Double dosing Dormoseden Gel

[Maxidoodle]

Don’t want to do an enormous post but has anyone done a double dose of Dormoseden gel. Vet has said to double dose it for a very needle shy pony. We did a test with a single dose of Dormoseden for vaccinations last week and it didnt have anywhere near sufficient effect to be able to draw bloods.

Manufacturer datasheet says not to increase dosage and also says untested in Miniature horses. He’s a Falabella x Section A (an Accident many years ago at the breeder apparently. He’s 33yrs old, 30inches tall, no health issues and has a good zest for life. I’ve worked with him for 15yrs and I can do anything to him but the moment anyone else he thinks might be a vet tries, he is terrified and fights for his life (If I could do it, there’d be no issue!).

We are very realistic in that if he can’t be blood tested to enable him to come back to the UK, he will have to be PTS, as leaving him here isn’t an option.

 

[Gamebird]

Normally I'd say absolutely don't, especially in an old horse that probably hasn't had a good cardiac evaluation recently if he's that scared of vets. However if the alternative is PTS, then I can't see that you've got anything to lose, so long as you are aware of the risks and accept them.

 

[SEL]

On a Welsh Sec D - no ill effects (he must be around 500kg)

Could you twitch for the blood test?

 

[Maxidoodle]

Thanks guys, this is really helpful. As the alternative is to lose my lovely little lad, we have to accept the risks. Vet isn’t convinced anything else, stocks or twitch would keep him still enough. He literally fights for his life, vet said “F the manufacturers guidance” and genuinely doesn’t think there’s an alternative (she saw him a few weeks back for re-starting his vaccinations and saw just how terrified he is - we’ve had him on just tetanus vaccs, as he’s in a closed herd but with the prospect of travelling, he’s having his flu up to date. He’s the sweetest little lad ever and as the vet said “he’s a one person pony”.

 

[Love]

I did it years ago on my connie X arab who used to fight through even IV sedation to be clipped. Wasn't quite a double dose but was definitely higher than the "recomended". No ill effects (but also didn't have the desired effect until after the clippers had been put away - then he was zonked)

 

[Melody Grey]

I don’t know, but just wondering if you’ve tried leaving the Domosedan to work for long enough? I tried clipping one after 30 mins- not long enough, though left for 50+was practically on the floor. I’ve noticed it seems to take longer than you’d think to take.

 

[Maxidoodle]

I don’t know, but just wondering if you’ve tried leaving the Domosedan to work for long enough? I tried clipping one after 30 mins- not long enough, though left for 50+was practically on the floor. I’ve noticed it seems to take longer than you’d think to take.

it’s a good point, the vet called us to say give it to him now and it was 40mins before she arrived, he was in the barn with all his buddies he was very chilled and snoring, he was Pretty much back to normal at 1hr since having it.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Thanks guys, this is really helpful. As the alternative is to lose my lovely little lad, we have to accept the risks. Vet isn’t convinced anything else, stocks or twitch would keep him still enough. He literally fights for his life, vet said “F the manufacturers guidance” and genuinely doesn’t think there’s an alternative (she saw him a few weeks back for re-starting his vaccinations and saw just how terrified he is - we’ve had him on just tetanus vaccs, as he’s in a closed herd but with the prospect of travelling, he’s having his flu up to date. He’s the sweetest little lad ever and as the vet said “he’s a one person pony”.

Give it an hour before and keep the horse calm and quiet , so no clipping or farriers near by , children running around etc.
It will work then.
Often people don't leave enough time and don't provide a quiet enough environment for the horse to relax into it so their adrenaline kicks in and they fight the sedation instead.

 

[Melody Grey]

it’s a good point, the vet called us to say give it to him now and it was 40mins before she arrived, he was in the barn with all his buddies he was very chilled and snoring, he was Pretty much back to normal at 1hr since having it.

Have you got his weight accurate? Just wondering if you’ve weighed or are estimating? I can imagine it could be difficult to guess a pint size pony!

 

[SEL]

I don’t know, but just wondering if you’ve tried leaving the Domosedan to work for long enough? I tried clipping one after 30 mins- not long enough, though left for 50+was practically on the floor. I’ve noticed it seems to take longer than you’d think to take.

My Dales was snoring for 2 hours - I hadn't planned on it taking so long to wear off!

 

[Maxidoodle]

Give it an hour before and keep the horse calm and quiet , so no clipping or farriers near by , children running around etc.
It will work then.
Often people don't leave enough time and don't provide a quiet enough environment for the horse to relax into it so their adrenaline kicks in and they fight the sedation instead.

He had it in plenty of time before the vet came, he was in his stable and all our three others brought in, with him, lights in the barn all turned off and it was complete silence until the vet arrived 40mins later, he was out of it and snoring as we were stood getting things very quietly ready, vet was more than happy he was ready and by one hour, he was completely wide awake again.

 

[Maxidoodle]

Have you got his weight accurate? Just wondering if you’ve weighed or are estimating? I can imagine it could be difficult to guess a pint size pony!

Hi, yes as accurate as the weight tape is, the dosage rate was the same for a pony up to 40kgs heavier, so that would hopefully cover any weight tape discrepancy.

 

[Maxidoodle]

My Dales was snoring for 2 hours - I hadn't planned on it taking so long to wear off!

That’s really interesting, he was definitely well under the influence when the vet came, swaying, bottom lip hanging and snoring. I do wonder whether the adrenaline kicking in affected the length of time to wear off, as an hour he was back to completely normal.

