Don't hold back folks! Horses/motorway bridge parapets

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MochaDun

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I came across this recent news item on the online page of what was once my local newspaper. I read the article but wasn't quite prepared for the strength of feeling it produced in comments from the local community (scroll down on link below to read).

http://www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk/n...orway_bridges_/

I know one of the motorway bridges/roads they are referring to and it was once a nice place to walk/ride, I grew up there - leads up to the Blackdown Hills. Makes me a bit sad that in areas where once horses could be welcomed and such views for safety given due consideration, what I think of as quite a sensible request for higher parapets should produce such a response. Am I being naive?

I'm just thankful where I am now that someone saw fit to make the parapets nice and high on a motorway bridge that is just for cyclists, rider and walkers over the M4.
 
Honestly, I was quite taken aback at how spiteful the comments were. What a nasty bunch of people. It obviously never occurred to them that horse riders might be taxpayers and its obviously impossible to work out exactly who funds who and to what extent, but I bet the horse riders aren't exactly getting good value!

That bridge has incredibly low side rails. As a cyclist, I'd be a fraction worried about skidding on ice and going over a railing too. Mind you, you daren't mention you're a cyclist in Britain any more either for the amount of venom you attract.
 
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Honestly, I was quite taken aback at how spiteful the comments were. What a nasty bunch of people. It obviously never occurred to them that horse riders might be taxpayers and its obviously impossible to work out exactly who funds who and to what extent, but I bet the horse riders aren't exactly getting good value!


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Pretty vile lot really. They don't realise that the bridges replace rights of way that were used long before cars. And yet if a walker wants to have a moan ...

I had our local Access guy from the Council on the phone today saying they'd had a complaint from walkers that a footpath across my farm was difficult for access because of electric fences. I explained there was a proper electric gate in EVERY fence the footpath went through - and if walkers didn't have the brains to use a simple plastic handle they shouldn't be let loose.

He started telling me that they could make me fence off the whole footpath and have no gates for the poor little poppets to open. He regretted THAT ! I basically told him these are the same sorts of idiots I found letting off fire-rockets in my field - 150 yards from the footpath - with several of them landing within a few feet of my haybarn - still fizzing - and if he wanted to start a fight with me, he might live to regret it!! That I wasn't going to invest in another 2,000 metres of electric fencing AND lose a substantial strip of grazing just because walkers were too thick to get themself through a gate that I can manage with two large youngsters in tow!
 
we have a railway brdge tocross with low sides and intercties at top speeds hurtling underneath and that is scary,another road A14 just off the M1 has a horse crossing sign who in there right minds woud use the, and bridleways are npw B OATS and used by motorbikes and 4x4s to make unsafe ruts, where are we eant to safely rde.
 
Comeing to a place near you "soon" as I predicted ages and ages ago.


Quote from miss dozy bitch
"I have to agree that maybe they should keep the horses away from the motorway bridges?! Surely there are plenty of other places to ride in the area? Plus how have they managed crossing the bridges in the past?! Surely nothing has changed?"

WELL THERE PROBABLY WERE PLENTY OF PLACES TO RIDE, UNTIL THEY BUILT THE BLOODY ROADS AND HOUSING ESTATES AND COMMERCIAL PARKS AND TOOK ROUTES OFF US TO GIVE TO CYCLISTS. (Personal experience)

Do these arseholes think we just crawl off and die the minute they get their poxy little rabbit hutch houses and shopping centers to live in, which were most likely built smack over a public right of way, which gets diverted through 7 lanes of traffic, (personel experience, see my saturdy morning ride vid) then you get slated for riding it either by motorists or people on here who should know better.
 
I'm pretty taken aback with the comments from people living in Taunton, a town surrounded by open Somerset countryside and with both and eventing centre and a racecourse.

I see the 'there are plenty of fields for them to ride in' argument raises it's head again. The ignorance of these people knows no bounds!

Pedantic, your signature says it all.
 
I was expecting those sort of comments on a online paper. I remember not long ago on Evening Post online where someonws python (or other breed of snake) ate a neigbour's cat and the comments were along the lines of "well done snake" "give the snake a medal"

Truly disgusting. A ride near to my old yard went over the newly built A4174 (new bit of the Bristol ring road) and they saw fit to just leave plastic fencing up for ages before installing metal railing. This bridge was regularly used by riders, cyclist and walkers.

(excuse my spelling, I have only just woken up!)
 
How sad that people can be so narrow minded and vile. My parents live near to the new forest, and there is a bridle way linking them that takes you within half a mile of open forest. Only thing is it crosses the M27 once, goes under it once and then runs along a busy road (B road perhaps) - apparantly (according to mum who grew up there) its always been there, they just added the motorway and roads...

