Don't know what to do :(

J

jo_pearl

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Hi all,

I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I love my mare to pieces and to handle she is great but to ride it's getting really hard work. I've had her a year now have weekly lessons and at home she is improving so so much but the moment we leave the yard she gets so wound up! To the stage in embarrassed to take her out. I take her SJ she tanks round the course at 100 mph and gets so wound up going in the ring I can't even get her to walk! Took her to a local
Show the weeken in hand she was fantastic ridden she tanked off in gallop, wouldn't walk or trot kept leaping around in canter changing legs. I've really had enough. She's losing my confidence and upsetting me as my friends can go to shows but mines a liability. I Dnt know what to do! She's a lovely mare who has been passed to pillar and post due to how hot she is and I've tried so hard with her but I feel like it's 1 step forward 100 back. Yesterday I just wanted to cry cause I couldn't even get her to go nicely when I know she can. She didn't concentrate at all wouldn't listen and just wound herself up! I have a jeep and trailer and want to compete but taking her out is getting really stressful! Before I get on she's a saint the moment we enter the collecting ring it's canter everywhere head in air changing legs and leaping when I check her!

I don't know if I'm best to sell her on as I don't know what else I can do!!

I've tried calmers she stays out the night before shows she's worked 5 days a week and nothing matters! Even when she is a bath of pure swear she keeps going!

Even when schooling after my 1st canter that is it head has gone and she's not listening trying to run off each corner and starts going sidewards!

I'm slowly giving up :( btw she is 15yrs old!
 
Do you school her away from home e.g. hiring venues not on show days to get her used to working at strange places? Maybe get your instructor to initially ride her away from home as well.
 
Yeah I take her to different venues schooling and she is just as hot :( she is fine and stands in the arena quietly when he is talking but the moment I pick up a contact she winds her self up like a coiled spring! I don't know if anyone else would ride her she terrifies people who watch her!!!!
 
What do you do when she does this? Do you automatically fight her and squeeze your knees etc? I don't know how true it is cause not really NEEED to do it but would she kill you if you gave her more rein and asked her forward but into circles and diagonals etc? Might look ridiculous in sj ring but could work.
 
When she gets wound up I drop my contact and stroke her neck to try and chill her. When she is that wound up if I try and circle her she starts cantering sidewards and completely ignores my aids! She does fantastic leg yielding at home but in the ring she just launches forward and all my signals, aids etc are ignored and I may aswell not be on bored! She don't listen one bit! But she will stupidly stand so quietly in the ring when others canter round her and she doesn't care!!!!
 
Tbh, it doesn't really sound as if you would find many people who would bexwilling to buy her ATM! There are a few things you could try.
Look carefully at what you are feeding her on, take her off absolutely everything except grass and hay, even if she only has a little bit.
Try riding her on a very loose rein, try changing her bit, it could be that she becomes uncomfortable when you pick up the contact, she starts messing about, that makes you take a firmer contact and so it goes on.
I would also find a different instructor, this one doesn't seem to be helping much.
 
I know that is the thing :( others have ridden her and can't get on with her you don't ride her like your taught she has her own style! I have lessons with different instructors. I can school her on a loose rein but the moment we canter she gets so wound up that her head basically goes and it's back to work for 20mins and I may if I'm lucky get another trot! I've tried her in every bit from a-z! She schools at home in a snaffle but took her SJ the other day in a gag on the 2nd ring and she tanked off, bounced doubles etc I had no control
 
What do the instructors say? Are you accidentally trying to implement five different techniques at once hoping one will work and just confusing the mare ?

What if any did you find worked in any slight way?
 
If it were me I would have her checked out to make sure everything fits and she isn't in pain anywhere causing her reaction.

Did I read correctly that she does it at home to when canter is introduced?

If clean bill of health etc I would be looking at scrapping competing for a while and finding a decent regular instructor who can help you to sort out the cantering issue. If she is fantastic and that is the only problem I would try to see if I could fix this before giving up (unless your confidence does start to completely go).

Can an instructor school her for you? What is she like at home with someone else? What is she like at other venues with someone else?
 
Go back to the beginning and remember why you bought her, I guess you knew she was gassy and difficult and wanted the fun of something challenging, so what has changed, it sounds as though she has settled to a degree but your aspirations have become more about the fun of competing than the challenge of the schooling, she may find the whole competition thing too stressful and her way of showing it is too become totally wound up while she is on the move, rushing about at 100 miles an hour and charging over jumps is not a sign they are having fun it normally means they are stressed and trying to get it over with as quickly as possible.

