Draw Reins........opinions from people who have used them...

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4whitesocks

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*ducks for cover*

OK so I know there's an anti-gadget brigade and I know there's a natural horsemanship brigade and I know there's a 'only in the right hands' brigade but I just wanted to get thoughts from those of you who have actually used draw reins......
If you've used them when have you found them beneficial - are they more useful for a horse that's well into it's basic training & has hit a wall....or more from a younger age...& for how long.....What damage can you do with them & when should they not be used...

I obviously have my own opionions on this one but they have been challenged recently so just wanted to canvas some opinions!!!

Thanks
 
I am part of the if used in the right hands brigade! I have and would use them again, but only if i really needed them. When i used them it was with the help of a very experienced instructor and she showed me exactly how to use them first. I found that it really helped me and i achieved things with that particular horse that at the time i wouldnt have been able to achieve otherwise.
 
I am for schooling aids and think they can be invaluable as part of your tack however it depends on the horse and the rider I fin d draw reins can give the illusion of horse being on the bit but unless you ride properly thats all it is an illusion but when used properly they can work well, I would never knock any one down for using them and have used them in the past
 
I am also part of the used in the right hands brigade! I used them a lot on my old mare, laurel, with the help of my instructor, they really helped her to become more supple and made her a much nicer ride. Have also used them on Jigsaw, also with the help of an experienced instructor, just to help him really to become more supple and flexible. If they are used too much though, the rider and horse start to rely on them though
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Okay... I'm gonna brave the fire on this one LOL

I've used them on two horses, one was a large warmblood mare who would trot/walk lovely and soft/round, but would throw her head up and charge off on the canter transition. My very very experienced instructor (qualified horses for Badminton, 3* eventer etc etc) recommend them as he felt that this was an ingrained evasion tactic.

The reaction of the mare to the draw reins was to attempt to throw her head up and then, when prevented, proceed to bronc round the school. After about 1/2hr I took them off. Later it turned out the mare had an ill fitting saddle and a back problem which was the 'true' cause of her bad behaviour(wasn't my horse, I was just exercising it for someone).

I have also used them once or twice on my horse who came to me with a back problem and an upside down neck. Once her back was right again, I started to work her long and low but she really found it hard - partly through not having the right muscles and partly through fear of the remembered pain.

I used them because I wanted to help her over her fear and to build up a bit of topline so she found the work easier but I found that although her head would come out of the sky, she just hollowed her back and disenganged totally behind. I also noticed that she 'broke' in her neck, just in front of the saddle which wasn't the development I was looking for (!) so I stopped using them after the 2nd time.

Personally I wouldn't use them unless I was told to by a horse's owner/my boss etc but I think in experienced hands there is a place for them.
 
im part of the 'use in the right hands brigade' too
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Damage they can do is cause incorrect muscle development, they can cause the horse to rear if used too strongly - ive seen that many a time. Also i often see people ridding off the draw rein and not off the actual rein. They should be used to reinforce your rein aid, not used INSTEAD of the rein aid.

I school my mare in them most of the time, as it means i can concentrate on getting her more active and through from behind and softer through her poll. She can get quite heavy in her carriage, and so i use them to reinforce my rein aid if you starts to lean on me too much.
 
I use them for the same reasons as PG. Don't use them a lot but I sometimes use them on Tufty as he can be really lazy and it means I can focus on him moving forward and not having to woryy about his head. I don't know if this is correct but sometimes i just leave them on the horse's neck.
 
generall,you can spot a horse that's been ridden in draw reins a mile off - which isn't necessarly how you want your horse to look.

What's the wall that you've hit?

E
 
I am for them too in the right hands( as well as other training aids) I use them some times as they can just encourage a horse to go in the correct way.I also have a de gouge, chambon, vienna reins, pessoa, sid reins, market harborough and harbridge- all useful to have.
 
I've never used draw reins but my instructor says we'll be using them in my next flat lesson- i took a sharp breath in when she said it
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I'm weary of using them but she knows what she is doing and will be teaching me how to ride with them properly- she also said it will be a one off as she's not the biggest fan
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I'm a bit of an ignorant with drawreins....my boy throws his head around in canter (lack of balance) but surely drawreins would just be something to fight against?

Are drawreins a cure for something that can be prevented through correct training?

I'm asking questions that I really don't know the answer to so not trying to be antagonistic!
 
I use them on a 16.3hh horse who is upright and short in the neck. He also sets his jaw against you so you are always struggling to get him soft without a fight and a hell of a lot of work. Draw reins knock all this on the head and stop the fighting and get him working correctly from the off.
 