There is nothing more nerve wracking than crossing a motorway bridge, even on the sanest of horses!!
 
I thought that minimum standards were in place now for bridges that take bridleways over motorways....... I'm sure I remember reading about a campaign. It struck a chord with me because it co-incided with one of our regular off road hack being bi-sected by the A50 dual carriageway.

I've used that bridge many times, and the first few times (or the first time on a new horse) were very scary, especially on a big horse. Although the horses all got used to it pretty quickly.

I do recall one youngster that tried to jump the traffic when she was getting used to it. :$

I do think the comments being made are extremely narrow minded and really need challenging though.
 
For a supposedly "horse friendly" area, I have found Somerset to be quite the opposite on more than one occasion, and am not surprised by the local comments. A friend and I were leading our ponies, at a walk, in single file, along a wide and flat local bridlepath (my pony was recovering from lameness and my friend's was a youngster) when we met a man with an Alsatian, who roared at us, "You shouldn't bring those bl**dy horses along here; they churn all the mud up." Then he said to me, "Why do you bring them along here?" Well, mate, the fact we only have two bridlepaths within walking distance of our yard has a lot to do with it. I know where this man lives, and he drives four miles return journey twice a day to walk the dog on these paths. He doesn't like walking her along roads "because it's not safe". Yet he expects us to take our horses on the roads. He also has dozens of footpaths (with "No Horses" signs) and the whole of the beach to walk on. Sadly, he is FAR from being the only one round here with this attitude. When we moved here, I thought the Gateway to Exmoor would be fabulous for riding, but received less abuse in the West Midland suburbs!
 
I am in somerset
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I ride over 3 motorway bridges.....
one which I use rarely as it is a long ride is a re route of an old bridleway, only a foot bridge and has the high sides.

The other 2 have no bridleways anywhere near them, we only have about 500yds worth near me anyway... and no I dont think that the council should pay for higher parapets.

There was a time when I had to ride the motorway route to hack because they closed a bridge over the river for 6 months and it was either that or go into town down the main road as hacking options! Now if I want to go that way it is my choice and most of the time I dont as the B road it is on is a bit fast and bendy for my likeing anyway.

I think my point is that there are many many motorway bridges, all probably used by 1 or 2 riders sometimes, I dont think this is enough to warrant them all getting higher parapets and what they cost.

I would be surprised from Wellington that you had to cross the motorway... yes if you want to get to the hills but it is your choice where you stable. There is land on the wellington side...... I am in a slightly different situation where in the opposite direction there is sea....... not so great for riding on
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I hate riding across the bridges but my pony is an angel about them........ I ride them sensibly, normally straight down the middle and ask any traffic to wait until I am across..... I have only had one old biddy completely ignore me and insist on coming past!
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I think that if you do reply you need to be brief and to the point. I would say that 99% of the time you are confident that your horse will cross safely, it's the 1% of the time that you could do with higher parapets, for example when undertaken by a vicar as you try to cross correctly! Also politely point out that you are also a car driver, so do pay that tax. And maybe that you can only wish that all the open fields were available for you to ride on, but that in fact riders are very restricted about where they can go, and that's why they are forced to use roads when they would much rather not.
You could say you understand the point of view of drivers completely, and just beg them to think twice before getting annoyed when they meet a rider. Point out that in collisions with horses, the car drivers are as likely to die as the rider (when the horse goes through the windscreen).
If you make long and emotional replies you lose impact and people stop reading.
 
I cannot believe some of the comments I have just read. And whoever wrote that comment (i.e the one comment from an actual horse rider, I thought you did very well. I am not writing as I cannot refrain from wanting to scream at these morons!! lol)

I really do think that people think we can just ride anywhere we want and thus get annoyed when we are walking down a road with a perfectly good field next to us! I mean come on -
 
well I think they are wondering if it is that dangerous why on earth would anyone want to ride over a motorway bridge or keep their horses somewhere where they had to.

I can completely see the other side...... I do think if the horse riders instead had decided to fund raise to get the parapets raised there would be a different response but I know when they did one recently I was
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at the cost.
 
But perhaps less expensive than the local authority being found liable for breach of its duty of care and paying damages should there be an accident caused by a horse going over the side of the bridge...
 
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I am in somerset
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I ride over 3 motorway bridges.....
one which I use rarely as it is a long ride is a re route of an old bridleway, only a foot bridge and has the high sides.

The other 2 have no bridleways anywhere near them, we only have about 500yds worth near me anyway... and no I dont think that the council should pay for higher parapets.

There was a time when I had to ride the motorway route to hack because they closed a bridge over the river for 6 months and it was either that or go into town down the main road as hacking options! Now if I want to go that way it is my choice and most of the time I dont as the B road it is on is a bit fast and bendy for my likeing anyway.

