Draw reins on youngsters??
- Thread starter buntybaby
- Start date
noodle_
Well-Known Member
weel said! ^
i hate them and im honestly loathe to use any other training aid except side reins - and thats taken me 7 months since buying my horse to use them and that was a struggle for me lol!...
Id rather spend more time using minimal training aids than draw reins....
Wagtail
Horse servant
oh no he was very clear "if i had this horse at home i would have it in draw reins for a few sessions" was what he said. many top top riders use them...they just don't often admit to it because so many people get their knickers in a twist about them
i think its fantastic that you don't need to use them, i really do, but i also don't have an issue that some of our top riders use them either...
I guess all my experience has been with horses that have been spoilt by them. I have used them myself in the past, but that was under different influences and before I had established my approach to horse training.I think its good to give things a try before judging and I don't say that there will never ever be a horse that I could not train effectively without resorting to artificial aids. I use the pessoa and sometimes side reins for lunging, for example. It's just that I find good hands are the quickest way to acheive lightness when riding. I think that draw reins would actually slow my progess if I used them, and I would consider it a failure to resort to them.
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Wagtail
Horse servant
yes it can if you use them properly
The release is never as instant because the connection is not a direct one. The connection is tempered by the rein sliding through the ring and therefore the feel is not so delicate or accurate.
diggerbez
Well-Known Member
but you would use side reins for lungeing where there is no release at all???
(i'm not having a go btw- i will happily use side reins! 
)
AndySpooner
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't use 'top competitive riders' as any sort of example for training young horses, big mistake mixing training young horses and competition.
diggerbez
Well-Known Member
why? some top riders have very questionable methods and will push young horses too early i agree.... but if you look at many pros they train their babies extremely sympathetically - they need to to ensure that the basics are right for when they move up the levels?? look at a horse like Valegro- achieving awesome things, mainly i suspect because of the way he has been trained right from the start.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Hi all
Just wanting peoples opinion on this!
I have just seen pics of my recently ex trainer riding her rising 5 yr WB dressage in draw reinsat a clinic with a very well known dr trainer! Now i know the horse quite well and can't honestly see why she should need to ride him in them as he's got a laid back temp and seems really trainable etc, was just completely shocked tbh! He is 16.3hh easily and has quite big expressive paces and she can't be more than 5ft6, maybe she's a bit over-horsed but still!
What do you guys think about using draw reins on young horses? Is it necessary or does it just create problems later in life?
Personally don't agree with them on a young horse although do think they have a purpose for older much more established horses in the very short term!
Any thoughts??
I don't have any problem at all with people who know how to use them using draw reins when they feel they need them on any age of horse.
But from your description, this most certainly would not fit "needing them" by my definition.
I have a WB who fits your description to a T, though I am taller than the rider, and I would no more put draw reins on him than I would ride him naked down the highstreet
I am always amazed by the number of people who are vitriolic in their condemnation of draw reins that are easily adjusted as required, but seem perfectly happy with the idea of lunging or longreining with their horse's head tied to its saddle in side reins.
diggerbez
Well-Known Member
I don't have any problem at all with people who know how to use them using draw reins when they feel they need them on any age of horse.
But from your description, this most certainly would not fit "needing them" by my definition.
I have a WB who fits your description to a T, though I am taller than the rider, and I would no more put draw reins on him than I would ride him naked down the highstreet
I am always amazed by the number of people who are vitriolic in their condemnation of draw reins that are easily adjusted as required, but seem perfectly happy with the idea of lunging or longreining with their horse's head tied to its saddle in side reins.
totally agree with your last comment cpatryes!
with regards to the OP- could be that the horse is going through that brat stage that a lot of 5 year olds have? where they try to use their new found strength against the rider? it was as a 5 year old that my horse needed a few short sessions in draw reins. maybe the OP just hasn't been there when said horse has been misbehaving? or it could be that the draw reins aren't needed- hence why i think asking is the best idea
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Completely agree, if my nearly five had continued his feisty fives by bucking any more than he did, I would have had them on him if I thought it would make me safer for a few sessions. I was just going by the OP's description of him being laid back and really trainable. But again, maybe she has only seen him at home and we all know that babies can go wild at their first parties My first dressage comment on my own "laid back and very trainable" WB recently was "I take my hat off to you" - for sitting out his canter contortions
My first dressage comment on my own "laid back and very trainable" WB recently was "I take my hat off to you" - for sitting out his canter contortions teddyt
Well-Known Member
To me Draw reins = a short cut. Not even a correct one either, as they dont give the same result as time and training for a horse to build muscle, develop strength and use itself properly. They are a quick fix for the rider.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
I agree completely teddyt. It is MUCH quicker to stay on top, release the reins when you don't need them and finish your training session calm and in control than it is to scrape yourself off the floor and wait 4 hours to be seen in A&E and return to a horse that won last time and thinks he'll just try it again next time. Much quicker, yup
Damnation
Well-Known Member
I think ANY gadget has its place with the right horse and the right rider who knows how to use them.