There's a well known German vet called Dr Gerhard Heuschmann who is very outspoken on this subject. He's an expert in horse anatomy and the things that can go wrong.

He detests draw reins because as he says 'when a rider pulls on the reins with 60 pounds of pressure, 600 pounds of pressure is exerted at the poll; draw reins double this effect.'

Draw reins can cause the following physical damage to a horse - bursitis of the poll, ossifications in the poll, damage to the back both musculature and skeletal, prolonged lameness and disturbance of the basic gaits. Draw reins also change the action of the bit onto the sides of the jaw, exerting a backward force that encourages the horse, when nowhere else to escape to, to go up on its hindlegs. Draw reins are totally contrary to teaching the horse self-carriage.

Basically they are either a short cut to get quick results or to make up for inadequacies in riding... and I speak as someone who is a very inadequate rider! I've used draw reins in the past but would never do so now... I'd rather just admit I'm not good enough to get a horse in self-carriage and carry on learning until I can.
 
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generall,you can spot a horse that's been ridden in draw reins a mile off - which isn't necessarly how you want your horse to look.

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Sorry but I dont agree with that. Yes sometimes you can but a lot of dressage riders use them correctly and you cant tell.

I use them on my mare, she developed a habit of setting off with her head in the air and riding in the loose draw reins stopped this as she couldnt throw her head up which gave me more control. She also has a habit of poking her nose and getting her tongue over the bit in the halt transitions. When using the draw reins I can get her to come soft and round withiout her evading the bit.
 
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I am part of the if used in the right hands brigade! I have and would use them again, but only if i really needed them. When i used them it was with the help of a very experienced instructor and she showed me exactly how to use them first.

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In my case Dragon was SO sharp and spooky (and I had ended up on the floor twice! splitting myhat in too once - I was only walking in a menage I may add).

The draw reins used only ever under instruction from my instructor gave me back his attention and also gave me the confidence to get through it. Without them I doubt I'd have continued riding him!

I've never ridden with them tight, and only so that they came into play if the horses head came up beyond a certain point (this was to reduce his line of sight and line of spooking!)

We don't use them now, but I think they do very much have a purpose in certain circumstances and I wouldn't be afraid to use them again in the future.
 
Like everything else they exist because someone, somewhere in some situation found them useful. And, like all tools, they are neutral in and of themselves, the benefit or harm comes from how they are used.

Well, duh.
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I have used them in the past (although for some such situations I would now not have to use them in since I'M a better horseman) and I can't rule out using them again if I cannot find another option. I deally I would like to find another, less potentially harmful, way of going about whatever I am trying to accomplish but unfortunately I don't live in a perfect world and I, particularly, sometimes end up with horses who are not just difficult but dangerous. If some sort of tool is going to give me a chance to fix an undersirable situation whilst minimising risk, then I will look into it.

They can have their place to RETRAIN for specific evasions and incorrect developments. IF the solution can be reached more easily, with less stress to all, by the judicious use of a tool then it can be a benefit all 'round, so long as the action is understood and the specific risks allowed for.

You also see people who ride a lot of horses use them so that they don't get overwhelmed, strength-wise, but one would hope such people are very educated and careful in their use. Riding half a dozen horses in a show situation is no joke, physically speaking, and while one can argue people shouldn't be doing more than they can comfortably do, life sometimes doesn't work out that way.

That said, there are real risks and anyone who has not taken the time to learn about them really should not be taking them on.

All leverage tools - pelhams and other curb bits, gags, draw reins and their related brethren, longing get ups - work by increasing force mechanically. They don't make horses lighter, they make horses FEEL lighter because they make riders stronger. For example, most pelhams have a leverage component of 2.1 to 2.4, which means they increase the force on the rein by that much. So if you have five pounds of pressure on your hands there is between 10 and 12 pounds on the horse's mouth . . . Draw reins increase force by somewhere between 6 and 10 depending on how they are hooked up.

That's a lot of force. And depending on other factors it is increased even futher at the poll because of the factor of the length of the horse's head.

Pretty scary. And the reason so many horses get heavier over time when leverage tools are used. The horse is essentially "strength trained" to pull harder.

So that force, judiciously, correctly, and lightly applied can allow the rider to get control of a situation in which he/she would be otherwise completely out matched. It can provide an open door for futher, correct training if the goal is always lightness.