I think my point is that there are many many motorway bridges, all probably used by 1 or 2 riders sometimes, I dont think this is enough to warrant them all getting higher parapets and what they cost.

I would be surprised from Wellington that you had to cross the motorway... yes if you want to get to the hills but it is your choice where you stable. There is land on the wellington side...... I am in a slightly different situation where in the opposite direction there is sea....... not so great for riding on
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I hate riding across the bridges but my pony is an angel about them........ I ride them sensibly, normally straight down the middle and ask any traffic to wait until I am across..... I have only had one old biddy completely ignore me and insist on coming past!
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So we can find £25million and more, to rape a road through the country side, but we cant find a few grand to make a bridge safe for riders who were "allready" there, why the hell should anyone move house and stables because of a new road, local people should be catered for when planning goes in for these things, if they cant afford it, dont build the road, NOT expect "us" to have to alter our life all the damn time, oh dont go now, the school run is on, oh dont go to town, there is a match on, ect ect, allways having to alter our life because school run arsholes double park and across peoples drives, football fans cause havoc for one reason or another, dont ride at Ticknall today, Donnigton motor bike racing is on, dont ride today a shoot is on, well you can bollocks, I will live my life as entitled, if you want to roll over and play dead thats up to you, perhaps we should all stay indoors.
For anyone thats wondering, I have riden on the road,when Donnighton was on, the motorcyclists were considerate and I thanked them, I have ridden outside the football stadium at Pride park when a match was on, I have ridden through Derby City Center when the Poppy Parade was marching, I got stuck in a traffic jam, Po was was wearing his Poppy on his Bridle with Pride, I regularly ride over a narrow footpath/cycle track bridge over the new A6 because the commercial park and A6 break up the old "existing" route "everyone" used to use.
Building crap in the name of jobs and progress is one thing, rolling over and being shited on is something else.
 
It shouldn't be down to horse riders to fund raised parapets. It is about motorway bridges being built with a suitable specification for all users.

You wouldn't suggest that lorry drivers should pay for all bridges to be made high enough for them to get under, you'd suggest that the authorities made them high enough in the first place! Or that parents of school children should fund a lollipop lady!

Horse riders are legitimate road users, and while they may not pay road tax neither do cyclists or drivers of classic cars or mobility scooters. But most horse riders do pay road tax on at least one vehicle and often a lorry too! Roads should always be designed with ALL road users in mind!
 
Well said Pedantic!

If they put a road across an existing right of way it is down to whoever is funding the road to put suitable alternative routes in at their expense whether that be crossings, bridges or tunnels. They should make sure that whatever is put in is suitable for all though. It isn't just low bridge parapets, it is also tunnels that are too low, or that flood. One of my hacking routes involves two tunnels under roads that are newer than the bridlepath and under both you have to duck if your horse is over about 15.2hh.
 
The M5 has been around since the 1970s so probably longer than these woman have owned horses - its not a new road. The bridge is probably getting on for 40 years old.

I used to have to regualry ride my horse over motorway bridges - which was not a problem until my mum watched 'The Omen' - scene where Damian makes a horse rear and dump his dad over the bridge and he dies - she then made us always get off and lead our horses over.
 
2 questions spring to mind while reading this thread and the article:

1) Why can't you just get off an lead your horse? If the 'risk' is that a human will be 'thrown' over the parapet surely leading will mitigate those risk.

2) How man riders (or cyclists) have been thrown/fall/stumbled over the parapet and ended up on the motorway being mooshed by cars? I would think that would make the news but I haven't seen any recent 'death by horse fall from motorway bridge' headlines
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*wanders off to look at OS map*

katt did you mean counting a right of way as a road? or a right of way as in a bridlepath. I do think if it is latter it is more important as in the one I said I use.

If this point was made at the time of construction of the road (the M5) I think it would be different, but the way others will see it as this bridge has now been in use as is for 40 years with no reported accidents so what is the problem. I was just playing a bit of devils advocate as I can completely see where other people are coming from

I know earlier the 99/1% of times was mentioned, I agree but that is the same with everything in life and everywhere we ride we take risks, if choose to minimise or take those risks that is mostly up to me. If on a saturday there is an accident on the M5 so that the road is closed and there are stacks of holiday makers then trying to get somewhere on the A38 I wont ride out, even round the lanes because you then get people on the side lanes who drive too fast and are not used to the road and dont think about horses. Maybe that isnt right but its just common sense. I hate the railway bridges just as much to ride over and they are not much higher sides wise. He could easily dump me over the river bridge but he hasnt yet and hopefully I would just get a bit damp
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eta and they probably why people want to ride horses if they are so dangerous! and could just stick to bicycles
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QR

Nothing really constructive to add here, but thought you might be interested in this...