I very occasionally use drawreins on my mare because she can be very inconsistent in her mouth and her evasion is to throw her head up, especially during lateral work. So once a month I will school her in draw reins. Not tight or head being strapped in, I ride mainly off my snaffle rein. They are literally there so she can't chuck her head up and run when I want shoulder in or leg yield!! They keep her together and soft, without anchoring her down, as this is my PET HATE with draw reins!!! I only need to use them every so often as a "reminder" that she can't run through a rider. Hopefully we won't need them for much longer..
If you can't school without draw reins however, is a different matter entirely.. Buy a horse you can ride!!!
I very occasionally use drawreins on my mare because she can be very inconsistent in her mouth and her evasion is to throw her head up, especially during lateral work. So once a month I will school her in draw reins. Not tight or head being strapped in, I ride mainly off my snaffle rein. They are literally there so she can't chuck her head up and run when I want shoulder in or leg yield!! They keep her together and soft, without anchoring her down, as this is my PET HATE with draw reins!!! I only need to use them every so often as a "reminder" that she can't run through a rider. Hopefully we won't need them for much longer..
If you can't school without draw reins however, is a different matter entirely.. Buy a horse you can ride!!!
ChesnutsRoasting
Well-Known Member
Hi all
Just wanting peoples opinion on this!
I have just seen pics of my recently ex trainer riding her rising 5 yr WB dressage in draw reins
What do you guys think about using draw reins on young horses? Is it necessary or does it just create problems later in life?
Personally don't agree with them on a young horse although do think they have a purpose for older much more established horses in the very short term!
Any thoughts??
I find it very sad that someone resorts to draw reins during a horses basic training.
diggerbez
Well-Known Member
I agree completely teddyt. It is MUCH quicker to stay on top, release the reins when you don't need them and finish your training session calm and in control than it is to scrape yourself off the floor and wait 4 hours to be seen in A&E and return to a horse that won last time and thinks he'll just try it again next time. Much quicker, yup
hahahaha
rowy
Well-Known Member
definitely definitely not for me. My friend bought a youngster from a sjumper who had draw reins on him a lot since he was 3 and now he has developed incorrect muscles and finds it very difficult to go into an outline naturally. takes her 40mins before he begins to soften. she has started to use loose side reins to soften him up at the beginning before taking them off.
ulla
Member
Here here could'nt agree more. Think they defeat the object altogether. I know someone who uses them when her horse doesn't go right then she leaves them tied down in the stable!
buntybaby
Well-Known Member
I agree with this as regards to young horses and i know a few other dressage people who have used them as a quick fix to get their horses going in a way that they think is correct ie in more of an advanced outline when horse was just 6 and didnt really have the correct basics in place first! and do believe that in this case definately the rider is the problem not the horse. I know this because i have ridden said horse in a totally diff way ie pushing forwards in to a longer rein to encourage him to take a contact forwards in to a longer frame and i believe due to the draw reins used incorrectly (imo) he was working very 'up' and heavy in the hand and really didnt know what to do when i gave him the rein and said now go forwards. Patience and a fair bit of leg he got the idea and was a diff horse!! (as i was told by an olympic rider who was in the school at the time!!)
Back to said trainer in my op, she is known for using draw reins on most things and has taught me on a schooling livery she had in and told me to put draw reins on him as they'd been schooling him in them for a couple of weeks and he was so heavy in the hand and just hard work so let them slip through my hand a little to release them and he started to feel lighter and like he felt he had more freedom to move and then was a much nicer horse to ride!!
I do agree they have their place in the right hands and for the right reasons. I've used them on both of my horses under trainers say so and one horse went lovely in them even with them looser, she was around 19 at the time. Also used them on my 8yr old last year only for a few sessions and she spent most of the time fighting them (they were NOT tight/ head strapped in) that she cut her mouth so never again for her!!
Kokopelli
Well-Known Member
They have their place.
However, those saying it's okay because the top riders do it is no argument at all. The top riders also do rolkur. Granted some are brilliant riders but a lot of short cuts are used at that level because they need results quickly to make any money.
However, those saying it's okay because the top riders do it is no argument at all. The top riders also do rolkur. Granted some are brilliant riders but a lot of short cuts are used at that level because they need results quickly to make any money.
wellsat
Well-Known Member
While I wouldn't want to regularly school in them I have been riding in them recently and its changed my opinion of them.
I have a fit 17.2hh Westphalian who is currently on box rest and needs to be ridden out on hacks to give him controlled, steady exercise.
I rode him for a couple of weeks of rearing and spinning everytime a bird flew past before I thought that draw reins might be safer for all concerned. He can't rear in draw reins and he's back to listening and being sensible. If he had reared and I had fallen off and let him gallop for home he could have done irreparable damage and have been PTS. Draw reins vs permanent injury to horse? I know which I prefer.
