Double reins through a running martingale

Roasted Chestnuts

Roasted Chestnuts

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I thought that this was a NO-NO??

Watching Olympia and seeing this has really made me very sad. I was always told no running with double reins and if you did it went on the snaffle rein but I mean come on gags/pelhams with two reins the dragging the horses heads down with both through a martingale???

Doesnt anyone school these days??? No dig at people just my opinions, I know these horses can be strong, I have a horse who is VERY strong when jumping but I have went thorugh bits and cavessons to suit and now have a combo thatworks and isnt really that severe (Grackle and dr bristol nothing else) :(
 
NiknKia said:
I thought that this was a NO-NO??

Watching Olympia and seeing this has really made me very sad. I was always told no running with double reins and if you did it went on the snaffle rein but I mean come on gags/pelhams with two reins the dragging the horses heads down with both through a martingale???

Doesnt anyone school these days??? No dig at people just my opinions, I know these horses can be strong, I have a horse who is VERY strong when jumping but I have went thorugh bits and cavessons to suit and now have a combo thatworks and isnt really that severe (Grackle and dr bristol nothing else) :(
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How strange, you would have thought at that level they would know what they are doing but I too would use the snaffle rein if using a martingale and would never consider putting both reins through the martingale rings, I would have thought it would have interfered with the use of the curb rein tbh (but hey, what do I know!)
 
TBH I seriously doubt there is a horse jumping round olympia that hasn't been schooled. The one/2 reins through the martingale seems largely open to debate, it's certainly not rare to see. These horses in that atmosphere really are electric, and it's not just rosettes the riders are riding for, they can't afford to take unnecessary risks, no one can over those fences.
Fab that a Dr Bristol works for you- personally I would chose a gag or curb bit over one every time.
 
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MunchMincePies said:
Perhaps you should offer some training sessions to the international showjumpers?
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God i knew ther would be one :rolleyes:

I am showing how I dont like to see it not that I think i can do it better. Honestly people just look for a fight sometimes.

I have tried gags etc she just goes straight up in the air she feels trapped. She goes flatwork and everything else in a loosering fenchlink :) even fast canters on hacks and in company but a slight pull and she listens in the DrB for jumping, just how I like it :D

Nikki xx
 
I'm no professional rider, but I was always taught that you don't ever use a running martingale with double bridle, and on a gag with two reins it goes on the snaffle rein if you must use one... a standing martingale is acceptable when using two reins, but not if you're jumping.
 
It isnt 'correct' but its not really any different than using roundings on a pelham and a running martingale.

I used to do alot of competing before i had my little girl and got all whimpy over very big fences :o and TBH some of the fit horse and pretty mad, they have to be to do such big tracks and you use any combination that the horse is comfortable and happy in and helps them perform better.
 
I was taught that on double reins it was on the snaffle rein and not at all on a double bridle.
However, whatever they feel is best. :rolleyes: (Providing they are not in a 'bubble bit' :D)
 
I couldn't ride one side of any of those horses, don't know the horses either, so am not saying anything other than - if it works for them...
 
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David Broome used to jump Philco in a flash on a double bridle with the reins through the martingale.
Although not in the same league my little mare,when fit and strong, went in the same combination for a while before going back to the straight Happy Mouth
 
Llewellyn said:
I was taught that on double reins it was on the snaffle rein and not at all on a double bridle.
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Me too - however, I've put the runner on the bottom rein as that is the right action for it - its what I've taught and also practised too on rare occasions when required.

However, each to their own & riders at this level do (usually) know what they are doing & do it very well too :)
 
For technical correctness the martingale should be on the bridoon rein.

However it CAN increase the risk of the two becoming tangled, so it's safer when jumping to put the two reins through the martingale.

A curb rein through a martingale makes no sense alone, as the horse raising its head against the rider's hand may cause the curb to come into action, however the rein being pulled down through the martingale would effectively negate the leverage action and decrease the severity of the curb.

It therefore seems most likely that the horse works best in a double bridle, but may throw its head when jumping to try to take control back from the rider, and that the rider has chosen the martingale to act on the top rein to stop the breaking of the contact with the horse's mouth, whilst putting the curb rein through there also to reduce the risk of tangling.