I used to work for a civil engineering company. Among other things, they re-developed the A34 between the M40 and the M4, Chieveley area. As part of this, they had to re-build an old footbridge. It wasn't a well used bridge, but did form part of a bridleway. They produced their plans - for your typical footbridge, with steep slopes on either side (maybe even steps - can't remember now!), and low railings along the sides of the bridge.

Local riders campaigned, along with the BHS, and the project manager asked for a complete re-design. What was built was a well thought out bridge, with high sides, non-slip footing throughout, less steep slopes on either side, and signs showing riders which route to take (there was a shortcut for walkers and cyclists, so at first glance looked un-horse-friendly). 2 local riders were invited to open the bridge (ribbon cutting and everything!).

The designs were done in consultation with the BHS and local riders, and it was financed by the Highways Agency.

I'm not sure it would have been a successful campaign if the bridge hadn't been re-developed anyway, but perhaps it's worth keeping an eye out for bridge re-developments and start campaigning then? At least that way, some of the cost is already accounted for.
 
Because I do think this makes a difference
neither bridge (they are next to eachother) has bridlepaths near it..... there is one just up the way from the leyland one (round the hill a bit) which looks to have an underpass to cross the Mway
 
OMG...what a bunch of nasties!!

Do they not realise that horses actually have right of way over cars?!

We had a new MW bridge built recently ......very high, very narrow...but with a good 8-9 ft of barrier either side.....I don't particularly like going over it, but its very safe and no horse/rider would go over the top of it......

We also have plenty of road signs with 'Horses' on......We are semi-rural, with plenty of off-road hacking but we need obviously to get to these tracks/wodds in the first place...and generally people are ok...busses/lorries/M-bikes slow down for us......very few arseholes.

I'm starting to think the more rural/countrified it is...the worse people are......whats that about???

PS- Pendantic- see you got your two-pennorth in...nice one
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rana that seems more sensible to me! I am just adding up the cost per bridge and the number of motorway bridges in the UK..........which is why I think it an impractical suggestion that they all have raised parapets

and the number of accidents with horseriders on them....... which must be pretty low if at all.
 
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2 questions spring to mind while reading this thread and the article:

1) Why can't you just get off an lead your horse? If the 'risk' is that a human will be 'thrown' over the parapet surely leading will mitigate those risk.

2) How man riders (or cyclists) have been thrown/fall/stumbled over the parapet and ended up on the motorway being mooshed by cars? I would think that would make the news but I haven't seen any recent 'death by horse fall from motorway bridge' headlines
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I'm quite surprised that someone on a horsy forum should ask the first question. If you think you have more control from the ground than the saddle then fair dos for you. I was always told you had a far better chance of controlling a spooked horse from the saddle. My horse is 17.1 and I am 5 feet 1 and no way could I control that horse if he decided to bolt from the ground and the likliehood of a loose horse woudl be quite high, but in the saddle I can always stop him under any circumstances pretty quickly and react quicker to anything he does.



Since the bridge is about 40 years old, it is likely that is design is no longer up to modern standards of safety, is it not? And I agree that roads should be designed with all road users in mind and improved to a suitable standard where possible.

I too have not heard of any such deaths but this does not usually stop precautions being taken in the UK. The fact that the riders clearly feel at risk and vulnerable from the bridge design make it reasonably forseeable that should such an accident occur, the authority responsible for the bridge could be held liable. I am unaware of any deaths from fire in privately rented properties in Scotland before the Houses in Multiple Occupation regulations came into force, but that doesn't prevent every landlord having to comply with exhaustive fire safety requirements. You could say the same thing about a number of areas.

Existing roads are improved to modern standards all the time. I was recently saved when I skidded when driving from shooting down a ditch and hitting some large trees by a new safety barrier. If the road had been left as it originally was, I would have been in a serious accident, instead of coming to a harmless stop.
 
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I'm quite surprised that someone on a horsy forum should ask the first question. If you think you have more control from the ground than the saddle then fair dos for you.



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I have more control of my horse when I'm on her but that's not really the point here. The point is these riders are concerned they may be thrown from horse over parapet onto motorway. If you're not on the horse you can't have the throwing and the falling and the landing. Simples.

Loose horse's is a whole other safety issue which most motorist probably have no idea about. All I was saying is, can these ladies, that are complaining, get off and lead? Most of the bridges I cross when out on my (little) 15hh Arab have signs up stating that Equestrian must dismount before crossing the bridge. Do I heck get off but the onus is on the rider to take care of their own life.

As for the fires...just google 'death in rented property' and I'm sure you'll find plenty of examples. We can't go around looking for dangers, most health and safety comes from accidents that have previously happened. So until someone is thrown from their horse (or just looses their balance) and fall onto the motorway I think all should be left well alone. Unless it bothers the cyclist then something should be done immediately
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