Don't agree with vets diagnosis....what do you think?

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Slightlyconfused

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Hi,
bit of a long one.
My horse, 15.2 good doer, jumped down the step from his stable on wednesday morning rather than walking nicely down it like he normally does. He landed on his front right leg first then his other one went down, he was slightly lame for an hour. turned him out to see if it was just jarring, he was sound after an hour, came in that night sound as anything. trotting up and tight turns. he was fine.
did the same the next morning same again completely sound so my brother took him out for a hack. he was fine, turned out okay.

then when i brought him in that night he wouldn't put his weight on that hoof very well, phoned my normal vet he said to cold hose it then if still lame in the morning give them a call.
i did that and he was a lot worse in the morning so got vet out, but not the one i spoke the previous night as it was his day off. got one of the others.

i told all about what happened, and that he never has had clicking joints but that leg clicks everytime he moves it. now i know my horse has put on weight over the snowy period but he isn't obese as the vet kept calling him, he has these two fatty deposist just infront of his saddle that have been there since we got him 7years ago, and was told by him i was basically over feeding him when all he gets is a very small handfull of alfa a and a scoop of garlic for tea, he has hardly any grass in his feild and has a small holed haynet with four slices of hay a night. if i give him any less he eats his straw bed...so the diganosis.....laminitis.

now i know they can get it in the winter, my sisters old pony had it, but the vet completely disreguarded the fact that he had no symptoms untill he landed, all of his weight, on that hoof.
i was wondering if he has fractured his pedal bone or got concussion laminitis but the vet won't have a bar of it. so its xrays on tuseday, the one thing i am happy about as it will tell if it is a fracture or not. we changed him over to shavings, per vets orders, have started soaking hay and cutting it down.

am i being silly? quite a few friends, one of them is a vet nurse, agree with me about the fracture or concussion.

your veiws would be helpfull.

xxxx

p.s what is the right weight for a 15.2 pure bred appy? our summer target weight on the tape is 460kg is this right? it was agreed by our normal vet a few years ago.

p.p.s he tested him with the foot clamp things and was very sore in his front right and slightly in his other, and had a rasied pulse on the right and only slightly on the left. but no heat or swelling on either......
 
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Rapid pulse? Heat in hoof? Sole pressure test?

The jolt could have affected the lamini.

At least the X-ray will show up.

When LL got laminitis I didn't restrict his hay, rather I soaked each lot for twelve hours. Over the three months box rest he lost weight despite having ad lib hay (soaked).

Hope you get to the bottom of it!
 
no heat in hoof or swelling, posistive for the hoof clamps but more in one, the one he landed on, than the other, same with the pulses.

thanks. he wants him on box rest for at least three weeks depeneding on the xrays.

xx
 
I'm sorry, but if you dont agree with your vet, tell him so, and get a second opinion.

I agree that the vet sounds like he's talking out his butt. I would definitely be looking at the fact he smashed his foot into the ground as the most likely cause...

Good luck. xxx
 
flamehead said:
I'm sorry, but if you dont agree with your vet, tell him so, and get a second opinion.

I agree that the vet sounds like he's talking out his butt. I would definitely be looking at the fact he smashed his foot into the ground as the most likely cause...

Good luck. xxx
Click to expand...

will be speaking to my normal vet monday for that second opinion.

thank you


xx
 
Nowt wrong with carrying on as if it is lami, but I would definitely be getting a second opinion. Good luck its horrid when they're hurt. xxx
 
Our 15.2 pure bred Appy weighs 504k on our weight tape and we are very happy with that. She was very fit and active and just a bit too much on the lean side at under 500kin our opinion going into winter. It does depend on your horse's build though as all Appies have very mixed breeding just a couple of generations ago. Ours has TB and Arab breeding.
I agree with those posters who suggested getting a 2nd opinion. I do wonder why your horse started jumping out of his stable in this way. Could he have been trying to avoid putting too much weight on the other foot? Which might point to lami after all? Good luck and best wishes for a speedy recovery.
 
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It doesnt matter what the diagnosis is if the answer is the same ,light diet and rest, Vets are often just an expensive guess.
 
could be damage to laminae, could be chipped/fractured pedal bone, could even be a broken navicular bone.

Glad the xrays are booked. In my experience of both pedal bone rotation and fractured navicular bone i have had to deep bed on shavings with complete box rest.

