Double dilute breeding restrictions

[Btomkins]

I’m not looking to breed but keep seeing double dilute stallions at stud on social media but with restrictions like no breedings to other double dilutes.

I’m curious as to the reason for this and can’t find much when googling?

 

[Equi]

Double dilutes can produce a foal with fatal/lethal white foal syndrome which as the name suggests is fatal. It’s caused by too much dilute in the genetics and can cause a vast array of issues, one being the digestive tract doesn’t form properly. Similar to breeding two white dogs, there is increased risk of deafness or blindness etc

 

[I'm Dun]

Double dilutes can produce a foal with fatal/lethal white foal syndrome which as the name suggests is fatal. It’s caused by too much dilute in the genetics and can cause a vast array of issues, one being the digestive tract doesn’t form properly. Similar to breeding two white dogs, there is increased risk of deafness or blindness etc

No they cant?! LWO is from breeding two horses with the colour pattern "frame overo" together that carry the gene. Although frame doesnt always express, so if you breed and there is a possibility of frame overo then you should test for it. Far more common in the US than then UK.

It is absolutely nothing to do with cream genes. Double dilutes dont have issues with deafness or blindness either, unless they also carry a white pattern, usually splash. But that isnt common either

 

[Jenko109]

I thought lethal white was double frame overo.

Now I'm confused ?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Which dilute gene are they specifically talking about?

I don't know of any from my memory that are fatal in their homozygous form. There is more than one pattern gene that is fatal when homozygous.

Some info here. https://www.animalgenetics.eu/Equine/Coat_Colour/Colour_Index.asp

 

[criso]

There are eye issues associated with homozygous Silver quite common in Rocky Mountain horses but I haven't heard of any associated with Cream.

 

[Equi]

My mistake then I got confused. Sorry!

 

[lannerch]

I thought the restriction of not accepting dilute mares was because you could breed potentially another double dilute stallion that could compete with the stud in the future and be so much more valuable.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

My mistake then I got confused. Sorry!

There are so many colour genes, it's easy to do.

 

[ester]

I think lannerch's suggestion is probably the right one. There's no medical reason not to do it.

 

[JJS]

I thought the restriction of not accepting dilute mares was because you could breed potentially another double dilute stallion that could compete with the stud in the future and be so much more valuable.

This is exactly why they do it. With a double dilute, you can guarantee their foals will have the cream gene, and lots of people are willing to pay a higher fee for a flashy-coloured youngster. It’s a way to keep a cap on future competitors and to stop the market from becoming over-saturated with what the stud owner offers.

 

[honetpot]

I have a double dilute, I also have had a couple of ponies who carry the dilute gene. All I can say is you see every blemish on their skin, he doesn't get sunburn, but if I wanted to sell him it would put people off because they would think they were sarcoids.

 

[isilme]

Im glad you asked this as i was wondering the same. I have a solid paint and wanted a barbie pony so have been looking at double dilute stallions.
My main worry has been quality! Dont gamble health, temperament and structure for pretty colours, there is a lot of crap out there, mind you also in other colours.
Im not a dd fan i like dark pigment and eyes just my taste but i do have my name down on a dd colt they are very valuable for a stud people dont want the soilds and mainly chestnuts but if i put my chestnuts to a dd i will make nice horses with the bonus of pretty colours. Pedigree wise he should in theory be a nice horse but if he doesn't i will geld him because there is no good horse of bad colour!

 

[Gallop_Away]

I've been wondering this. My mare is a section D palomino and I've toyed with the idea of breeding from her. I've seen a particularly beautiful section D stallion with everything I would be looking for to match with my mare in conformation, athleticism and temperament.....but he is a cremello and every advert for his stud services clearly states "not available to dilute mares" and I've always wondered why. Glad someone asked

 

[HashRouge]

I've found this thread really interesting, and actually had to go and look up all the possible colour combinations you could get from breeding dilutes/ double dilutes. So it sounds like some breeders won't accept any mare with a dilute gene, while some only limit double dilutes? My understanding is that the double dilutes would always produce cremello, perlino or smokey cream, depending on the particular combinations; whereas a double dilute x single dilute could still produce these colours, but also buckskin, palomino or smokey black. That's what my quick google suggested! So I can sort of understand breeders not accepting double dilute or even just dilute mares, so that they can limit the market on double dilute foals and keep the prices high. BUT I'm not sure I fully understand it from a business point of view. Would it not make sense to just charge more for dilute/ double dilute mares? It seems like you could make quite a lot of money from people aiming to breed for colour! I suppose it depends whether the stud feels it is making more money from selling the foals or from the stallion's stud fee?

 

[Snowfilly]

I know two breeders with double dilute stallions and they both openly say it’s to prevent double dilute colts that might stand in competition to theirs.

I also know one who shrugs and says if his stallion breeds a better colt, then his colt should be used instead which I think is a much healthier attitude!

I love double dilutes myself but never having one again for any job where it might need to look vaguely clean! So much bathing and washing, they’re as bad as greys.

 

[Nasicus]

I know two breeders with double dilute stallions and they both openly say it’s to prevent double dilute colts that might stand in competition to theirs.

I also know one who shrugs and says if his stallion breeds a better colt, then his colt should be used instead which I think is a much healthier attitude!

That's the difference between a breeder who cares about the quality of the animals, and a breeder who cares only for colour!