 

[MuffettMischief]

Can your vet normally do vaccinations into muscle? My old pony was incredibly needle shy so if we ever needed to do any work that required sedation, my vet would sedate into the muscle. I think it’s a different one to the one they use IV but don’t quite me on that. She was very quick to do it so pony only noticed when it was already done, it takes a little longer to work but did the trick. Might be worth a try. Maybe twitch and then see if vet can inject into muscle super quick. I know many are against a twitch but if it’s blood tests or pts then worth a go

 

[Maxidoodle]

Can your vet normally do vaccinations into muscle? My old pony was incredibly needle shy so if we ever needed to do any work that required sedation, my vet would sedate into the muscle. I think it’s a different one to the one they use IV but don’t quite me on that. She was very quick to do it so pony only noticed when it was already done, it takes a little longer to work but did the trick. Might be worth a try. Maybe twitch and then see if vet can inject into muscle super quick. I know many are against a twitch but if it’s blood tests or pts then worth a go

Thanks for your reply, The vets struggle the minute they touch him, he won’t even allow them to rest a hand on him. She snapped the needle in his neck the time previously (as he struggled, so that certainly didn’t help. This time she told Me after she had used a larger needle to make sure it didn’t snap but she must have done him with some force, as he was left with a very raised, sore area immediately after. I didnt know about sedation into the muscle. I wonder if we could do Dormoseden and then top up with a sedation into the muscle, I’ll do some research. part of the issue is where we are located, we are pretty much in the back of beyond (and the country is not as advanced on many things), whilst the vets are from an equine hospital, I just get the distinct impression that they’re way behind UK vets, they initially told me that you couldn’t sedate for a blood test, so I emailed a large equine practice in the UK to ask and sent over their confirmation to my current vets, so that they would agree. Hence, trying to get as much info together myself.

I think I need to invest in a twitch also and find some videos to watch, having never used one before as I am against them but I think there is definitely seeming like a time and place, when it comes to something like this, where I definitely want to avoid the alternative. Does anyone know if a standard size twitch would work on a mini? I’m pretty sure I’ve seen them for sale here, so if I can buy one here, that would be helpful.

 

[Nasicus]

I didnt know about sedation into the muscle.

It can be done, we had to do it to a youngster I had in the past. She'd eaten some poisonous plants and needed to have her stomach pumped full of a paraffin to counter it, so needed sedating. At the time she'd not long come out of 3 months box rest for a leg wound which had meant 3 months of needles and vets and was NOT playing ball. Due to the situation demanding we sedate her, the vet basically 'punched' her in the rump with the needle/sedative. Not the most pleasant way to do it, but quick and it got the job done and meant we were able to then insert a tube through her nose into her stomach and hold her whilst the paraffin was pumped in.

 

[Maxidoodle]

It can be done, we had to do it to a youngster I had in the past. She'd eaten some poisonous plants and needed to have her stomach pumped full of a paraffin to counter it, so needed sedating. At the time she'd not long come out of 3 months box rest for a leg wound which had meant 3 months of needles and vets and was NOT playing ball. Due to the situation demanding we sedate her, the vet basically 'punched' her in the rump with the needle/sedative. Not the most pleasant way to do it, but quick and it got the job done and meant we were able to then insert a tube through her nose into her stomach and hold her whilst the paraffin was pumped in.

Thank you, really helpful to know. I’m struggling to find a metal twitch over here, they all seem to be rope twitches. I wonder if anyone knows of an equestrian store near to Hungerford that might stock them (I have someone who could bring me one over if I could send them to get one And a few other things I could really do with ).

 

[Lucky Snowball]

I have a similar horse and my vet darted him from a distance like a zoo animal would be.

 

[Gamebird]

Sedation into the muscle is useful in certain cases - I have used it this morning in aa difficult yearling. I use the same drugs as IV, but at a different dose rate. It's a commonly enough done thing so if your vets don't seem to be aware of it then suggest they find out - there are horse vet forums etc for advice. It can be a bit of an art getting the right dose, and you need patience - ideally a good 20 mins - before attempting anything further. There is also a combination which adds a 3rd drug to the mix which is known as 'magimix' (this is a widely used nickname, not an official term!) which can be even more effective.

If I remember rightly and your pony is small, then a metal twitch will be useless - they just fall off the noses of anything under about 12 hands. You need a rope twicth, and you can easily make one. A hoofpick and baler twine will do the job.

 

[Maxidoodle]

I have a similar horse and my vet darted him from a distance like a zoo animal would be.

I doubt we would find a suitable vet here to be able to do that but I’ve heard of that method being used very successfully.

 

[Maxidoodle]

Sedation into the muscle is useful in certain cases - I have used it this morning in aa difficult yearling. I use the same drugs as IV, but at a different dose rate. It's a commonly enough done thing so if your vets don't seem to be aware of it then suggest they find out - there are horse vet forums etc for advice. It can be a bit of an art getting the right dose, and you need patience - ideally a good 20 mins - before attempting anything further. There is also a combination which adds a 3rd drug to the mix which is known as 'magimix' (this is a widely used nickname, not an official term!) which can be even more effective.

If I remember rightly and your pony is small, then a metal twitch will be useless - they just fall off the noses of anything under about 12 hands. You need a rope twicth, and you can easily make one. A hoofpick and baler twine will do the job.

Thank you, this is really helpful. I think I will see if the vets have a senior vet, who I can really discuss everything with in advance and see what I can get agreement for.

yes, he is, I watched a video on You tube with an American vet and she used the straight bar section of the metal twitch on an Arab, as she said using the end would be pointless, as the Arab didn’t have sufficient lip. It would be a lot of metal to deal with, with a tiny pony, so yes, I may need to research more and get inventive. Thank you for your really helpful reply.