Downunder Horsmanship - Clinton Anderson - OMG

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acolvine

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Ok, i know i am probably setting myself up here for criticism as im sure there are many fans out there of this 'Clinton Anderson' but having watched Part 7 of his series on Rural TV i was shocked, stunned and amazed that anyone would listen to a word he says.

Its not a program i have watched before (or will be again...), nothing else on tv last night so tuned in for an episode.

The Scene - tb gelding that had come off the track and had two years rest due to a fetlock injury (fracture of some description).
This was its second 'training/eduacation' session...

For starters anyone who uses a 'wand' and suggests 'whacking or karate chopping' with it shouldn't be near a horse.
From the floor he was making the poor thing (who looked petrified of him and the wand) side step/yield in front then behind all the way round an arena and back for about 10 mins whilst 'whacking' with the wand if it didn't move. Then wondered why it didn't understand it could stand still as he started to rub the wand over it. Then proceed to 'whack' (his words) it again.

The horse had a worried look in its eye the whole time and it was a lovely amenable horse. There was just no need. The movements he was putting the horse through would have just loaded pressure onto the fetlocks and not aided in any sort of rehab.

The best is yet to come..........he then gets on to ride the horse and he states that this is the horses second ridden session.
At this point you aren't aware that the horse is carrying an old injury, they definitely saved the best for last!

He begins by asking the horse to flex his head/neck from left to right, horses nose to riders leg. Fine...............but he then starts jabbing the poor thing in the mouth, it looke really sore. He does this continually for a good few minutes.
Then....starts the trot and the canter ( i refer back to the point that the horse is coming back into work after a fetlock fracture) aside from the fact that it was a race horse so unlikely to have ever had any other schooling. The poor thing was knackered, no wonder it started to slow up at the end.

This Clinton actually recommends that owners take their horses out for a ride and do not come back until the horses saddle pad is dripping wet!!!

It was then end that made me feel irate but so upset at the same time. There Clinton is with the lovely TB standing next to him. The horse was lame and could not continue any 'training', they actually make an appeal for a companion home. He has the cheek to say they tried to retrain it but it didn't work, 'they gave it their best shot'!!!!! They broke the horse!!!

Obviously i don't know the full background to this TB but the program certainly tries to make out like these are the first training sessions the horse has had since finishing up as a racehorse.
Is it really educational to tell people that 'horses shouldn't enjoy their work', 'work them til they look like they will have a heart attack' and then demonstrate yanking the horses mouth til it is 'soft'? With this in mind i felt deeply saddened for the poor TB and any other horse he works with.

Could they not have taken their time to work with the horse from the floor (and i don't mean with the wand) to build up its musculoskeletal system just with long reining, lunging (using long sides). Gradually built up its stamina by increasing work load 5 - 10 mins a week then progress to ridden work and re-eduacting the horse slowly.

Sorry this has turned into a rant, not really my thing but i was honestly so upset watching that program and to think people buy his dvds and do what he says. It may work for some and its each to their own.
If you have sky plus and want to tune in for yourself to see what im talking about it is on Rural TV tonight (tomorrow morning) at 4.30am.
Rural TV have an e-mail address for comments regarding the content they show on their channel, i for one will be writing to them and complaining.
 
I completely agree with everything you have said. The poor horse (whose sides are heaving) looks petrified. I cannot for the life of me see any point in what he is trying to achieve anyway.
 
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I don't think that I have seen this particular episode, I did make it about halfway through one of his shows though before turning off in disgust.

I thought he was appalling.
 
I thought he was darn right terrible too - just as bad as those god awful monty roberts drivel shows - it's too scary for words!!!!
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Yep, I agree, don't like his approach at all. Hopefully people will realise that there are a lot better "NH" type trainers than him.
 
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I thought he was darn right terrible too - just as bad as those god awful monty roberts drivel shows - it's too scary for words!!!!
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But at least monty roberts doesn't break the horses lol that guy is definately worse.
 
QR- having seen 5mins of "part 5" where he was "de-sensitizing" the horse to the whip and then half of part 7 where he wanted the horse to 1) move away from the stick and 2) stand still when rubbed with said stick his "training" seems to be a list of inconsistancies and the horse is punished for not being a mind reader.

He reckoned "lope them and lope them till they are going to have a heart attack and then lope them some more", "They should be wanting every stride to be their last", how is this horsemanship!?

Apparently to get a horse to move forward it's "squeeze, cluck and whack", progressing to "whack" as soon as possible if what I seen is anything to go by. But then when horse is moving forward to shut it down asap with a one rein halt, followed up with jabs in the mouth. What is that teaching the poor animal, other than making it a scared mess?

