Drag Hunting / Team Chasing Bit

[bayofakind]

I'm desperate for some bitting advice for my pocket rocket - I feel like we've tried most bits under the sun!

He's a good boy at home, schooling, show jumping and hacking on his own and in groups. I can do everything on the flat in a Single jointed eggbutt (has quite a high palette) but use a loose ring waterford for jumping or group hacking (It's the waterford mouthpiece that helps as sometimes he can be slightly stronger round a course or cantering out in small groups but nothing unmanageable).
He did his first full season hunting last year - the waterford snaffle wasn't enough so used a rubber pelham with roundings. This worked really well but he was marking from the curb chain. We went on a hound exercise in it this season and I might as well have taken him in a headcollar!
Since then we've tried a two ring danger bit and he's currently in a tom thumb - we're getting into huge fights over the speed he wants to travel at (anyone would think he's an exracer!). He throws his head around like there's no tomorrow and it's getting rather dangerous.
The tom thumb isn't stopping him or slowing him down, we're just getting into a half halt/pulling match. He's resorted to locking his neck to the side and running through whatever I do, it's almost getting dangerous mostly when we're going up to rails.

We're similar team chasing, although he's turned into a lead horse and I just need something that I can check him in a few strides before a rail so that he's not going flat out at them. We could have a nice canter or gallop, but he throws his head up about 5 strides out and pelts it at the fence.

Any recommendations?

I would just like something that he will respect but won't cause damage - he's a sensitive one.

 

[dixie]

Have you tried a Myler combination bit?

Or maybe a different noseband such as a Kineton.

 

[ycbm]

The most effective bit for controlling my front runner, hard pulling hunter was a Mikmar. It looks like an instrument of torture, but actually it's a pretty kind mouthpiece and distributes pressure in various places on the face, depending how you set it up.

 

[SilverLinings]

Bit of a left-of-field suggestion, but many years ago I had a similar horse who found jumping and hunting VERY exciting. He was always forward going but once he'd locked on to a fence there was nothing I could do to stop or steer. Unlike yours he could also be strong at other times (e.g. SJ schooling or group cantering on hacks) but always could be stopped. I ran through every bitting option (and had teeth etc checked), limited a bit by his having a low roof of mouth and he hated single-jointed bits. Day-to-day he was happiest in either a waterford or a straight bar pelham (with a tongue groove not port), but they didn't work cross-country. The waterford also didn't work the day he decided to bolt - apparently for fun - down an A road until stopped by a kind and quick thinking lorry driver manoeuvring to block the road (and nearly made a one way trip to the vets as a result)*.

Eventually I ditched bits completely and tried a continental hackamore. He was much better in the hackamore and I used it for everything for about 6-8 months. After that I went back to bits for competing and for hunting and he respected them far more. I don't know if the hackamore was effective because it caused a 'break' in his pattern of behaviour, or because his mouth became softer after not using a bit for months, but it worked. I am light weight, not strong and hate having to pull against a horse, and the hackamore sorted his issue out without him loosing enthusiasm for the job or me having to use force.

I empathise with you @bayofakind, and hope you find something that works soon. There may be a point that the horse needs to take a break from hunting etc if he is getting dangerous though, they don't think about the rider so you need to make sure you take care of your safety.

*I was young and foolish so didn't give up at this point despite being terrified, but in the end the horse turned out to be my horse of a lifetime.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Have you tried PeeWee bit? I got one when my Clydesdale took off with me in a panic and then lent it to a friend who needed more control eventing. Both horses went well in it and I also used it with IDx who went well in it. My 2 both had low palettes and tbh, I don't know/can't remember about the eventer's confo

 

[bayofakind]

Have you tried a Myler combination bit?

Or maybe a different noseband such as a Kineton.

I haven't but would like to - they're just so expensive to buy if it doesn't work out! Unfortunately I don't know anyone that would have one that I could borrow :/

 

[bayofakind]

The most effective bit for controlling my front runner, hard pulling hunter was a Mikmar. It looks like an instrument of torture, but actually it's a pretty kind mouthpiece and distributes pressure in various places on the face, depending how you set it up.

You're right, it does look like an instrument of torture haha! However, I will do some research!

 

[bayofakind]

Bit of a left-of-field suggestion, but many years ago I had a similar horse who found jumping and hunting VERY exciting. He was always forward going but once he'd locked on to a fence there was nothing I could do to stop or steer. Unlike yours he could also be strong at other times (e.g. SJ schooling or group cantering on hacks) but always could be stopped. I ran through every bitting option (and had teeth etc checked), limited a bit by his having a low roof of mouth and he hated single-jointed bits. Day-to-day he was happiest in either a waterford or a straight bar pelham (with a tongue groove not port), but they didn't work cross-country. The waterford also didn't work the day he decided to bolt - apparently for fun - down an A road until stopped by a kind and quick thinking lorry driver manoeuvring to block the road (and nearly made a one way trip to the vets as a result)*.

Eventually I ditched bits completely and tried a continental hackamore. He was much better in the hackamore and I used it for everything for about 6-8 months. After that I went back to bits for competing and for hunting and he respected them far more. I don't know if the hackamore was effective because it caused a 'break' in his pattern of behaviour, or because his mouth became softer after not using a bit for months, but it worked. I am light weight, not strong and hate having to pull against a horse, and the hackamore sorted his issue out without him loosing enthusiasm for the job or me having to use force.

I empathise with you @bayofakind, and hope you find something that works soon. There may be a point that the horse needs to take a break from hunting etc if he is getting dangerous though, they don't think about the rider so you need to make sure you take care of your safety.

*I was young and foolish so didn't give up at this point despite being terrified, but in the end the horse turned out to be my horse of a lifetime.

