draw reins........again!

MontyandZoom

MontyandZoom

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As anyone who has read my posts knows, I have an ultimate giraffe pony!
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People keep banging on to me about draw reins and why don't I try them blah de blah.

I see people at my yard with their horses in an 'outline' held with draw reins and their back end trailing out behind them.......it does my nut in. Zoomy steps under herself and has started working nicely through her back, she just won't accept a contact since she has been hauled around as a polo mare with her head up.

The thing is I just can't bring myself to use them
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I don't even know why not!!! I have just been conditioned that they are bad due to various horsey mentors being against them.

Has anyone used them on a giraffe pony to encourage them to reach into the contact? (successfully!
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) Or should I stick with my gut and just carry on as I am without reaching for the reins?
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to be honest, i feel that there's nothing wrong with draw reins as long as there used properly. id book 2 lessons and for the first one ask instructors opinion and if they feel draw reins would be helpful, used them for the second lesson. as long as you keep riding in to the contact and pushing through, they can be quite useful!
 
I have the same opinion about draw reins as you but like any artificial aid they can work if used correctly. My friend had a mare that would throw her head in canter she used draw reins to hack and school in (for about 10mins before taking them off) and after about a week she stopped using them and the horse is so much better to the point she got 82% in a prelim dressage test a score i didn’t think was possible.

So in the right hands they are a good tool.

I think if you are aware of the back end working through and don’t ride on them just use them like a curb rein on a double you might see a big difference, once your horse understands the principle and develops the right muscles you can remove them and work the conventional way.

We all like to be a purist but sometimes we need a little help, I use a continental snaffle on my 18hh hunter because it helps me to lift his shoulders and encourage him to self carry then I go back to a snaffle for dressage competitions.
 
Thanks for the reply. I am currently looking for an instructor......the only slight snag is that opinion seems divided between instructors around my way too!
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They are a real marmite issue it seems!
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I would start working her from the ground to teach her how to work into a correct contact. Try long reining (your instructor can teach you how to if you haven't done it before); you can do all of the usual basic school exercises on the LRs... circles, transistions, changes of rein, serpentines, pole work. My horse responds really well to work on the LRs and it's helping to teach him to stretch and use his back end properly.

I'd also try lunging in a pessoa once a week, again to encourage her to use herself correctly.

I'm not a fan of draw reins personally as they're so easy to use incorrectly. Generally they're a shortcut as they just pull the head in - if your horse is going correctly, the head should drop anyway. How are you asking her to drop her nose once she's working properly and forwards?

Do some lateral work with her too, that gets my horse working properly.
 
I've used them once before, but not needed to since but seen them used a fair few times (sometimes well, sometimes not so well...). I think as long as you aren't hanging onto them all of the time, and you let your horse walk and stretch often enough, you should be fine. Just start by picking them up for a few seconds at a time, letting her feel the contact on them and wit until she drops her head a little and then loosen them off again? That'd be how I'd go about it. Keep her going forward and don't rely too much on them
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Good luck, sounds like you're doing pretty well with her anyway!
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Hmmm......maybe a will give them a go. I am just a bit concerned since Zoomy is SOOOO sensitive and I have worked so hard to stop her being mental that I don't want to do anything to upset it.

She doesn't like a martingale since she is quite afraid of contact and running martingales tend to aggravate her, would this be a similar effect to draw reins?(in terms of something touching her mouth)
 
Have you ever thought about something like a bungee rein? Not sure what other people think of them but I love them when used correctly. I've been using one OCCASIONALLY, on my boy just as when he steps up and lowers, the elastic gives - and so acts as a bit of a reward.

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to be honest, i feel that there's nothing wrong with draw reins as long as there used properly. id book 2 lessons and for the first one ask instructors opinion and if they feel draw reins would be helpful, used them for the second lesson. as long as you keep riding in to the contact and pushing through, they can be quite useful!

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It's one of those 'can of worms' subjects but I would say I agree with this. I use them on my mare occasionally - probably on average about every 6 months. I find them useful if we are starting some new work in dressage, to show her that she can do something without hollowing.

(last time was when we started half pass - legs were going in the right place and body flexed the right way but she blocked everything else by sticking her nose in the air! Added draw reins for a few mins = she understood what was required and gave me something to work with).

They can be a useful tool if used sparingly.
 