Is she good hack, does she relax and enjoy it or is hacking just as tense and fast, if she is good then maybe you could rehome her for hacking only, of not I think you would struggle to sell and to me it is not fair to pass your problem on to someone else, at 15 she is likely to continue on a spiral downwards.

Schooling wise I would try a different approach, you say she schools on a loose rein but when you canter it all goes pear shaped, my way would be to walk on a long, not loose rein and gradually pick up a consistent contact, it may take a few days for her to accept this but it is worth trying, once she can walk, halt, walk on a contact and you can flex her left and right when asked you repeat in trot, so long rein in steady trot gradually picking up the contact, if she gets silly ignore her and quietly come back to walk, again it will take time and patience, you are basically rehabilitating her, absolutely no cantering until she is consistently working properly in walk and trot.
To keep you both interested use poles in walk and trot, these can be placed in many ways and are really useful as an aid especially in horses that tend to rush, it will be a long term project but in my mind until she accepts the contact she will never improve and cantering will always send her back to square 1, jumping will blow her mind, horses like this are far more difficult to retrain as they will test the patience of a saint but any attempt to cut corners will mean you set them back so easily, there is only one way to get the result you want and not many people have the time, patience or ability to get there.
 
You say she is good in hand but tanks off when ridden, if this is the case all the time/every day could it be that the ridden work is too uncomfortable for her? An xray of her back may shed some light on the matter.
 
No I have one instructor for flat and one for SJ and they are both helping me with the same issue.

I bought her as I was her last chance as no one wanted her and they were going to PTS as she was so hot and fizzy to ride no1 wanted her.

She has calmed down alot from when I had her I took her back to basis with jumping we started with poles on the floor and she has calmed down but the other week out competing she wound herself right up.

Everything she does is 100mph even walking on a loose rein!!!

I don't think anyone else would be able to ride her as she's so weird to ride and you can't be too strong she gets upset.

Out hacking she is 100% in traffic and is bold as brass but again gets very wound up coming home the moment you change direction she winds herself up again

Her heart is in the right place but it's not enjoyable cause she kinda makes a fool out of us as she won't settle for 2mins! Her mind always works at 100mph
 
See, I would take this from a different perspective.

You say she is wound up at walk even, so until that was sorted I would not move on from walk. In fact, if she can't handle walk then I would start from a level even lower than that, where she can handle it. For example I have helped horses who can't even be led at walk without being wound up, so we halt, walk a step and before they have gained momentum, come back to halt.

It has taken hours to walk across a car park from field to stable, but it was important to keep the horse in a place where he CAN cope, as that way he can find the loose rope and peace. If you barge on regardless the horse is always on a loser, as it can't cope so you pull all of the time, so the horse never gets a peaceful time, and stays wound up.

For me, I am uncomfortable to hear the horse is being bitted up and taken to a place you know he can't cope, more so that he is exhibiting dangerous behaviours such as bouncing doubles. I am uncomfortable for the horse, as I don't suppose he is enjoying that situation, uncomfortable for you being in danger, and uncomfortable for the other competitors for having their day disrupted.

If you are serious about helping the horse I would take it right back, start with ground work until the horse will react to pressure and release, so you can learn where the release and peace is for the horse. Once you can back up off a slight pressure, then I would go to ridden work, but it would be halt, to walk and back to halt before the horse has a chance to wind up. If you get the timing right the horse will learn where his peace is, and become relaxed and responsive

I would change the people who help you TBH, if they are encouraging you to go to shows when the horse is so uncomfortable even in a quiet, hired place. It seems they are setting you both up to fail. Of course, I don't know your trainers, and that may not be their plan at all, they may well be encouraging you to start at the beginning and work up as and when the horse can cope, in which case listen to them.

I would also check all the basics, feed, soundness, teeth, tack etc etc, but from what you have said these things may or may not be amiss, but while the horse is taken into situations he is not equipped to deal with, the situation is unlikely to improve.

It can be hard when you are in the situation to see the bigger picture, so that is when you need to recognise that things are not progressing as you hope and to get help. I guess posting on here was your call for something better than you already have.

Re-schooling a troubled horse can be time consuming and emotionally draining, but there are many gifts along the way, not least the gift of having to re-examine everything you thought you knew about horses, and learning a deeper understanding. You have to get into their minds, not just their body responses.

Good luck with your horse.
 