As for the vet - speak to the practice manager, tell them you not happy and want a second opinion.

good luck.
 
i agree that you shouldnt think twice about questioning a vets diagnosis.

if i ever have issues involving any of my horses feet i speak to my farrier for diagnosis and vet for treatment as in my opinion he has spent 5 years studying just feet where as a vet just a few months. the raised pulse and heat could be caused by weight compensation if he is hurting on one leg he will put more of his weight down his other side witch can raise the pulse and in turn raising the temp.

sounds to me like you have been doing a good job controlling his weight and lami, i have a 17.2 warm blood that is in full comp work and still has his love handles in front of the saddle. there are lots of variations mechanical, metabolic, and hormonal (more common in brood mares in foal) of lami like mrsmozart says the jolt could of flared it up.

the xray will tell be the answer.
hope he is ok
 
The only harm that is done by this diagnosis for now is damage to your pride - the treatment for lami and suspected fracture would be x rays and box rest. It wouldn't do any harm to cut his hay down a slice - our 17h hunter gets 4 slices at night and is on the larger side. My 16h ISH gets 3 slices (although slices vary so much, it could weigh differently)

We had a pony get lami last winter, that I would have sworn was something else at first - I'm so glad the vet didn't agree! I'd sit with it until Tuesday, and complain afterwards when you've got the x rays and are sure... (ps. Not meaning to be nasty! Whatever the result, hope its neither of the above, and hope he gets better.)
 
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hey, just a quick update, he is alot happyier this morning. only lame on the one hoof walking round the box but now has swollen legs. does get that when has to be in longer than 10 hours:D.

as for the damaged pride.....thats a bit harsh, if it is ture lami than okay but the vet wasn't listening to what i was saying. re the other symptoms and just told me i was over feeding my horse.
he got four small slices of hay a night in small holed haynets or he gets very miserable in the morning, a small handful, and i mean very small, of alfa a and a scoop of garlic. out in the feild from between 8 and 9am, or a bit later if ridden, lunged etc and brought in about 4pm, thats it, nothing else. if it turns out he has it then okay we deal with it, laminitis has nothing to do with hurt pride.

he weights in at 480k on the weight tape, and has been alot bigger when we first brought him, his weight to go into summer with is 460k.

xx
 
Digital pulse in both feet and sensitivity to hoof testers in both feet? Sounds like laminitis to me. I'm not saying it is, just that I completely understand the vets diagnosis. I would wait and see what the x rays say before making any formal complaint.
 
I'm glad you are following the vets instructions in this case. Imo it is never worth taking a risk with possible laminitis. The grass atm is very likely to have been a factor after this cold snap. You may think there is little grass but that's probably because its being eaten before it can grow. My grass is growing.
Here's the link to weight assessment on the WHW site to help you get an idea of her weight. I know one of mine does get obese if I don't watch her like a hawk and her sometimes creeps up without me noticing. :o We don't keep horses lean in this country so I think we have lost our perspective on what actually is an overweight and underweight horse.

Sorry forgot the link! http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/information/right_weight_advice

Glad she is improving, keep up soaking the hay is my advice as that will help her to loose weight too.
 
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My mare jumped out of her field last summer and got laminitis as a result of the jolt. Bear in mind he could have laminitis and a fracture! Not sure what the x rays will reveal if there has not been any rotation, with regards to the laminitis.
 
Toast said:
Id definitely get a 2nd opinion if you arent happy, but 4 slices at night sounds a little much to me. I'd be giving about 2 and a half.
x
Click to expand...

They are very thin slices and when we get bales that have thicker ones we cut them down acordinly.

will wait and see what the x rays show then take it from there....

he was in a very cheeky mood tonite and only lame on the right front hoof.

xx
 
I dont think you are feeding too much but maybe soak it if you think he could do with losing a few pounds. I was told by my vet that my horse should weigh 500kg and shes a TB x cob. I feed between 8 and 10 KG hay a night and shes about 510KG at the moment but will restrict once grass starts popping up.

I would just wait and see what the x-rays show before you ask for a second opinion.
 
