regarding your licence and what you can tow and then there is the law of towing within the towing limit of the car. From what I can see the towing capacity of a Toureg is 3.5 tonnes, so you are well within the cars legal towing capacity. The weight of the car is listed as around 2020 to 2070 kg depending on the model (probably the difference is between manual and automatic), so the car is not far off the 'recommended' weight. By the time you add fuel, driver, saddle, water, feed etc (put them in the car, not the trailer) the only thing to check is your licence entitlement.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Thank you. I am not quite at 85% but not far off. So I think I’m ok x

 

[phizz4]

Sorry, some poor maths. Trailer is 1360 kg, plus horse gives 1980 kg. Close to towing limit related to weight of Toureg but probably not an issue if you are experienced.

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

I have had this problem recently. I fancied a change from a Discovery as the last one was dreadful. I spent hours researching, reading reviews, regular checks on autotrader, had to increase budget as 2nd car market has gone crazy. Sold my old disco for only £300 less than I purchased it for and ended up buying another one!!!

 

[TheHairyOne]

The requirements for the license are now can tow a max weight of up to 3.5 tonnes (car dependent obviously but now longer classed as part of the weight). It changed on Dec 16th.

My friend has a Kia Sorento (the one that can tow 3T) that has never gone properly wrong and the routine bits have been pretty cheap. I am now on the look out for one as it does fine with 2 horses and the bigger model Ifor.

 

[HorseMaid]

Have a look at a ssangyong rexton. I've just got rid of mine as I want to get a lorry, but the car itself had a 3.5 tonne towing capacity and was SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper to buy than the equivalent land rover/touareg etc etc. I didn't have any issues with it at all.

 

[McFluff]

I have the same trailer. I usually go out with my horse 550kg and tack, water etc (I allow 100kg for that) so usual trailer weight is just over 2t.

I usually tow it with a defender - the defender finds this easy easy, and I have towed the trailer loaded with 2 horses (2.5 t) with no issues.
However, defender is off being refurbished, so I’m using my F-pace. It’s tow limit is 2.4t, and it manages my usual set up (2t) easily. I would not tow with more in the trailer though.

So it may be worth trying your current car with kit in boot and just horse in trailer. Even for a few months while the car market calms down. Maybe.

The 85% of kerb weight confuses me though. Maybe I’m missing something.
The defender is 1770kg and can tow up to 3.5t easily. you really don’t feel the trailer on her, even fully laden with two horses.
The F-pace is much heavier (about 2.4t) and it has lower towing capacity and you are aware of the trailer (not much, but I’m comparing the feel to towing with the defender).

I should add that I’m on an older licence so have grandparent rights for tow limits.

 

[Lyle]

As phizz4 has said. You also need to look at the gross combined weight of the car. This is the total weight of the entire rig, loaded weight of the car (fuel, passengers, stuff, ball weight) plus the loaded trailer. This figure is usually where lighter tow vehicles fall down, you can only tow the maximum of the vehicle if the weight in the vehicle is kept to an absolute minimum. Wouldn't hurt to get the ball weight of the trailer checked too

 

[teddypops]

Mine was in for service and MOT last week and up on the ramps in the garage when a man came in and asked to buy it.

I stopped for fuel last weekend and someone came over asking if I’d sell my landcruiser!

 

[palo1]

I have the same trailer. I usually go out with my horse 550kg and tack, water etc (I allow 100kg for that) so usual trailer weight is just over 2t.

I usually tow it with a defender - the defender finds this easy easy, and I have towed the trailer loaded with 2 horses (2.5 t) with no issues.
However, defender is off being refurbished, so I’m using my F-pace. It’s tow limit is 2.4t, and it manages my usual set up (2t) easily. I would not tow with more in the trailer though.

So it may be worth trying your current car with kit in boot and just horse in trailer. Even for a few months while the car market calms down. Maybe.

The 85% of kerb weight confuses me though. Maybe I’m missing something.
The defender is 1770kg and can tow up to 3.5t easily. you really don’t feel the trailer on her, even fully laden with two horses.
The F-pace is much heavier (about 2.4t) and it has lower towing capacity and you are aware of the trailer (not much, but I’m comparing the feel to towing with the defender).

I should add that I’m on an older licence so have grandparent rights for tow limits.

A land rover has a different chassis construction to other vehicles which is why it has a better capacity for towing/can tow a higher weight.