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Oh dear, she isn't welsh is she? My girl was exactly like this. Once she'd had a trot, she didn't want to walk, once she'd had a canter she just wanted more and faster canter. She would lock her radar onto the nearest jump, never mind the course, anticipated everything, jogged me to oblivion, tossed her head and covered me with gob, in general, a loon. I did a huge amount of schooling both in the arena and in very open spaces and relied on my voice as the main aid. She did stop jogging but was always quick on the draw and plodding was never in her vocabulary. My advice is to keep going with her, work on the slow stuff, if she misbehaves at the faster pace, go back to small slow circles. Reward with something she likes, punish with something that bores her rather than get cross with her as you will just wind her up more. Mares, well you just have to live with them. They can drive you absolutely mad but on their good days will give you everything they have. You just have to be adaptable to their mood because you will never MAKE them do anything. Chat to her while you are riding. It helps to keep your breathing regular which is calming for you both. I used to talk absolute rubbish to my girl, tell her what was on my shopping list or whatever, and bizarrely I found riding one handed seemed to calm her too. She did improve steadily over the years and I could have a really good gallop in a straight line and know that I could stop her again. She retained the tendency to be a loon in the ring but hey, all the judges knew what she was like and would laugh at her (it didn't help that she was a very dominant mare who HAD to be in front, and preferably a long way in front - not easy in a show ring when you end up behind the smallest or slowest moving competitor!) . I rode her in a dutch gag with two reins, or a hanging snaffle for dressage, no martingale and a cavesson noseband. An instructor made me put a flash on her and buckled her mouth shut so tight it cut her face. Did it work? No of course not so I took it off again. She was what she was and I worked around it.
 
I had a pony like this, showing her would have been a waste of time, far too fizzy, so we stuck to jumping and xc where she excelled. I also own a small pony who even at 26 with Cushings is very hot to ride and I think thats just the way she is.
 
How is she on long reins?

I would consider doing some straightness training, excellent to get them to stop being so darn emotional and think about things while developing all the right muscles :)

I'd be inclined not to jump her at all for a bit as she doesn't sound terribly safe if she is bouncing through doubles etc on a fairly frequent basis.
 
So you 'rescued' her from being PTS because she displayed this behaviour & now because she's still displaying this behaviour you are unable to enjoy her & you are losing confidence in her & she's 15.

Sometimes people aren't having horses PTS because they're cruel but because they have reached the end of the road with what they can try to improve a horse's behaviour.

You have had some great advice on this thread & I agree with lots of it.
You need to stop trying to take her to shows, stop jumping her, cut all hard feed, get her throughly investigated by a vet (I will put good money on this being a long term pain issue) & think about how you can start her again to learn that it's ok to be a little more chilled about life.
 
ester said:
How is she on long reins?

I would consider doing some straightness training, excellent to get them to stop being so darn emotional and think about things while developing all the right muscles :)

I'd be inclined not to jump her at all for a bit as she doesn't sound terribly safe if she is bouncing through doubles etc on a fairly frequent basis.
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This.

I would be doing alot of ground work, lunging and long reining. It helps with your voice aids, slowing down and speeding up from voice aids.

I would stop the jumping for now. As she gets more relaxed and controllable at home, hire an arena and just go to "play about" a bit. Make it a short, stress free experience, no jumping, just a bit of lunging and flatwork. I also love using trotting poles for establishing rhythm and they are fun :D

My own mare is incredibly hot, It took me a year to learn to ride her properly and even at that it was all about guaging her mood. I could be in a lesson one day and we would get some lovely canter half-pass, pirrouettes etc. Next lesson, wouldn't leg yield in trot and didn't dare canter as she was like an unexploded bomb, just couldn't get my leg on. Most people will tell you to "ride through it" but when you have a horse like that who is prone to panic/stress, it just isn't an option and you will loose the battle. What is the point in asking them to do something that they find stressfull.

Sometimes you just need to think outside the box. Lunging and polework really helped my girl alot.
 
Horses are a very expensive hobby and you should be enjoying yourself. Get a horse that you can have some fun with and make you happy. Life's too short.
 
Red-1 said:
See, I would take this from a different perspective.

You say she is wound up at walk even, so until that was sorted I would not move on from walk. In fact, if she can't handle walk then I would start from a level even lower than that, where she can handle it. For example I have helped horses who can't even be led at walk without being wound up, so we halt, walk a step and before they have gained momentum, come back to halt.

