Don't know what to do :(

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After some advice as I feel in a bit of a rut. The background- 6yo connemara gelding Smokey, had for last year. Originally kept at a yard on full livery but moved in may to grass livery. We have a stable field shelter and fenced off area to school in, as well as menage to use 2 days a week. It felt in the summer like 3 steps forward 1 back I got him schooling nicely in the field (not in an outline) soft and responsive non spooky and fine to leave other horse, hacking out well in company a little hesitant in front but ok, havent taken him out by himself recently. First time using menage took both horses down smokey planted wouldnt move I eventually got to walk wouldnt trot. Eventually followed other horse but very nappy to say the least. Next time didnt take the other horse tried leading him around and he was prancing around or napping and if asked to do something he didnt want was striking out. Eventually got him calmed down walked and trotted circle at 1 end of school slow (so still napping but at least actually moving) on one rein and would only do it on the other rein following a person on ground. Ridden in field few more times absloutely fine jumping coure of 4 jumps sensible and forward going. Today tried to take him away from other horse after brought them both down to tack up and he got half way to schooling area and refused to move then started to strike out put on lungeline to give distance and still wouldnt go forward lunged ok in that area. Got the other horse who he then followed up to schooling area and other horse waited by gate. Smokey wouldnt move put head down threatened to buck or spin and drop a shoulder going backwards....put other horse in middle of school and after a couple of half hearted naps schooled for 20mins reasonably nicely.

So the problem seems to be removing him from the other horse and then serious napping that Im too scared/worried to push through. Im not exactly sure what he would do if I didnt back of and ask again when he says no. He might eventually go or he may escalate to full on bronco pony and I really dont want to come off.

Tonight weve seperated them so in fields next to each other. (They do have other horses seperated by 1 fence that they do groom etc over) Plan is to take him down to menage tomorrow and see how he is. I dont know what to do in long term- its not much fun feeling like I have a spoilt brat for a pony- any thoughts?
A) sell him to dealer
B) Give him back to old owner and he can go back to being a lawn mower
C) Persevere for rest of winter riding 3 times a week hope he improves with softly softly treatment (I dont give up but it takes so long each time just to get him through the nappiness and even if I 'win' one day the next he can be just as bad ie he doesnt seem to learn its easier just to do it right the first time. )Im taking him for a lesson at instructors yard in a weekthis will be first trip since Ive had him I dont know how he will be....but he needs to start getting out and about. Will take him on his own.
D) or something else..
E) leave with instructor for schooling for a few weeks

Just to add when i first moved him he was very unsettled and would turn when schooling and take off broncing back to gate- and got me off a few times- so we have made progress just ridiculously slowly and I really dont like him threatening to strike when he doesnt want to do something eg be led away from other horse, school in a new area etc....had his teeth done a month ago saddle done recently and vet checked him 6 weeks ago when out to see another horse and thinks behavioural. He is worse on the ground than ridden but think mainly because I dont get on him until he is behaving reasonably sensibily as Im not keen on being chucked off!

Final though done horse agility with him and he is very good because he wants to do it and Im only doing it in achooling area where he is comfortable and not taking him away from another horse so he can have good ground manners when he feels like it.

Any ideas very gratefully received :)
 
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Get a professional on him ASAP. If you are worried about falling off then you will not be able to push past his behaviour, and he knows it.
 
Was he good when he was on full livery/before he moved?

The easiest way to see if he is pushing his bounderies with you is to get a professional to ride him, as Cortez has suggested.

If you can't/don't want to do this, you could long line him. Doing exactly the same things that beings out the naughty behaviour. Much easier to work through it from the ground.

I would be working him more if at all possible, depends how much you like him as well :)
 
Im not sure how much i like him lol. He is more affenctionate on the ground than anyhorse ive had before like cuddles and go and sit with him when hes lying down. Schooling wise he is better than when on full livery he can school nicely hes a lot more forward and more balanced. But he didnt do this striking thing when being led somewhere he didnt want to go/away from other horse- this he has learnt in last few weeks/couple of months but he was in a field with 3 not 2 horses which i thinked helped. I think part of the problem is hes really bonded to our other horse :(

Edited to add yup more work would probably help i just worry about doing things in the dark(we have lights over schooling area) with noone else around. Incidentally was same problem on full livery noone around when i finish /get back fromwork at 6.30
 
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Second Cortez and DE. Longreining you can do safely on your own too. Sounds like the change in set up and less daylight has allowed him to be a bit of a brat.
 