We have been long-reining and lunging in a pessoa and this has really helped her. She was completely upside down before but now she actually has some topline
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rather than a banana for a neck!!

I have always ridden her with very long reins and a very light contact since previously she would simply try to gallop off or rear if you took up a contact. On the advice of a dressage judge, now she is working more calmly I have started taking up more rein and 'buzzing' the rein until she brings her head down. She does come down sometimes (especially when leg-yielding and on a small circle) but it is very inconsistent and she tends to go overbent to get away from my hands. We do short burst since otherwise she gets frustrated and hollows and everything goes to pot!

I guess I am just getting frustrated since it has taken so long to even get to this point!
 
Ditto the work on the ground and the Pessoa.

I use them (not regularly - and can't remember the last time I did) but when used correctly they have their place. I use to have a very giraffe like TB with her they were very useful, never overly tight or constricting but there. I still made sure she was working from behind etc. It really helped with her and got her working over her back nicely
 
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She doesn't like a martingale since she is quite afraid of contact and running martingales tend to aggravate her, would this be a similar effect to draw reins?(in terms of something touching her mouth)

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If she is that sensitive with her mouth that she won’t tolerate a martingale i would maybe be looking at other bits. I personally wouldn’t put draw reins on a horse that is so sensitive. I would find an instructor YOU and your horse like and work towards getting your horse to accept the contact maybe even get an instructor to ride a few times.
 
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rather than a banana for a neck!!


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PMSL!!
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It sounds to me like you're doing all the right things. I'd start trying out some instructors (someone on here is bound to be able to recommend someone...where are you based?) til you find someone you like.

Short bursts is good, along with lots of stretching afterwards. Try some shoulder fore/in as well.
 
She was previously ridden in a gag for polo but after trying alot of bits she is now in a happy mouth hanging cheek with a roller which we are both happy with. It took alot of trial and error since she is VERY fast and fizzy. She has got alot more used to the martingale now, it used to make her panic but unfortunately I need it when jumping to prevent myself from getting a broken nose!

It is quite hard to explain how she is with her mouth, she is absolutely fine when jumping/hacking......she understands that pressure on the reins means stop! It's just that she gets confused when schooling and won't go between hand and leg............hmmm I'm not explaining it very well am I! When doing fast work she can sometimes take hold of the bit and run but when schooling she does everything avoid it. She also head shakes so she may improve in the winter.

I have had a couple of suggestions from here for instructors so i am going to organise a lesson in the next couple of weeks.
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She is anything but straightforward!!!!!
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I would say no to the draw reins, I had a stunning boy who before i had bought him had been side reined and draw rein to death, yes he brought his head in but didn't use his back end at all, took some work to corret it.
I like the Pessoa they help them use them self though the back.
U mentioned see dose not like contact due to the way she used to be rode amybe worth popping her back in a breaking bit the ones with keys see if you can get some contact with a breaking bit may take a few month.
 
IF the running martingale is making her panicky by acting on her mouth then why don't you try a standing martingale? Get help to get it properly fitted and it won't affect her jumping in any way but will prevent the broken nose! As an ex-polo pony surely she will be used to a standing martingale so it shouldn't upset her.
 
That's a thought. I actually have a standing martingale for her since she still plays horseball occassionally with her owner (she's a loan horse).

A breaking bit could be handy actually, she has now started to mouth the bit more but that could encourage her......I think I'm going to write all these things down and bring them up in the lesson.
 
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Where do you live? For some reason I seem to think you're quite near to me (Shrops/Staffs)?

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Boo.....unfortunately I'm down in London!
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QR - Not sure if it has been said, but howabout a standing martingale? Then you are still trying to bring the head down but without being overly harsh on the mouth.

If you have a running martingale you can just push the loops through the noseband to make it a standing one.
 
QR drawreins are useless unless the horse is going forwards from behine.. if you want to go down this type of route, then I would start with lunging in a passoa on low setting to encourage the horse to come through from behine while taking a long and low contact and stretching through his back.

Lou x
 
Trouble is someone has spent lots of time getting her to go in the polo style and you are now telling her something totally foreign.

If you have any round you a western trainer would probably actually help you more as the poor pony won't understand a heavy english contact.

Depends what you have planned for her, if it really is a life of dressage, you will have to start from scratch. However for all other disciplines you can learn to ride in a hybrid style to help her along. That means using you seat more than the the hands and continuing to utilize the neck reining aids when required.
 