It has taken hours to walk across a car park from field to stable, but it was important to keep the horse in a place where he CAN cope, as that way he can find the loose rope and peace. If you barge on regardless the horse is always on a loser, as it can't cope so you pull all of the time, so the horse never gets a peaceful time, and stays wound up.

For me, I am uncomfortable to hear the horse is being bitted up and taken to a place you know he can't cope, more so that he is exhibiting dangerous behaviours such as bouncing doubles. I am uncomfortable for the horse, as I don't suppose he is enjoying that situation, uncomfortable for you being in danger, and uncomfortable for the other competitors for having their day disrupted.

If you are serious about helping the horse I would take it right back, start with ground work until the horse will react to pressure and release, so you can learn where the release and peace is for the horse. Once you can back up off a slight pressure, then I would go to ridden work, but it would be halt, to walk and back to halt before the horse has a chance to wind up. If you get the timing right the horse will learn where his peace is, and become relaxed and responsive

I would change the people who help you TBH, if they are encouraging you to go to shows when the horse is so uncomfortable even in a quiet, hired place. It seems they are setting you both up to fail. Of course, I don't know your trainers, and that may not be their plan at all, they may well be encouraging you to start at the beginning and work up as and when the horse can cope, in which case listen to them.

I would also check all the basics, feed, soundness, teeth, tack etc etc, but from what you have said these things may or may not be amiss, but while the horse is taken into situations he is not equipped to deal with, the situation is unlikely to improve.

It can be hard when you are in the situation to see the bigger picture, so that is when you need to recognise that things are not progressing as you hope and to get help. I guess posting on here was your call for something better than you already have.

Re-schooling a troubled horse can be time consuming and emotionally draining, but there are many gifts along the way, not least the gift of having to re-examine everything you thought you knew about horses, and learning a deeper understanding. You have to get into their minds, not just their body responses.

Good luck with your horse.
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Agree totally with this approach. Assuming thorough vet checks have been done (would check for ulcers and KS too) I would do what Red1 says. Take it right back. I took on an 11 year old ex steeple chaser. He had to be raced in a gag bit. He was turbo charged at all times. But when he wanted to charge ahead, he always got the opposite to what he wanted. If we transitioned from walk to trot, for example, and he charged off in trot or even canter then I immediately brought him back to walk. In fact, it was several months before we progressed to canter as walk and trot had to be perfect and calm first. He ended up a really useful little dressage horse who was also my best and bravest hacking horse ever.
 
She has been fully vet checked there is nothing physically wrong with her. Her previous owners have all passed her on due to how hot she is.

She is ok to lunge not long rein she gets worked up to much, but even lunging is 100MPH!!!

She is fed nothing but grass and is living out and present and it makes no difference.

Truthfully i bought her heart over head as i felt sorry for her and when she works lovely she works lovely and XC she is amazing extremely strong but will honestly jump anything infront of her.

I am just slowly losing my confidence with her and its not becoming enjoyable anymore. i want a horse i can compete seeing i have a jeep and trailer and did my towing test. i dont want to be a taxi for others and not have fun with my own horse :(

Ive had her a year and yes she has improved loads, but she always does something to leave me down and its heart breaking as i give her everything and all i want is for her to shut off for 5 mins and just do a nice little dressage test or hack back without cantering sidewards.
 
Fatpiggy she is part welsh!!!

Shes not in any pain or discomfort and she loves to jump her ears are always forward but cause we travel at such speed and she jumps so big she has to bounce doubles to get us out! if i check her she leaps forward and changes legs.

Pole work is a nightmare the moment she sees a pole she gets wound up and excitable to the point i cant do nothing with her :(

to handle on the ground she is 100% and to do flat with she is in walk and trot and her 1st canter is fantastic but once we break the canter that is it :(
 
Hi Manyangold she has had everything done to her within the 1st 6 months i bought her (a friend of mines dad is a vet) and he said she is 100% physically fine there is no pain there it is all set within her mentality and everyone who has previously owned her (11 dif owners) have all said to the next person they have given up due to the way she is sooo hot!

Shes happy in herself and is the easiest horse on the yard to deal with but not ride. Shes had a bit of a rough life but is honest as the days come. if i could just cool her down she would be a fantastic all rounder but i cant switch her off at all :(
 
If you cannot take her right back to the very basics, as Red-1, myself and a few others have suggested, it will be a very long haul and could be frustrating to not be out enjoying yourself for months if not longer, then you really have just a few options as what you are doing will never become fun, you need to think very carefully about passing her on to a very uncertain future, you could retire her to a field or have her pts, the latter option sounds harsh but in reality it ensures she never gets passed on from pillar to post and ends up in a dire situation, it is a brave person who looks at the bigger picture and does the right thing for a difficult horse, life is too short to continue struggling with a horse that is just hard work.
 
glamourpuss said:
So you 'rescued' her from being PTS because she displayed this behaviour & now because she's still displaying this behaviour you are unable to enjoy her & you are losing confidence in her & she's 15.