In an ideal world I wouldn't ride in them but then in an ideal world my horse wouldn't be on box rest either...
I have a fit 17.2hh Westphalian who is currently on box rest and needs to be ridden out on hacks to give him controlled, steady exercise.
I rode him for a couple of weeks of rearing and spinning everytime a bird flew past before I thought that draw reins might be safer for all concerned. He can't rear in draw reins and he's back to listening and being sensible. If he had reared and I had fallen off and let him gallop for home he could have done irreparable damage and have been PTS. Draw reins vs permanent injury to horse? I know which I prefer.
In an ideal world I wouldn't ride in them but then in an ideal world my horse wouldn't be on box rest either...
buntybaby
Well-Known Member
Definitely agree with this!
diggerbez
Well-Known Member
i think we all know what i meant by 'top riders'- i mean the truly brilliant riders who people want to emulate and ride like/produce horses like (hence why i gave mark todd as an example and not anky
)teddyt
Well-Known Member
I agree. In the case of the poster with a horse on box rest, then for safety I can see they may be needed.
However, as a training 'aid' or used for safety under usual training then I still believe they are a short cut. If a horse is managed appropriately (turn out, feed, company, etc), it is sufficiently handled as a youngster, it has sufficient ground work before the rider gets on and then is accustomed to a rider in a progressive manner on a timescale that the horse can cope with then you shouldnt need to resort to such things to keep the rider safe.
If a horse is getting wound up and out of control then something has gone amiss in earlier training imo, the horse is not coping with what it is being asked to do.
Of course not everyone is responsible for every stage of a horses life and they may pick up where someone else has left, with the foundations being built innappropriately. However there is still the option of re-building those foundations correctly so the horse and rider arent put in the position of losing control. Again, this takes time and patience and Draw reins can therefore be an easier and quicker way to achieve a safe result.
Wagtail
Horse servant
but you would use side reins for lungeing where there is no release at all???
This is an entirely different situation. When lungeing, you are unable to affect the horse in the same way as when riding. It is important that horses are lunged working over their backs or they will develop incorrectly. I only use side reins once they have started working correctly over their backs in the de gouge or pessoa and ridden. If a horse is so well established that it naturally carries itself over the back in a round outline (as most do when they have been trained correctly) then I use nothing at all to lunge them.
shadowboy
Well-Known Member
totally with this ^^^ I had an ID x Warmblood and at only 5'3 I struggled to hold him together when he was doing more complex work- I found that I couldnt get him to be light because he was too flat and my leg just wasnt long enough to get round his table top back to push him out of 'flat mode' . The draw reins were there as the tipping point so to speak if he started to string out- they would gently reming him that I was there asking him, helping to collect the front end so I could bring him together with my seat- once he was back on track the draw reins would flop. I have ridden many years and would only use them on horses comfortable with their effect and as a help when my stature just couldn't bring together a monstrosity of a horse!I don't have any problem at all with people who know how to use them using draw reins when they feel they need them on any age of horse.
But from your description, this most certainly would not fit "needing them" by my definition.
I have a WB who fits your description to a T, though I am taller than the rider, and I would no more put draw reins on him than I would ride him naked down the highstreet
I am always amazed by the number of people who are vitriolic in their condemnation of draw reins that are easily adjusted as required, but seem perfectly happy with the idea of lunging or longreining with their horse's head tied to its saddle in side reins.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Exactly, as I said I could only contemplate using them if I was over horsed. I don't mean to be harsh as it is no reflection of your ability but why do smaller people like yourself get horses that are too big and strong for them? I know so many small women who seem to be drawn to huge horses. Why is this?
diggerbez
Well-Known Member
but you said that draw reins are bad because no release and yet side reins are good because no release? i agree that should work over back on lunge- but don't think you can argue that this is a reason for not using draw reins, sorry but you can release and reward with draw reins and can't with side reins???
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
This is a description written by someone who is only thinking of draw reins being used incorrectly, and can't any tool?
"Draw reins" do not place a horse behind the verticle. THE RIDER DOES.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
I'm not small but I ride horses that are far bigger than I need to because:
They are cheaper to buy once they go to 17 hands and above because Ms Average wants a 16.1 or thereabouts.
Bigger horses take longer to react and can actually be easier to ride than a smaller sharper one, if they spook out on a hack, for example.
I find the big ones (and ponies) often have the most developed characters and I love a big character.
Big horses make more impact in a dressage arena, they fill the eye more. Most of the top riders ride big horses for that reason.
If I am going to jump a six foot hedge I would much prefer to look down on it than to look up at it.
I just love the feel of riding a tall horse.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Those are all very good reasons. I love small horses myself, and I am 5'10". Luckily I'm slim andtry not t go smaller than 15.2. 16 - 16.2 looks better.