The problem you're going to have, if you remain in this set-up is that any horse who tests you you back down because you don't want to fall off. So you're inadvertantly teaching the horse to throw it's toys out the pram every time it doesn't want to do anything. This could easily happen to any horse you own. If you don't want to return to full livery (where the yard staff are most likely keeping the basic manners in place for you) then you may as well persevere with this horse, with professional help.
 
He sounds like a typical young connie who has learnt that throwing his toys out of the pram means he gets out of doing work.

This sort of nappiness is usually easily fixed but you need to be a confident enough rider to not be afraid to push him through the silliness. Having an instructor or a friend on the ground may be enough to boost your confidence or you may need to get someone else to ride him through it the first few times to remind him of his manners.

I agree with others though that this sort of thing is likely to happen with any horse if you're too afraid of falling off to ride assertively. Perhaps a riding with confidence course where you learn to fall safely might help get rid of your fears.
 
Thanks everyone, I didnt used to be so scared off falling off its just in the last 6mths my partner has ended up with severe concussion a friend has broken her pelvis and another had a broken femur all from falling off other horses (not smokey!). I never get off until hes going reasonably ok but it does scare me when he pretends/tries to drop his shoulder put his head on floor or go backwards. Im pretty sure all he needs is a few ponyclub kicks or pulling his head up and a couple of smacks. The lessons I have are good- but he never threatens to buck with instructor there or just does it half heartedly and Im fine riding him through this maybe because I ride him better or am more assertive when instructor there.

Any thoughts on how to stop him trying to strike out when leading him somewhere he has decided he doesnt want to go? Is it best just to circle him until hes bored (if i stop trying to go forward he stops trying to strike- I know hes basically taught me to back down....) and then try to get him to go forward? I have dealt with horses that plant but striking out when leading is a completely different ball game :s if he doesnt mind going where i want to go ie most /95 percent of time he is very well mannered...
 
If I had a horse striking out when leading I'd carry a whip and hit the offending leg whilst saying a loud "No". The whip can also be used in your spare hand (so left hand if you're leading on the left) to tap him where your leg would be when ridden, to send him forward. If you lead a little further back closer to the shoulder you'll be out of range of striking front legs.
 
If I was leading him and he tried to strike I would back him up several steps sharpish. Then walk forwards with him slightly behind you. As soon as he starts again back him up. You must be assertive, don't just let him shimmy back. When leading also don't hold the rope too short.
 
FestiveFuzz said:
He sounds like a typical young connie who has learnt that throwing his toys out of the pram means he gets out of doing work.

This sort of nappiness is usually easily fixed but you need to be a confident enough rider to not be afraid to push him through the silliness. Having an instructor or a friend on the ground may be enough to boost your confidence or you may need to get someone else to ride him through it the first few times to remind him of his manners.

I agree with others though that this sort of thing is likely to happen with any horse if you're too afraid of falling off to ride assertively. Perhaps a riding with confidence course where you learn to fall safely might help get rid of your fears.
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Agree with this. My horse is half Connie and he realised this year that if he naps and spooks he doesn't have to do work as I will get off (same mistake you are making). He bucked a couple of times but when he did that he got hit with a stick so he didn't try that often. But i suffered the same anxieties as you if not worse I was a mess and nothing like my former self. Had an instructor tell me he was dangerous and to sell him. But he wasnt dangerous he had gotten used to getting what he wanted.

I knew he used to be good so stuck with him and made myself become more confident and push him through it. He is a lot better now and apart from genuine spooking now he doesn't pull that stunt anymore and hasn't tried napping in ages. He would terrify me though as while he has the mind of a Connie he has the body of a warmblood and is incredibly powerful. It could be a bad mix if he wasn't as nice as he is. He just knows when to push buttons and he knows now not to push them.

I think keep trying with him. Getting a professional may not work as he knows he can push your buttons. My horse would be fine with others but be rude with me he knew when he could get away with it. As scary as it is push him through it yourself. Next time he tries bucking or spinning or napping hold your hands up high and kick him hard. I bet he will be shocked at your change in attitude he probably won't do anything but what he is told. Worked on my one. I also found that if he tried napping or spinning I would make him walk or trot all over the arena never once doing a straight line or going around the edge of the arena. If I didn't let him think he didn't play up. Don't let your horse think and he won't find a reason to misbehave.
 