Sometimes people aren't having horses PTS because they're cruel but because they have reached the end of the road with what they can try to improve a horse's behaviour.

You have had some great advice on this thread & I agree with lots of it.
You need to stop trying to take her to shows, stop jumping her, cut all hard feed, get her throughly investigated by a vet (I will put good money on this being a long term pain issue) & think about how you can start her again to learn that it's ok to be a little more chilled about life.
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Couldn't agree more.

I can't believe that two different instructors are still taking money from you and encouraging (or not saying anything) you to take her to shows etc when she's obviously unsafe for anyone to be near when her head goes. They're robbing you blind but I also think you have to question your own experience, not so much ability wise, but why haven't you realized you are trying to put a round peg in a square hole; she's just not suited to the ridden work you want her to do (she might be completely different doing a job she loves such as hunting or endurance) and at that age she's not going to change her ways unless you have enough patience to write off at least a year in just doing groundwork which doesn't seem the case from your post.

Either give up now and put down for her behaviour issues; nobody will think the worst of you, they'll just be relieved that someone hasn't been killed by her already - or retire her as she's obviously very very unhappy at being ridden - but whatever you do, do NOT pass her on as either a broodmare or free to a good home. Do the decent thing yourself and put her down before you ever do that.
 
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I wouldnt just pass her on to anyone she would be no good as a broodmare, if anything she would go to my friends farm to retire with her old games pony.

They aint robbing me. They are along with me trying everything to make us both enjoy going to shows together, i really dont think she would ever kill someone not once as she ever reared or bucked shes just over excitable to be ridden.

Yeah she is really hard work. when i had her we took things back to basis was schooling her etc and she would slowly come along but then would go back 10 steps! After a year i feel we have come no where and this is a year of her being ridden a min of 3 times a week.

I have honestly tried everything i just hate taking her places and ending up crying cause for 2 mins she could do a walk trot test for me.

shes my first horse (stupid i know) and its kind of making me think twice about owning a horse.
 
Maesfen said:
Couldn't agree more.

I can't believe that two different instructors are still taking money from you and encouraging (or not saying anything) you to take her to shows etc when she's obviously unsafe for anyone to be near when her head goes. They're robbing you blind but I also think you have to question your own experience, not so much ability wise, but why haven't you realized you are trying to put a round peg in a square hole; she's just not suited to the ridden work you want her to do (she might be completely different doing a job she loves such as hunting or endurance) and at that age she's not going to change her ways unless you have enough patience to write off at least a year in just doing groundwork which doesn't seem the case from your post.

Either give up now and put down for her behaviour issues; nobody will think the worst of you, they'll just be relieved that someone hasn't been killed by her already - or retire her as she's obviously very very unhappy at being ridden - but whatever you do, do NOT pass her on as either a broodmare or free to a good home. Do the decent thing yourself and put her down before you ever do that.
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That is a good point about the 2 instructors, it can be hard to advise if the owner does not want to hear but in this case to have 2 instructors thinking going out competing is acceptable is unbelievable, I would expect 1 of them to suggest taking the time to work on the basics at least but I guess they are happy to take the money, go through the motions of a lesson and move on to the next client, I like to get right to the bottom of issues even if it means the owner has to hear something they don't really want to.
 
jo_pearl said:
I wouldnt just pass her on to anyone she would be no good as a broodmare, if anything she would go to my friends farm to retire with her old games pony.

They aint robbing me. They are along with me trying everything to make us both enjoy going to shows together, i really dont think she would ever kill someone not once as she ever reared or bucked shes just over excitable to be ridden.

Yeah she is really hard work. when i had her we took things back to basis was schooling her etc and she would slowly come along but then would go back 10 steps! After a year i feel we have come no where and this is a year of her being ridden a min of 3 times a week.

I have honestly tried everything i just hate taking her places and ending up crying cause for 2 mins she could do a walk trot test for me.

shes my first horse (stupid i know) and its kind of making me think twice about owning a horse.
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If you have somewhere to retire her to, and can afford to do that and get another one, I'd do that like a shot.
Get yourself a nice gelding and go and have some fun
 
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