Wild stab in the dark.

I'm sure he has chosen the combination for a reason. And I'm also sure he's probably schooled that horse once or twice, too ;)
 
I hunt my horse in a rubber pelham with 2 reins and I put the top rein through the martingale. The person who told me that has lots of experience with horses and rode to an international standard.
 
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Worked for me out hunting.

What's that old saying ? "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

I do see the point that people copy those in the limelight for whatever reason, some because of a lightbulb moment and it actually works for them, others just because they can, others because it's the current trend, or because the 'wheel' has been re-invented, that's the way of the world though.
 
I was taught running martingale on the curb rein by Pat Small FBHS and chirf examiner for many many years.

Hartly Edwards 'Saddlery' - The running martingale should be affixed in its logical place on the curb rein to assist the lowering action, Which is the the object of both the martingale & the curb bit. A martingale designed to lower the head put on the bridoon rein, which is used to raise the head, is an illogical contradiction.
 
fleabittengrey said:
Perhaps a standing martingale would be preferable with double reins then?


backs away slowly....sorry I couldn't resist!!
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Come Back - you have made a very good comment - I would far rather see that combination. It was at one time the general combination used on hunters.

Bridoon when they were behaving, curb when you couldn't stop and standing so you didn't get smacked in the head.

I hate running martingales with a passion and won't use them. When the horse puts its head up the action on the bit changes and forces the joint into the roof of the mouth.

I use a standing when I start mine off jumping - they sock themselves on the nose a few times and learn that its better to keep the head down. Once going well mine generally work in a snaffle and cavesson.
 
I saw that too at Olympia, infact I saw plenty of horses overbent, bucking, rearing clearly uncomfortable but, they had to be controlled in an arena full of kids - hate to think what could happen if a horse truly went berserk.

There are worse thing happenening to horses... at least they are not on a cramped trailer on the way to italy to be made into burgers or being beaten half to death in Pakistan.
 
Just because things were 'taught' years ago it does not mean it is always correct.

I think the pro show jumpers know better than 99.9% of the 'experts' on here and the most over bent horses I saw at Olympia were actually the dressage horses!!
 
It's very easy to stand ring side and criticise peoples choices of tack but the most intense schooling will not ensure you have control around a 1.70m course under lights with an atmosphere like Olympia. My bosses stallion is a Heartbraker, therefore fussy in the mouth, so he goes in a hackamore with a loose ring snaffle in his mouth for steering, with both reins through the martingale. However he schools to advanced medium at home, he's just excitable in the ring.

Competition at this level isn't your BHS/ Pony Club style of doing things. These horses are very tricky so you work with what they will allow, not what is written in a text book!
 
Evelyn said:
Hartly Edwards 'Saddlery' - The running martingale should be affixed in its logical place on the curb rein to assist the lowering action, Which is the the object of both the martingale & the curb bit. A martingale designed to lower the head put on the bridoon rein, which is used to raise the head, is an illogical contradiction.
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Yes, he told me that too, tried it, horse didn't like it;)
 
BoxingDayHunt said:
I'm no professional rider, but I was always taught that you don't ever use a running martingale with double bridle, and on a gag with two reins it goes on the snaffle rein if you must use one... a standing martingale is acceptable when using two reins, but not if you're jumping.
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Ditto this. I certainly can't do it better or at all for that matter!
 
So wait a minute people are saying just because you were tiaght it years ago doesnt make it right, well that certainly is true with the many people saying they are professionals so they know better than un mere mortals with pets then???

Its a debate not that we are saying we know better, everyone is entitled to an opinion and making smart comments like 'you go tell them then' is just silly.

I dont like that combo and I wouldnt use it on my horses, I dont use martingales ahtough some people would say i should, I am not going to get upset by it or think I know better its just my choice but I dont mind people questioning at all :)

Nikki :D
 
Well I neither saw this particular horse and rider, nor would I choose that combination personally, but surely if the horse goes well in it and it's safe it doesn't matter what who was taught what however long ago... ?

Just IMHO

IMO, what's far worse is people who tie horses (especially youngsters) up in be- nices...

TAXI!!!!!!
 
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