 

[Annagain]

The rules are quite simple. For the moment forget the weight of the horse. Every car has a gross vehicle weight, which is on the documentation and includes the weight of the car, fuel, driver, passengers and luggage. This is not the towing capacity.
Every trailer has the same, except it's usually called the maximum allowable mass or MAM. It is the weight of the trailer plus the maximum load that you can put in it. If you haven't got a trailer towing permit (post 1997 passed driving test and haven't done a trailer test) then these two numbers, GVW and MAM, shouldn't exceed 3.5 tonnes. According to google, 1360 kg is the weight of the trailer empty, which, considering it has living, would be about right. It has a MAM of 3000 kg, so you can carry a load of 3000 - 1260. This is your payload. Your horse of 620 kg is well within the payload of the trailer, it would give you a total weight of 1260 + 620 = 1880 kg. This is where you get an idea of the car's towing capacity. It is recommended (not required by law) that the load of horse and trailer don't weigh more than 85% of the towing cars weight (not it's GVW) but some people disagree with this. On that basis you would need a car that weighs around 2,200 kg. This is Toureg, Shogun, Discovery, Range Rover country.
So, there is the law regarding your licence and what you can tow and then there is the law of towing within the towing limit of the car. From what I can see the towing capacity of a Toureg is 3.5 tonnes, so you are well within the cars legal towing capacity. The weight of the car is listed as around 2020 to 2070 kg depending on the model (probably the difference is between manual and automatic), so the car is not far off the 'recommended' weight. By the time you add fuel, driver, saddle, water, feed etc (put them in the car, not the trailer) the only thing to check is your licence entitlement.

As of last Thursday the limit of 3500kg if you don't have the B+E on your licence doesn't apply. The law has changed.

This means all you need to worry about is that the ACTUAL weight of the trailer+horse+ anything else you put in the trailer (gas bottle, water, tack etc) cannot exceed the car's towing capacity. If you're close, put as much as you can in the car to avoid this being a problem (in fact the more weight in the car compared to the trailer the better - a heavier tow vehicle and lighter trailer is always going to be more stable) Yes, you need to consider the Gross Train Weight (this is the maximum for the total weight of car + contents and trailer + contents) but in reality, you'll never get close to this unless you load the car from floor to ceiling with lead! For example, my defender weighs 1750kg, the trailer+ horse weighs about 1700kg so 3450kg in total. The Gross Train Weight is 5900kg so I could put another 2500kg in the car if I wanted to. Nothing I own weighs that!

The 85% rule is a very old one and applied to single axle caravans that were considerably less stable than horse trailers and cars that didn't have the electronics that modern cars have. As such it isn't a consideration for you.

Do you need to use the car for everyday as well as towing? If not, I'd got for an old, well looked after Defender (if you can find/afford one) Normally if they've survived long enough and been cared for well enough to have had most things replaced they're pretty reliable! The only problem is they're like hen's teeth and very expensive at the moment. I have a 63 plate (so not old, old but just an example) which I've had from new and I'm seeing similar vehicles being advertised for more than I paid for it 8 years ago. If you need to drive it for other things and do a lot of mileage I wouldn't recommend it unless you're into S&M while driving. I only do 5,000 miles a year. It's just about bearable and that's in a newer one!

 

[Annagain]

The 85% of kerb weight confuses me though. Maybe I’m missing something.

It's a very old (and arbitrary) rule that applied to single axle caravans and cars without all the electronics that modern cars have. It's not a thing any more (and never was for horse trailers) but some people still go by it. As long as you're within the towing capacity of your vehicle you're fine. No manufacturer will put a towing capacity on a car that the car can't cope with. Imagine the compensation claims if all these cars were crashing because they're towing more than 85% of their kerb weight but less than their capacity!

An older Defender only has a kerb weight of 1750kg but can tow 3500kg legally (and a hell of a lot more in practice - have you seen the video of one towing out a lorry stuck in the snow?)

Lorry stuck in Arctic conditions is rescued by 45-year old Land Rover | Shropshire Star

 

[AandK]

I have towed with a Disco 3, Jeep Cherokee and a Kia Sorento. The first two could pull 3.5t and the Kia 2.8t. The Disco/Jeep had no issues with my Bateson Ascot trailer (about 925kg unladen) and two horses. Only ever towed one horse with the Kia, but it managed fine. I now have an 11 plate Merc ML350, which can also pull 3.5t, although I have not actually had the chance to tow with it since I got it in June! It's a very comfy, solid and powerful car, not cheap to run though.
A Kia Sorento may be worth looking for with your budget? Some of the older models can tow 3.5t, but you don't need to be able to tow the MAM of your trailer, just the unladen weight plus the load. You will probably be fine with your current vehicle, but I always prefer to have plenty of spare capacity when towing horses, from a safety perspective.