I have actually considered trying just an English hackamore! Although I don't know whether I'd brave it out hunting.

I have actually contacted several bitting specialists, however the response I got was that whatever bit they recommend during a consultation may not work anyway as we can't replicate the scenario and he's different at home.

 

[bayofakind]

Have you tried PeeWee bit? I got one when my Clydesdale took off with me in a panic and then lent it to a friend who needed more control eventing. Both horses went well in it and I also used it with IDx who went well in it. My 2 both had low palettes and tbh, I don't know/can't remember about the eventer's confo

No I haven't, but I've looked briefly into it and I'll be honest (and please feel free to educate me), I don't quite understand the concept/mechanics of it or see how it would have the desired effect!

 

[Clodagh]

I hunted in a Waterford 3 ring gag in a kineton noseband. I’m sure someone will tell me they all work differently but I could ride her with a finger.
Or she went well in a double bridle?

 

[Gloi]

Have you tried a Myler combination bit?

Or maybe a different noseband such as a Kineton.

A kineton noseband was the answer for mine

 

[P.forpony]

Definitely throwing my agreement behind the Kineton, or a Worcester, similar sort of arrangement.

Also with the head throwing I had a similar type some years ago... I had broken noses and my two front teeth aren't actually mine because of this darling creature!

Obviously ruled out all the usual nasty suspects so confirmed that it was just her being a drama queen in her jumping enthusiasm.

But it really was getting dangerous so I put her in a standing martingale with a padded noseband.
Once she realised that she was the only one fighting with herself, and the violent head chucking got her nose and not mine she stopped almost overnight. I think she wore it for 3 rides before we took it off and didn't need it again.

 

[bayofakind]

Definitely throwing my agreement behind the Kineton, or a Worcester, similar sort of arrangement.

Also with the head throwing I had a similar type some years ago... I had broken noses and my two front teeth aren't actually mine because of this darling creature!

Obviously ruled out all the usual nasty suspects so confirmed that it was just her being a drama queen in her jumping enthusiasm.

But it really was getting dangerous so I put her in a standing martingale with a padded noseband.
Once she realised that she was the only one fighting with herself, and the violent head chucking got her nose and not mine she stopped almost overnight. I think she wore it for 3 rides before we took it off and didn't need it again.

This is really interesting! Did you jump in the standing martingale? There's so much controversy about jumping in one and I'd be a bit worried it would affect balance/ saving himself etc, especially over the larger or drop hedges?

Interesting point about the kineton noseband!

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I threw on a Market Harborough in desperation, horse was already in a waterford....
I spent 2 meets non jumping, horse could only lean on himself, did the job for me.
Unclipped the MH on the 3rd meet on 2nd line (popped the clips together on neck) and we had some fabulous jumping, with brakes. He stayed v keen but better brakes thereafter.

 

[Northern Hare]

My horse would yank on the bit only in company on fast'ish rides. A vulcanite pelham worked well, and the other was a loose ring cherry roller which he came with, and which also worked well.

Also you mention that the curb chain on the Pelham marked your horse - my horse was the same but I found that a Prolite curb chain guard worked really well. It didn't seem to stop the effectiveness but it stopped any marking.

 

[Ratface]

The Orange Loon (15.3hh purebred Crabbet Arabian gelding) became almost unrideable if we were ever jumping in fast company. He'd had a successful career as a showjumper, was quite sure he knew the fastest/best route over any set of jumps, natural or otherwise.
I gained a degree of control by using a Neue Schule combination bit with double reins, and a standing martingale which was clipped to the saddle's forward D rings.
Little Treasure is now retired, but has to be closely supervised if hounds are meeting anywhere within his remarkably sharp hearing. Otherwise, he flies around the field, winding up his other relatives and cutting up the grazing.

 

[cauda equina]

A kineton noseband was the answer for mine

And mine

 

[P.forpony]

This is really interesting! Did you jump in the standing martingale? There's so much controversy about jumping in one and I'd be a bit worried it would affect balance/ saving himself etc, especially over the larger or drop hedges?

Interesting point about the kineton noseband!

I know it can be a controversial one and was a bit hesitant myself at the time, but it really was my last option. In hindsight I wish I'd tried it sooner!

I made sure I fitted it the old fashioned way, which means it's really quite loose, and should only actually come into play when their head comes beyond the bounds of the civilised.
So when they're standing relaxed and tacked up you can push the strap of the standing part up so it touches the throatlatch.

I did jump in it at home, which for me was enough to solve the issue.

I've seen plenty of horses out hunting wearing them, but I'm still a bit on the fence on wether I'd be happy to tackle big country with one on personally.
I think ultimately it would depend on lots of variables like the ground conditions, the horses way of going, are they careful jumpers etc
And also the balance of risk, for you and your horse, what's the bigger risk, to use it or not use it?

I had considered in the past the possibility of putting something (like the rubber from a peacock stirrup) to act as a kind of breakaway loop between the noseband and the martingale, which would break to free her head if we had some sort of misadventure. I didn't need to in the end but might be an option to consider.

I'm a fan of anything that reduces a fight between me and the horses mouth, and the standing martingale and the kineton both tick this box, but that's probably why they're both so effective.

I threw on a Market Harborough in desperation, horse was already in a waterford....
I spent 2 meets non jumping, horse could only lean on himself, did the job for me.
Unclipped the MH on the 3rd meet on 2nd line (popped the clips together on neck) and we had some fabulous jumping, with brakes. He stayed v keen but better brakes thereafter.

This is also a very good point, you could stick one on and have a few non jumping days if you're unsure about jumping in it and see if it has the desired effect

 

[Clodagh]

I used a market harborough as well. I was undecided on a standing but they are often used in Leicestershire and so can’t be too bad.