BUT it also provides the potential for extraordinarly harm. The rise of neck arthritis/wobblers/hock problems has been positited as being related to increased demands of "roundness" at all costs in modern competition. Lots of old horsemen consider draw reins to be bad for horses' hocks (The hocks are a "weak link" in the top line and therefore easily damaged.) and I think there's a good argument that they and things like them can be very bad for horses' spines.

Soooo my position . . . not unless other options have been investigated. Like taking time, schooling with a more skilled rider etc. And certainly not until all possible training and health causes for the undesreable behaviour have been thoroughly investigated.

Also, I would NEVER put a client on a horse in draw reins unless I had ridden the horse in them first. There is just far too much potential for disaster. In fact, to be frank, I would rather just ride the horse myself a few times and get the result I needed, then put the regular rider back on and teach him/her the feel we're going for that way.
 
I used them for a week or two on my warmblood x TB 4 yo. He wouldn't do a trot-canter trans without throwing his head up. I just used them til he got the idea that he COULD do it - which didn't take more than a few sessions - then carried on without.

I think if you use them a lot, it's possible for some horses to end up being 'tight' or 'blocked' at the withers so that the horse isn't properly 'through' - or maybe that's just if you use them incorrectly. But then it's poss to get similar probs from riding in a bit with poll leverage eg dutch gag... ie head down but nothing coming from behind.
 
OK thanks for all the comments folks...I can see the divide & the reasons for and against on both sides....6 months ago someone suggested I use them on Sid as a quick fix to 'get him on the bit' & I recoiled in horror as my impression of them was so negative....and apart from that I was only starting to get him into proper work & develop a top-line, strengthen his back working long & low etc & it was completely the wrong timing IMO to use something just to 'haul him into shape'

he has now been in solid work for a good nine months, has a developed top-line and is working consistently on the bit for my YO (he is on full schooling livery).
I however am having a battle on my hands & granted am not as experienced a rider as she is, nor as skilled...he does set against me in transitions & while we were about half way there (if there is such a thing - head slowly coming down & starting coming through from behind) I just couldn't get the whole way there.

Last night she asked me to try him in them - just to see how he should feel when on the bit & really using himself properly. I was reluctant but agreed 'just to see'. They were set as described by CS, to be honest I have a tendency to have my reins too long anyway so was even more wary of using them to 'haul him in' but worked him in loosely to get him working up into the bit on a relatively relaxed rein & then went from there...there were moments where the head came up, I sponged with regular rein & if no response then draw rein & he responded.

I honestly had one of the best lessons I have had since I got him....I did about 10 minutes of really comfortable sitting trot (I can't sit to his trot comfortably unless he's rounding up) and at the end of the 20/25 minute session the draw reins were so loose as to be flapping around, I had a light contact on regular rein and he was really carrying himself nicely....it felt like how it should feel if you know what I mean...

he's a clever sod to be honest & knows what he can get away with with me vs her...according to instructor my position & aids are all strong (or should I say 'much improved') but he's still taking the p*ss with me.....

I'm still a bit conflicted as to whether using these once a week for the next 3 weeks is 'cheating' or helping...whether I would be relying on a training aid to make up for my weaknesses ....

what happens when they come off!!!
sorry this is so long BTW!
 
I have used them to take my youngsters mind of napping. As soon as he naps I pull him in and push him forward. The moment he goes forward I release him as a reward. I do think that you have to be careful not to force an outline as the horse invariable will hallow in the back as a consequence. My youngster will come onto the bit without this artificial aid and I think that is so important. As with any 'tool' they are only as good as their user.
 
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Much prefer a Market Harborough myself.

[/ QUOTE ] Much agree and harbridge. Really not a fan of draw reins... To me I have seen to many horses strides ruined.... Seen there heads pinned down for a quick fix to be in fasion with 'on the bit' Little do they relise *and yes they don't get marked down at lowish level competing* But an outline isn't forced. An outline is a relaxed shape when the horse moves using his muscles correctly... the last being the poll which will lower his nose thrus casuing comfort zone and on the bit with = acceptance not pinned down....
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I used to use them on a horse who had little respect for a snaffle. She had been ridden in a double bridle mostly (working correctly) but when in the snaffle she used to poke her nose out and basically lean on the contact. By using the draw reins I was then able to work her correctly. I tend to use them for a couple of weeks initially and from then on just occasionally when they need reminding.
Just make sure you use your rein first and then if they don't respond you can back up your aid with the draw rein. I tend to find you need to use a stronger leg aid as although their head and neck comes in to a "correct" position it doesn't mean that they are working from behind correctly. If you are a bit worried about using them only use them with your instructor untill you get the hang of them.
 
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