Maybe this is a Connemara thing?

I have owned one for over four years, the most complex little mind I've ever worked with. Instantly learns what I'm asking, rein back, leg yield, walk to canter like he has done it all before.

This is also the same for suddenly spinning at every fifth car out hacking. Or broncing when put on a 20 m circle to the point of me flying off therefore we'll try it on every 20m circle but large is no problem, put someone else but mum on & is an angel on any size circle. Napping and refusing to walk through the ménage gate when ridden, but fine in hand. I could go on....

Sensitive intelligent breed.
I'm currently going through a backwards stage. It will get better...I think. But remember it's for fun & not to scare yourself.
 
Quick update from today- he was worse on the ground really taking the mick but stuck at it and got him leading nicely- I think focusing on getting him leading nicely rather than focussing on stopping him striking is helping; if that makes sense- so not letting his escalate to striking.... He only put in 1 half hearted nap when I got on- then really nice to ride walk to canter and halt to trot and downwards transitions too, and popping over jumps in between keeping him busy never doing the same thing more than once etc...I think we'll get there may take years..... but i did go for a youngster after all and definitely lack of riding with short days isnt helping.... If he was a brat all the time Id give up but he can be so nice both to ride and on the ground and when hes going nicely he really is lovely ...hey ho its nice to hear other people have also experienced similar connie issues :)
 
Typical quirky Connie behaviour, I'm afraid. They either seem to be docile and a bit lazy or else exactly as you describe, highly intelligent, really affectionate and loving, but incredibly difficult to work with and a complete enigma. Mine is the most successful pony I've ever had - HOYS, RIHS, the lot - and also the most frustrating and difficult. Persevere. I did so because when mine is good he's amazing, but boy we have had some bad times too. Three years in and he's less difficult less often and we understand each other and he's made me a much better rider and much more in tune with whatever I am riding. When I got him I had a sort of summer honeymoon period and then the first winter was really hit and miss: I sometimes couldn't lunge him without him either planting and refusing to budge, or else going mental and risking injury to himself; couldn't really hack him out on his own further than the end of the lane; and some days I could only ride in the arena after twenty minutes of my husband leading me around on him. But he was always gorgeously loving. Then with time, patience and a huge amount of learning I now have a pony who will lunge sensibly whenever required, is lovely to hack out, and works as well in the winter as in the summer. I take nothing for granted, and he still has a spin or a spook, or plants, but his resistence is nothing like it used to be and I've achieved so much with him, and not only in showing - We recently won our first ODE together. Strategies that helped: 1) Riding forwards, forwards, forwards, without a contact when I first get on, taking a leap of faith, using a neck strap, and not giving him anything to argue with. Straight up in to trot as soon as I get on, and go, go, go before he's had time to think about it. Hard to do this when you know they might ping you into the stratosphere, but it seems to work. 2) If he plants, back up, and keep backing up until you can put your leg on and he goes forward, or turn on a small circle until he accepts going forwards. Do a few rein-back to canter transitions. 3) Lots of pole work, moving the poles around every session so that there is always something new and different, halting in between poles, up and down transitions between poles, keeping his brain occupied. 4) Set achievable aims, keep sessions short, don't get in to an argument; learn to read his 'mood' and if you read that he's not really in work mood, but you need to work because it's your only chance because of time/weather/etc, adjust your expectations accordingly, so that it's always a good session. If he's good still keep it very varied and relatively short, don't give him chance for it to develop in to a bad session. Positive, positive, positive. 5) Yes, integrate as much jumping as you can in to your flatwork. The quirky ones are incredibly talented and usually very naturally balanced. 6) I find that riding on alternate days seem to work, or even work one day, don't work two days, then he really wants to do it. Previously I was trying to work him every day because he was so sharp and so on his toes, but less is definitely more.

Honestly, I have to constantly be thinking up new ways to keep his work varied. These ponies are so intelligent and so strong minded. The longer you have a Connie the more familiar it will become to hear about how quirky the really good ones are. pm me if you'd like my number, happy to have a chat any time about the challenges of owning a contrary connie. Good luck.
 
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MissJessica said:
Maybe this is a Connemara thing?
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Think it is. I think mine isn't as bad because he is only half Connie and his sire was the oldenburg side and had a reputation for producing nice obedient foals so I only got half a devil. :P I went through the backwards stage in the summer thankfully past it now *touches wood*. Just got to hope we don't get the same attitude next summer.
 
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