 

[teddypops]

The rules are quite simple. For the moment forget the weight of the horse. Every car has a gross vehicle weight, which is on the documentation and includes the weight of the car, fuel, driver, passengers and luggage. This is not the towing capacity.
Every trailer has the same, except it's usually called the maximum allowable mass or MAM. It is the weight of the trailer plus the maximum load that you can put in it. If you haven't got a trailer towing permit (post 1997 passed driving test and haven't done a trailer test) then these two numbers, GVW and MAM, shouldn't exceed 3.5 tonnes. According to google, 1360 kg is the weight of the trailer empty, which, considering it has living, would be about right. It has a MAM of 3000 kg, so you can carry a load of 3000 - 1260. This is your payload. Your horse of 620 kg is well within the payload of the trailer, it would give you a total weight of 1260 + 620 = 1880 kg. This is where you get an idea of the car's towing capacity. It is recommended (not required by law) that the load of horse and trailer don't weigh more than 85% of the towing cars weight (not it's GVW) but some people disagree with this. On that basis you would need a car that weighs around 2,200 kg. This is Toureg, Shogun, Discovery, Range Rover country.
So, there is the law regarding your licence and what you can tow and then there is the law of towing within the towing limit of the car. From what I can see the towing capacity of a Toureg is 3.5 tonnes, so you are well within the cars legal towing capacity. The weight of the car is listed as around 2020 to 2070 kg depending on the model (probably the difference is between manual and automatic), so the car is not far off the 'recommended' weight. By the time you add fuel, driver, saddle, water, feed etc (put them in the car, not the trailer) the only thing to check is your licence entitlement.

That doesn’t make it sound simple at all!
You need to know what the towing capacity of your vehicle is. You also need to know the weight of your trailer and your horses. The weight you are towing can’t exceed the towing capacity of your vehicle.

 

[Alibear]

I tow a show trekka with my Freelander. Amber weighs around 600kg, Freelanders 2.2T towing capacity so I'm very similar to your weights Ambers Echo and I'm fine. Most trips are 2 hours each way.
It is also correct that you can load up the car to keep the trailer weight right.
The only improvement I get using a bigger vehicle to tow is that breaking is easier. I do have to consider my braking distances with the Freelander, I don't really have to worry about it with hubbys range rover.
Also I'm in Norfolk so if I were in a hilly area I guess things might be different.
My setup is legal. I'd suggest you stay as you are for now

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

The older Sorrentos 07-10 plates have the best towing capacity. They changed after that year.

 

[McFluff]

It's a very old (and arbitrary) rule that applied to single axle caravans and cars without all the electronics that modern cars have. It's not a thing any more (and never was for horse trailers) but some people still go by it. As long as you're within the towing capacity of your vehicle you're fine. No manufacturer will put a towing capacity on a car that the car can't cope with. Imagine the compensation claims if all these cars were crashing because they're towing more than 85% of their kerb weight but less than their capacity!

An older Defender only has a kerb weight of 1750kg but can tow 3500kg legally (and a hell of a lot more in practice - have you seen the video of one towing out a lorry stuck in the snow?)

Lorry stuck in Arctic conditions is rescued by 45-year old Land Rover | Shropshire Star

Defenders are totally awesome at towing - I'm really missing ours (was going to say mine, but technically she belongs to OH). Should get her back in a few weeks, and get another 17 years running (she's 2004 reg). We could have sold her for nearly what we paid for her 16 years ago - not many vehicles can do that! Instead we are getting her refurbished.
To those worried about running an older car, our defender has never broken down or left us stranded (in well over 100K miles) - except the one time when hubby parked up at the airport and left the lights on. I can confirm that a week of old halogen lights being left on fully drains the battery. And her most expensive year (MOT, service and repair bills) was £1000 - most years it is much closer to £250.

 

[Annagain]

Defenders are totally awesome at towing - I'm really missing ours (was going to say mine, but technically she belongs to OH). Should get her back in a few weeks, and get another 17 years running (she's 2004 reg). We could have sold her for nearly what we paid for her 16 years ago - not many vehicles can do that! Instead we are getting her refurbished.
To those worried about running an older car, our defender has never broken down or left us stranded (in well over 100K miles) - except the one time when hubby parked up at the airport and left the lights on. I can confirm that a week of old halogen lights being left on fully drains the battery. And her most expensive year (MOT, service and repair bills) was £1000 - most years it is much closer to £250.

The turbo hoses have gone on mine (it's a known fault) but they just make a funny noise, I've never been left stranded. Luckily, two of the three went when it was still under warranty. This year's MOT and service was the most expensive at £500 but that was for new brake pads all round as well - I think that's the first time I've replaced the back ones so that's pretty good going for 50,000 miles.