Dr riders - crest sliding or crest flipping?

kerilli

kerilli

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 April 2002
Messages
27,417
Location
Lovely Northamptonshire again!
Visit site
Does anyone else work on this? My trainer's very hot on it, and I was working on it today with Ellie (who finds it very easy and is a total girly swot about it) but it occurred to me that i've never had a British trainer mention it. Does yours?
 
Fascinating link, thanks. I'm fairly sure that G doesn't do that at the moment as contact and relaxation is his weakest area but it would be interesting to know what I'm working towards as we continue to progress.
 
My trainer is really hot on it too, and no I had never heard of it before she taught me either!
 
Hmm, this sounds intriguing. I'm fairly sure I've seen it, but not understood it (certainly never been taught it) - can anyone explain how you go about achieving it? 'You can do it from the ground' doesn't really help with 'how'! I am curious now...
 
Many years ago I briefly had lessons with a german trainer who was very hot on this. My boy struggled to engage and was pretty tense so I never got it. Her horse's crest flipped so dramatically it made me wince the first time I saw it but bloody hell he was a dream to ride.

Since then I've never heard it from any of my many british trainers (I've moved areas I'm not a serial trainer haver ;) ) until this thread. Maybe something to think about again.
 
I think that videos pretty poor, the bend of neck should be less and the flick of crest much more defined, I couldnt really see a proper flip there tbh. You should be able to literally lift one hand a mm and the crest very markedly flick that way with hardly any movement of neck and head and vice versa with the other rein.
 
Vizslak said:
I think that videos pretty poor, the bend of neck should be less and the flick of crest much more defined, I couldnt really see a proper flip there tbh. You should be able to literally lift one hand a mm and the crest very markedly flick that way with hardly any movement of neck and head and vice versa with the other rein.
Click to expand...

it was the only one that came up on google ;)
 
Years ago in lessons with Patrick Print - so very British. Sienna used to do it beautifully, Had completely forgotten about it tho.
 
Yea just had a google myself, no decent crest flipping videos in sight! I'm not seeing my boy until next weekend so I cant video his crest flip at the moment, its extremely marked and easy for people to understand when they have seen it!
 
Never heard of it before... kind of get the gist of what it is from the video but can I ask what's the purpose (ie does it help supple or is it proof that the horse is supple) and how do you ask for it?
 
Yes I've been taught it, my old trainer (British, Hannah Moody if anyone wants to know..) did it with my old pony, to show that he was completely soft and relaxed, it was great to show me he was connected, helped me and my pony a lot!
 
Both really, my trainer likes it used as part of warm up as it is beneficial in releasing neck but also yes it proves suppleness and true bend. It also helps the rider understand the true bend and just how subtle it is. If you come to a nice halt with your horse engaged and straight in a nice even light contact. You should in an ideal world be able to slightly lift one hand up and cause the crest to flick over. You may need to apply a bit of leg if the horse is resistant or holding itself somewhere, most horses will find one way easier than the other, some can do both with no effort and others will really struggle to get a flick at all due to being tense and holding themselves somewhere. Hope that helps, its very easy to demonstrate and not so easy to explain!
In the video though there is far too much neck movement, thats not what you are looking for at all. The head and neck should barely move.
 
umm, i'm not the expert at all, but i'll start. there's some really good stuff on that thread, btw, by more experienced people than me, i reckon!
first as a test, because if the horse is blocking at all at jaw or poll then it won't happen. then as a way to influence the positioning of the neck, i think.
when it's really good the whole top of the length of the neck from poll to withers will flip-flop, otherwise just the top part.
my trainer says i should be able to do it all the time in all paces, that it shows true flexion etc.
i ask for it a little with the hands at first, and sort-of by positioning the shoulders a little, hard to explain. i can't do it just on the seat as is described in that thread, will have to keep working on it!
 
Vizslak said:
Both really, my trainer likes it used as part of warm up as it is beneficial in releasing neck but also yes it proves suppleness and true bend. It also helps the rider understand the true bend and just how subtle it is. If you come to a nice halt with your horse engaged and straight in a nice even light contact. You should in an ideal world be able to slightly lift one hand up and cause the crest to flick over. You may need to apply a bit of leg if the horse is resistant or holding itself somewhere, most horses will find one way easier than the other, some can do both with no effort and others will really struggle to get a flick at all due to being tense and holding themselves somewhere. Hope that helps, its very easy to demonstrate and not so easy to explain!
In the video though there is far too much neck movement, thats not what you are looking for at all. The head and neck should barely move.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. :)
 
Thanks, sort of makes sense to me now... so on a supple correctly schooled horse you'd expect to see the crest flip every time you change bend? I asked the question before I read the thread K, was a fascinating read. It's the little things like that which really fascinate me about dressage.

There was a point raised in the thread about not being able to have the neck in "neutral" so how do you manage on a straight line ie when riding a centre line, if you've turned say right onto the centre line do you keep the right flip and then flip it left when you change bend to turn the other way at the end? And on those horses which are too stiff to do a crest flip does it mean they're permanently flipped one way potentially opposite to that of the body or is the change so slight in this instance that it would not be apparent.
 