I do wonder if the reason he jumped out of his stable rather than walk quietly was because his feet were already hurting? I know it doesn't make sense to jump, but horses aren't good reasoners like humans and he could have been uncomfortable to walk, hence the leap. Personally, I think he sounds like he's got a touch of laminitis, but I wouldn't have thought that one incident like a small jump out of his stable is going to cause concussive laminitis. When you say he has 'fat pads', does he have any in other places? Possible pointer towards Cushings, which can cause laminitis in a pony even if it doesn't look overweight.
 
the fat pads sit just infront of his saddle, he has had them since we brought him, we had them looked at a few years ago, the vet then told me that some horses just store fat differently.

he jumped out because the horse he goes out with went out the barn first and he was on his own for all to three seconds:D but i do agree he could have had a touch of it and the jump didn't help, just brought it on quicker.
its just my sisters pony was badly laminitic and they aren't displaying the same symptoms, the pony used to had hot hooves for week a week or two if he was going down with an attack, the appy has no hot hooves tonite. the only hot bit, by hot i mean just above his normal body temp is just above his corent band to just below his fetlock on the right hoof and he hasn't had any pain killers to day and is only slightly sore in this stable on the right hoof.

we have soaked his hay, in two small holed haynets, one inside the other so it takes him longer to eat.
he is on a deep shavings bed with rubber matting at the front. and is very happy at the mo.

xxx

p.s also the set down is about 8 inches and its solid concrete
 
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OP - You seem to be a bit hung up on concussive laminitis and true laminitis, as you call it. It makes no difference to the cause, the symptoms, physical changes in the hoof and treatment are the same.
 
MY 16.3hh WB only weights 480KG so id say that 460KG may be a bit podgy.. laminitis can be caused by any trauma, but also the recent frost could have been a factor.

If he had chipped his pedal bone, or had concussive laminitis, then i would have expected the lameness to appear earlier. Xrays are good as they will show weather the bone is fractured or rotated.. but like i said, the pain would have come on more acutly.

a broken distal sesimoid is unlikly.

Good luck. hope everything is okay for you.

PS.. if the horse has fat deposits they its over weight.. really they are not ment to have 'saddle bags'

Lou x
 
loads of good advice given, my old mare with lami used to jump with her 2 front feet when she was bad, so i would also say could be pointing in that direction but that is only my opinion and i hope i am wrong.
I think your best course of actin is see the xrays and take it from there, and just hope they come back clear
 
I agree with Wagtail, sounds exactly like a hoof abcess!!
We've had a handful this week with all this mud, prime conditions for abcesses, they are very common and so often mistaken for something else like lami. Stick a poultice on, call your farrier and get him to check the foot if you don't know what to look for yourself.
 
Hoof abcess and Laminitis can often be confused.

My friends' pony was originally diagnosed with the former, until she had poulticed the foot for weeks and it got no better.

The vet came out again with a portable X-Ray machine and it was, in fact laminitis.

As it was.... the new farrier then said that an abcess had broken through at some point in the recent past.... so vet wasn't really wrong.
 
Update, i spoke to my normal vet and he said it could have been any number of things, but it has turned out to be laminitis, i am eating a big slice of humble pie, but my normal vet did say that he wouldn't all the him obese just a little porky and the fatty lumps have always been there even he said that.
in one week you could start seeing his ribs so his weight is coming down nicely.
but we tested for IR and Cushings and they came back normal.
As to the lami he saidthe pedal bone can rotate within an hour in some horses showing no lamesness untill it does and even then it doesnt look like lami until a few days later so we were right to question as the other vet didn't explain this, plus we have found out the other vet isn't realy a ppl person.
the xrays show that he has a 10 degree rotation and his pedal bone is 3mm from his sole so he has had stirofoam pads ducktaped to his hooves. after two days on one danilon twice aday and a bit of sedalin twice aday he was walking sound round his stable.
vet checked on him a few days ago and is happy with how he is doing, unfortuantely he is getting very frustrated with being in and has been bucking and bronking round his stable today as he sees other horses walking round the yard so sedalin has been upped.
he ios only allowed 12-14 pound weighed dry hay soaked for as long as in a 24 hour period so is getting hungery as well. we split it, he has 2 pd when we get there in the morning, 4 pd when we leave the the other 6 when we leave at night trying to space it out far enough so he doesn't spend so long without food.
one thing vet did say was that it looks very good if he is doing that, he must be feeling better as he isn't on that high does of painkillers.
next set of xrays id on the 10 feb so fingers crossed the pedal bone has improved.

so its just a case of pot luck as he is currently treating a pony with lami that is very underweight but caught it off frosty grass. the owner didn't believe him untill he showed her the xrays. he said it frustrating how many myths there are about it out there that people belive. any horse or pony can get it no matter the wieght, diet, time of year or exerise.

so thank you to everyone who replied, and those that told me to listen to my vet. this has been a big lesson to not only us but everyone on my yard to wasn't that sure on his diagnosis too.
will keep you updated.
hugs to everyone

xxx

p.s sorry it took me so long to update, kept forgetting my password! lol
 
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