don't know what to think..

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ldlp111

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Ok so abit of background on my horse.

She is 15.1hh (ish) tbxcob, I've had her since she was 6 months old. Was first person to sit on her but had to send her away to be brought on professionally as she is a very lazy horse and was hard to get moving forward etc.:)

Anyway when she came home she was loads better and was happily jumping courses of jumps etc.

She is 9 now and has just had different saddle fitted so this should not be problem, had back checked and teeth done regularly.:)

One she first came back she never used to head shake or anything but she is not happy about something now and is tossing head about etc.
When I had McTimmoney person out she siad she is using all wrong muscles, using bottom of neck instead of topline, so when asked to use topline she head toss's to avoid using correct muscles.
This video is after she has had back done and she is alot better

Trying to find video of test before but can't at the moment.:rolleyes:

Anyway I'm just wondering whether is it the using wrong muscles which could be causing issues still or as someone suggested to me recently that it's the bit:confused: But I would of thought if it was the bit then would of been head-shaking etc all time :confused:

Not sure if that waffle makes any sense at all :o

Thanks for reading any input would be great.:)
 
Dont rule out the saddle being part of the problem. Even if its fitted, it could be pinching etc.
Not every saddle suits every horse.
 
Vid wouldn't play (but I'm at work, so could be the system here).

When does she toss her head around? Are her nostrils going like the clappers/squaring? Does she rub one side of her face more than the other? Have you tried a nose net; a nose bag; ear covers?

I ask the above because Dizz does the same, and we can't decide if she is just being a stroppy mare or if it's an allergy of some sort. She does it when a contact is taken up; her nostrils square off; and she always rubs her right nostril when she gets chance. However, she doesn't do any of the above in the field, and when she's settled down when she's working (which can take a good half hour - doesn't make any difference if in field, school or on a hack) it tossing about usually stops. If I let her get on with it, it doesn't stop (or takes forever), but if I keep after her, asking for flexion, softening, etc., then she does.

Sorry, not much help to you, but you're not alone! I'm looking at the Sprenger bits, hoping the different metal will help - I'll let you know!

Edited: I forgot to say - quite often she is calmer if she has her ear thingy on; and I've just bought a net nose bag to see if that helps (she has the normal nose net but just plays with that!).
 
Well she was doing this with old saddle which was too tight :( have a different saddle now.

Never tried a nose net or ear covers, she sometimes rubs nose a few times but not a major amount.

When I ask for canter she barely moves anywhere just practically bounces on spot with head moving around etc. Im wondering whether I need to give the pessoa longer to work or look elsewhere for problems or whether this is just her bad habit now :confused:
 
Wellllll, leaping in where angels fear to tread.... we have a horse just like that except it only does it when a friend rides him. When I ride the horse it goes on the bit and doesn't put head in air / toss head around. Basically it just takes the p**s if it can.

So, does your horse do this no matter who rides?
 
I've watched the video and I'd say she doesn't look happy about something.

What bit do you ride her in? Is there a reason she wears a flash?

Does a vet check her teeth or an EDT? When was it last done? Have you had a vet look at her and watch her being ridden? Has the back person watched her being ridden?

It may be worth getting a 2nd opinion on the saddle. She doesn't look comfortable.

Does she ever go to itch her nose on her leg or anything? I only watched half the video, but to me it didn't look classic head shaking, more real resistance. Even when her head was steady she was holding it very out and stiff if you know what I mean.
 
Right in response to other people riding don't know what she would do as since i've had her back i'm the only one to ride her, she can be sharp and spooky so I worry about her blowing up with someone else on her.

The videos are with old saddle have only just in last week got a new one, so I guess time will tell if she is happier with that.

Teeth are due in next month I think and were done by an EDT last time.

She was wearing a sweet iron french link in second video and a metal lozenge bit in first I think.
 
How long was it between the videos? She looked a lot worse in the 2nd one that the 1st.

Why do you use a sheepskin half pad? Just wondering if the saddle was tight, that is gonna make it worse.... My old boy use to throw his head a bit when he was younger. We had physio and a new saddle and it cured it. They can shake their head to relieve tension in their back.

Have you had a qual physio look at her back rather than the McTimoney? I would also consider having a vet watch you ride.
 
First video is the most recent being on 18/04/10 and second video was 21/03/10 I think.
The half pad was due to saddle rubbing hair off back but have changed saddles now and no longer use that.
Only had Mctimmony do her back, don't know of any good physios in my area, she was as you can see better after back was done, in which I was told using all wrong muscles which could be why she was head shaking etc.
I now have a pessoa so am unsure whether to continue with this for longer with new saddle or look at other areas for problems.
Obviously I am not made of money so can't and don't really want to go down vet route.
 
I just looked at your video from June 09. She's messing about there, I didn't watch all the way through though.

This may come across as rude, it's not intended to be. Have you got a decent instructor and what does he/she say? It looks to me as if it's a habit she's got into, same as working upside down. In which case fixing it, as you are the only rider, will involve re-educating both of you as well as rebuilding her muscles to enable her to work correctly.
 
I'd keep doing what you are doing then. Because from what I saw on the videos, there was a definite improvement from the 2nd vid to the 1st.

I'd continue with the pessoa work. Is there a reason why you think you shouldn't? Keep doing what you are doing, especially as you now have a new saddle that fits better. It might just sort itself out now.
 
I agree this looks like a schooling issue, youre not working her into a true contact so she's having a little too much freedom to move her head where she wantsa and it's unbalancing her which exacerbates the problem.
I'd definitely get a good EDT to check her teeth to rule them out as a contributory factor asap.
 