Vizslak said:
Both really, my trainer likes it used as part of warm up as it is beneficial in releasing neck but also yes it proves suppleness and true bend. It also helps the rider understand the true bend and just how subtle it is. If you come to a nice halt with your horse engaged and straight in a nice even light contact. You should in an ideal world be able to slightly lift one hand up and cause the crest to flick over. You may need to apply a bit of leg if the horse is resistant or holding itself somewhere, most horses will find one way easier than the other, some can do both with no effort and others will really struggle to get a flick at all due to being tense and holding themselves somewhere. Hope that helps, its very easy to demonstrate and not so easy to explain!
In the video though there is far too much neck movement, thats not what you are looking for at all. The head and neck should barely move.
Click to expand...

Agree with this! It will also demonstrate to you your horse's true bend as in how well he/she can flex one way or the other. There should be very little bend in the horse's neck when asking for crest flips, perhaps just see white of eye. The actual crest flip itself is very obvious when it happens so be patient!
 
umm, i'll try to answer.
yes, i think so. ditto, fascinating. there's some great stuff on that thread about the German cf the French way of using your wrists or your fingers too, v interesting.
i've always been told that even on a straight line you should have the slightest hint of inside bend (even down the long side, a tiny idea of inside bend, or across the diag, a little of the bend you came round the corner with, changing to the other bend at some point) and if so then the neck is never in neutral... but if the neck is perfectly straight then surely the nuchal ligament should just balance perfectly in the middle?!
on a stiff horse i suspect it just stays to whichever side they feel comfiest on, not sure really... because you can't see it move at all if the neck isn't soft and the jaw and poll aren't relaxed. will await other answers with interest!
 
MegaBeast said:
Thanks, sort of makes sense to me now... so on a supple correctly schooled horse you'd expect to see the crest flip every time you change bend? I asked the question before I read the thread K, was a fascinating read. It's the little things like that which really fascinate me about dressage.

There was a point raised in the thread about not being able to have the neck in "neutral" so how do you manage on a straight line ie when riding a centre line, if you've turned say right onto the centre line do you keep the right flip and then flip it left when you change bend to turn the other way at the end? And on those horses which are too stiff to do a crest flip does it mean they're permanently flipped one way potentially opposite to that of the body or is the change so slight in this instance that it would not be apparent.
Click to expand...

When you change the bend correctly the flip happens by itself, you don't 'do' it, on the centre line, as you change direction at the end the neck flip happens as you change the bend as long as the horse is soft and supple.

Horses that are too stiff and rigid and that have no suppleness will have no flip either way usually, that's the whole point they have no suppleness through the wither,neck,poll, so these horses need lots of work on suppling and loosening.
 
Would be fascinating to see this done on those horses they use for demos which have all the muscles/ligaments painted on to them, only ever seen photographs but would love to see it for real.

Going to have a look out for crest flipping tomorrow, something to aim for and measure progress by it seems. Vizslak, am looking forward to you getting a video of your boys crest flip so can see for real what it should be.
 
MegaBeast said:
Would be fascinating to see this done on those horses they use for demos which have all the muscles/ligaments painted on to them, only ever seen photographs but would love to see it for real.

Going to have a look out for crest flipping tomorrow, something to aim for and measure progress by it seems. Vizslak, am looking forward to you getting a video of your boys crest flip so can see for real what it should be.
Click to expand...

Megabest - have a play with your horse, it's very obvious when crest flip happens. They often do it far more obviously one way than the other, + aim would be to level them up. Report back!!
 
Rouletterose said:
When you change the bend correctly the flip happens by itself, you don't 'do' it, on the centre line, as you change direction at the end the neck flip happens as you change the bend as long as the horse is soft and supple.

Horses that are too stiff and rigid and that have no suppleness will have no flip either way usually, that's the whole point they have no suppleness through the wither,neck,poll, so these horses need lots of work on suppling and loosening.
Click to expand...

That makes sense, so basically on the centre line the nexk stays flipped the way it was from your turn until you change bend so you don't go down the line with it in "neutral" as I gather that's not possible... or does it flip, then straighten on the line then flip the other way as you change bend on the turn, straighten for the line then change bend the other way. Getting my brain tied in a bit of a knot! Need someone with a helmet cam so can see what happens.
 
MegaBeast said:
That makes sense, so basically on the centre line the nexk stays flipped the way it was from your turn until you change bend so you don't go down the line with it in "neutral" as I gather that's not possible... or does it flip, then straighten on the line then flip the other way as you change bend on the turn, straighten for the line then change bend the other way. Getting my brain tied in a bit of a knot! Need someone with a helmet cam so can see what happens.
Click to expand...

Good question and when you actually have to really think about it, it's hard, but I do think I have a certain "neutral" moment with my mare, say I'm turning right onto the centre line, the neck flips and then I touch outside rein, I would say at that point I have a neutral/straight neck until the end and I say turn left and the neck/crest will flip to the left, then as I say go up the long side I have straightness. This has really got me thinking....I'll have to check when I ride tomorrow, it's so automatic you don't think about it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top