I appreciate the sentiment of the lateral flexion and "softening" of the horse, when I worked on a cattle station this was something that was done before mounting and as soon as you got on BUT it was done gently and the horse was released as soon as it tried. There is most definitely nothing to be gained from pulling the horse around and yanking it in the mouth. Especially given this is the horse's second ridden session, it's an OTT TB who I'd imagine could benefit from some sort of physio type thing.

I didn't see any "horsemanship". All I seen was someone getting off on the power they were exerting over a defenceless animal and nothing more than out right cruelty. What worries me even more is this is what was broadcast, what happens when the cameras aren't rolling? I'm pretty sure this guy has been mentioned on Fugly Horse in her black list of trainers....

No point just moaning about this on a forum. Rural TV who broadcast his "educational" shows can be contacted here http://www.ruraltv.tv/contact.php
 
No point in "moaning" about him to anyone I think, he's a very popular trainer, strange though it may seem.
 
Ive written to Rural TV about him, its meant to be an informative/educational channel. How they can conclude his training methods as educational is beyond me.

The more folk that contact Rural TV the better the chance of getting the show from being taken off air.

I think actions will speak louder than words than in this case.
 
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No point in "moaning" about him to anyone I think, he's a very popular trainer, strange though it may seem.

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moaning was wrong choice of word but you know what I mean.

I'm very aware of how popular he is. He's massive in America and is in all the western riding magazines with regular columns. But then so was Cleve Wells... Although not similar cases, that I know of, it shows that if enough people take action, instead of just "moaning" amongst themselves, then things do happen re Big Name Trainers.

That applies to all walks of lives, not just seeing something you don't like on TV.
 
I am a very big fan of his and love his methods. It's not a whip he is using, that is something English people use to whip there horses around a menage in the name of Lunging.

Actually I know people do not whip their horses around a menage in the name of Lunging but that is exactly how arrogant and ignorant you sound when you accuse him of whiping a horse to get sideways movement.

What is soooo wrong with getting a horse yielding to pressure????

Just for the record I love Parelli, Craig Cameron, Kelly Marks, Monty Roberts, Troy Henry etc. They have all achieved great things with horses. They can't ALL be evil, cruel Idiots can they?? OH well hey ho.
 
I managed one episode and saw him tie a horse in the sun with no water for an hour to 'think things over' after he had been worked. He makes me so angry I start to shout at the telly so OH has banned me from watching any more!
 
I haven't seen the particular episode you have mentioned, and I don't like the sound of it, but the stuff on youtube I have watched of his I have enjoyed.
 
Not seen him at work so cant comment. I do think though uncomfortable viewing is not in any horsemans/womens favour.
 
We all shout and rave about all this nh **** so stop watching it, anybody with common sense knows it's all **** and there to take in the gullable.
I watched a video on you tube off a so called good nh person who tied a horses leg up and rode it like it to stop it bucking, disgusting but these people will always have followers but crist knows why.
 
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Quote (What is soooo wrong with getting a horse yielding to pressure???? )

It's the way that a horse is asked to yield to pressure that upsets people. There are sensitive, kind ways of doing this, and as someone who uses pressure work I agree that sometimes people misread what is happening (but there is no excuse for hitting horses with sticks etc to make that movement away from pressure happen- that isn't training, it's abuse), but this case sounds disgusting and Anderson should have taken extra care with the poor horse who needs rehabing properly after such an injury.

Just for the record I love Parelli, Craig Cameron, Kelly Marks, Monty Roberts, Troy Henry etc. They have all achieved great things with horses. They can't ALL be evil, cruel Idiots can they?? OH well hey ho.[/QUOTE]

Kelly Marks does some good work.
 
Did anyone see an episode of this guy's programme a few months ago, where he was supposedly working with a horse that was very hectic when getting off a trailer? I was speechless. The trailer was an American type - the sort with no ramp, where they step off the vehicle, sometimes backwards. The owner had had problems with the horse rushing at speed out of the trailer as soon as he untied her. CA got in the trailer with her, was in there for a while, and then suddenly she came violently back out of the trailer, and her back legs slipped underneath it, so she kind of half fell, half sat down with her legs under the trailer. She got herself up, and CA decided they would carry on with the work even tho she had injured herself - he actualy says this on camera. I was so horrified I showed this to my OH (non horsey) who was also shocked.
So is no one complaining about him in the States?