I don't have an instructor because £25 for each hour lesson is alittle too much at present.
You're probably right she's taken advantage and now when I ask for her to work more she resists. Will try to be more strict on ourselves.
I have however joined a riding club but they havnt organised any training yet which was the main reason I joined:rolleyes:

Ok will continue with pessoa and maybe go back to 2 sessions a week and see if that and new saddle helps situation :)
 
Hi

Does she do it if you ride bareback? From the pics it looks like you might be putting the saddle quite far forward so it may be pinching her shoulder. This is often more obvious in canter as the shoulder has to come alot further forward so any problems are magnified. Often results in head on one side, trying to stretch forward, hopping up and down or bucking.

Just a thought.
 
Never ridden her bareback and don't intend to don't trust enough not to spook at something.:o
I have a different saddle to one in videos and I place saddle on and gently push it until it will go no further if that makes sense so I'm pretty sure in right place :) But will carry on with pessoa and ridden work as normal for now and see if different saddle helps. :)
She's never been a very forward going horse until it comes to jumping :)
Oh and am arranging for EDT to come out again
 
ldlp111 said:
I don't have an instructor because £25 for each hour lesson is alittle too much at present.
Click to expand...

Having a few lessons NOW at £25 a go may well save you hundreds in vet / saddler / dentist fees in the long run.

It looks like a schooling issue to me, she is hollowing constantly and it isn't being corrected by the rider. A couple of decent lessons with a good instructor will help you hugely, and without some instruction your progress may well be painfully slow and possibly non existent.
 
It could be anything really from being very uneducated (she looks like a newly broken in horse) to something more significant (she shuffles along, and never tracks up).

Get a good instructor to assess her for you and her and go from there.
 
I'd go for saddle first. She looks very restricted in front and unwilling to let her shoulderblades move properly. Have a look at the Balance International website.
 
Shes not working properly over her back and just gives a general 'upside down' impression. You need to get an instructor to help you and take her right back to the beginning. I agree with Amymay in that she looks like a newly broken horse, not a 9yr old. Her back is week and shes just avading your attempt at contact by putting her head in the air. She needs to be working from her hindlegs, over her back and into a soft contact. At the moment shes wobbling along (shes very crooked) and sticking her nose in the air as she can avade your contact as its not good enough (i dont mean that to sound rude by the way). To get her over her back and working correctly and listening to you you need to be able to sit up straight, use your seat and legs and all this goes in to a soft rein.

To get this issue sorted you need to have lessons, its not something that can be done on your own. Whereabouts are you in Somerset as i might know someone cheaper who i can recommend? Do you have an arena at your yard to school in?
 
it looks just like how my mare used to go - she was older but had never been ridden into a correct outline and had also come to me v broken from a badly fitting saddle...she'd do anything to work incorrectly from remembered pain and lack of correct muscles made it also v difficult for her. she would also would not accept a contact and would do the same head movements as yours.

i sorted it with eliminating her pain (physio & M2M saddles) then getting a good RI who changed her bit to a straight bar fleximouth (we found out she hated movement in her bits - i'd tried the ones you'd mentioned but she was still not happy and i didn't know where to go from ther e- good old RI suggested the change in our first lesson :D) then worked on getting her long and low to build up corrcet muscles - along with lunging to help her find her balance etc - then we gradually advanced her outline to be more collected and uphill.
 
when you say a straight bar do you mean a mullen mouthpiece I think i tried one of these but cant remember how she went in it.
 
It may be that the horse has got into the habit of taking the michael and if so you will need some experienced help to sort it. Just continuing will only reinforce the bad habits. I notice that both dressage tests were only walk and trot and it may be that at the moment you don't have the necessary skills to re-educate the horse. Yes lessons are expensive but they may be the cheapest option in the long run or try and get someone experienced to ride the horse every now and then?
 
ldlp111 said:
when you say a straight bar do you mean a mullen mouthpiece I think i tried one of these but cant remember how she went in it.
Click to expand...

it was a fleximouth eggbutt - she doesn't like any movement so a loose ring or any joints was a no-no... metal would have been too strong.. it was slightly large for her mouth conformation but you can't get them thinner - have recently moved to a metal mullen eggbutt for all work apart from shows - where she goe in a slightly ported show pelham (i'd not try a double with her - i just think she'd be really unhappy in one from knowing her ;))

but it was more than just the change in bit - it took a RI to get me to ride her well too - for too long i'd given her excuses and let her away with things - ie ooh it could be her bac/teeth/saddle etc etc (even though i have them all checked about every 3 months due to her history :rolleyes:) that i'd forgotten how to ride positivly to "make" her listen rather than sit there giving a half arsed attempt then giving up in case she didn't want to - and of course being a canny 10yr old mare she took full advantage of that lol!
 
I think you're right posie_honey she is taking the p*ss because i'm a softie:rolleyes: i've been told she's very intelligent and will look at getting a instructor sorted so if anyone knows a good one that might be near me please pm me:)

thanks.
 
Ld, I think the thing is one very much leads to the other. Frank, though he often doesnt shout about it can get very stiff. The more and the better quality his flatwork is the fewer problems he gets with his back as he is working correctly. So I really do think you need someone to give you a hand otherwise all the money you are spending on treatments etc is never going to last. You might find once you have had some lessons with someone that they also teach someone who might like to share to bring the cost down a bit. Tbh even if you only see someone once a month and get ideas to take home and work on that would be good. Sorry I don't know anyone to recommend your way but good luck :)
 
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