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That means using you seat more than the the hands and continuing to utilize the neck reining aids when required.

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If things are done properly then you should be using more seat than hands anyway surely? I switched to a Classical instructor earlier this year and it's all about the seat, rarely hands at all.
 
Luckily my aspirations don't go far beyond my own schooling sessions
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She has improved loads and loads!!!! We have done some local dressage and showjumping as well as sponsored rides and hunting and she is a lovely fun ride. I think I have been spurred on since someone said last week "you'll never sort that mare's head out" so now I have to give it my all to give them two fingers!!

I am only really trying to improve for my own sense of achievement. I think I just get so frustrated as people see me struggling with her and think they would do a better job with her
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It's very difficult when people haven't sat on the horse since they don't know what is right for her. I would never push her since she is honest and genuine and I really love her to bits.

To give you an idea she has gone from this:
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to this:
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in a year of schooling so I am over the moon.......I am just finding it hard to get over the last hurdle. The dressage judge at our last one basically said 'she is a lovely active and willing horse' BUT she won't get higher marks until she accepts your contact more
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I'm in a similar boat with a deranged-camel-impression pony. He's now on a diet of lateral work to get him really stepping under. I'm finding it's a very fine line with the contact: I was, like you, trying to keep it very light, but we sort of hit a plateau. Now, I'm supposed to be keeping a much stronger contact so that he doesn't run out the front door, but with very very quiet hands. I've been thinking about trying a rubber straight-bar snaffle to encourage him: still not sure...

Perhaps you should sit down with the instructor that doesn't like draw reins, and discuss what you perceive as the problem, and how you think that draw reins might help. Perhaps she will have an alternative plan. Or else, because you know she's suspicious of the method, you can try the draw reins while knowing that she will call a stop to it very quickly if it's not having the desired effect.
 
she doesn't sound like the sort of horse to benefit from draw reins imo- i like them for sorting a specific issue or blip (eg head up to canter) but not simply for getting the horse in an outline.

i would carry on as you are with trying to increase the rein contact and lunging and long reining.

perhaps find an instructor who could ride her for 10 minutes at the beginning of the session to help her understand what is wanted and to give you a good starting point to work from?
 
In the right hands they're not all bad. I have used draw reins in the past for a short while on my lad who wasn't accepting the contact - I used them maybe 3 or 4 times and the did help but it was hard work to keep him moving thro from behind so that they didn't have a negative effect!
How much lateral work do you do with your girl? IME a bit of shoulder in and/or anything that enables you to control the shoulders and move them where you want them helps with the outline/contact issues better than any gadget.
Of course you have to make sure she's truly 'forwards' too!
It's a long road and one we're still on but he's improved a hundred-fold, keep at it & one day everything will drop into place.
 
I use draw reins on my mare, they are a fantastic tool in the right hands, btu I wouldn't let most people get on her with them.

My reason for using them is she is more than capeable of working correctly, but her biggest evasion is when shes had enough, she breaks the contact, throws her head up and dissapears into her own world with her head sky high.

Working her with the draw reins means I have a method of getting through to Holly world, and bringing her back to a place where she listens to me, and as such I regain control. Workign her in the draw reins means I have a pony who I can acctually work with for a 30 min session, rather than against.

I prefer the draw reins over anything else, because I am in control of when they act, so when its all going well, I can keep slackening them off until I reach the buckle of that rein, while keeping the true contact.
 
i had similar issues with my old girl (not from polo, but being stuck in a riding school for 18 months) - i didnt use draw reins, they scared me! but i did use the abbott davies, and it worked wonders, i would use it for about 10 minutes and then take it off, and she would be much happier. its an expensive bit of kit, but really worked for me...
 
I would find yourself a good instructor and not use draw reins in the first instance.

If you horse is used to working with her head up then the underneath of her neck will be more developed than the top. Strapping on draw reins I agree, will bring her head down, but this is unfair as you will not be able to tell when the "correct" muscles now working become fatigued. When this happens, your horse will have to tense its back in order to continue working in this foreign way which just leads to more problems.

Draw reins do NOT encourage the back to swing and become soft they do the opposite. If the back is really swinging and the longissimus muscle is relaxed, the head and neck naturally come into an outline. Obviously you are re-schooling this horse for dressage and you need to be careful as its a huge transition for her... I go back to my first point, a good instructor with experience of re-schooling horses, plus plenty of patience.
 
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