Can anyine tell me how to do those signature bars you all have?
 
I saw a couple of his shows some time ago and was appalled to be honest and not bothered since, think he was backing a youngster or retraining a racehorse, I can't remember now, was quite surprised so many people are fans and thought I must be missing something!
 
padderpaws said:
I am a very big fan of his and love his methods. It's not a whip he is using, that is something English people use to whip there horses around a menage in the name of Lunging.

Actually I know people do not whip their horses around a menage in the name of Lunging but that is exactly how arrogant and ignorant you sound when you accuse him of whiping a horse to get sideways movement.

What is soooo wrong with getting a horse yielding to pressure????

Just for the record I love Parelli, Craig Cameron, Kelly Marks, Monty Roberts, Troy Henry etc. They have all achieved great things with horses. They can't ALL be evil, cruel Idiots can they?? OH well hey ho.
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I too am a fan of Clinton Anderson; from reading these posts I can see there is a lot of misinformation regarding him and his Method on this forum. It's sad to see him being so quickly judged without the knowledge behind one's judgement. He has great ideas and a is a very talented horseman
 
Reno22 said:
I too am a fan of Clinton Anderson; from reading these posts I can see there is a lot of misinformation regarding him and his Method on this forum. It's sad to see him being so quickly judged without the knowledge behind one's judgement. He has great ideas and a is a very talented horseman
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So you agree with his 'training' methods do you?

Personally, I want to have a partnership with my horse and want her to enjoy every step she takes when i'm onboard, not "wish it were her last" :mad:
 
mollichop said:
So you agree with his 'training' methods do you?

Personally, I want to have a partnership with my horse and want her to enjoy every step she takes when i'm onboard, not "wish it were her last" :mad:
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I think the people that agree with CA fail to understand exactly what he is doing and the long term effect it might have on a horse.
 
In response to the last few posts, I am more than happy to accept all sorts of different types of horsemanship - in the main, I think they succeed because at the heart of all of them is the need to spend quality time with your horse. However, I do think that it is possible to make a judgement about a 'trainer' when you see a video, as I mentioned, in which a horse is actally injured, and the 'training' continues at the request of the 'trainer'. Do we need to know anything else at this point?
 
jojo5 said:
Did anyone see an episode of this guy's programme a few months ago, where he was supposedly working with a horse that was very hectic when getting off a trailer? I was speechless. The trailer was an American type - the sort with no ramp, where they step off the vehicle, sometimes backwards. The owner had had problems with the horse rushing at speed out of the trailer as soon as he untied her. CA got in the trailer with her, was in there for a while, and then suddenly she came violently back out of the trailer, and her back legs slipped underneath it, so she kind of half fell, half sat down with her legs under the trailer. She got herself up, and CA decided they would carry on with the work even tho she had injured herself - he actualy says this on camera. I was so horrified I showed this to my OH (non horsey) who was also shocked.
So is no one complaining about him in the States?

Can anyine tell me how to do those signature bars you all have?
Click to expand...

Saw that episode tonight and couldnt stop watching it for horror!! Poor little mare was worked so hard outside the trailer so that she would like to be in the trailer - even tho this then meant she was scared to leave it!!!?? Whats wrong with some nice praise and a handful of nuts?!!!! GRRR trying to contain rant!
 
Can you find it on you tube? its sounds dreadful!

But I am in agreement with you, I have watched a few parts on Rural TV and its disgraceful, shouldn't be allowed on there.
 
I watched a snippet of an episode a few days ago and saw Clint stood chatting holding a palamino mare who was breathing quite heavily and her nostrils were flaring. This was before he had even started doing anything with her. Didnt seem right.
 
The trailer was an American type - the sort with no ramp, where they step off the vehicle, sometimes backwards. The owner had had problems with the horse rushing at speed out of the trailer as soon as he untied her. CA got in the trailer with her, was in there for a while, and then suddenly she came violently back out of the trailer, and her back legs slipped underneath it, so she kind of half fell, half sat down with her legs under the trailer.
Click to expand...

I also saw this and was also horrified. My Dad (non horsey) asked why they didn't get a 'proper' trailer ie, a british one with a forward ramp for unloading. He couldn't understand why they only opened one of the rear doors and had the horse stepping out of the trailer down a step which was in the horse's blind spot, she couldn't see where the hell she was going!

I had no answer.
 
I am really rather shocked that people can stick up for a man like that, yes we all have bad bits, know one is perfect but you do not hit your horse on the back hard until it moves away, you do not hit a horse in the face with a thick rope just to get him to back away.
 
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