I do not believe that horses should always be ridden in draw reins. BUT I can think of a lot worse situations many horses have to suffer & usually from so called horse lovers.
The horse I am talking about could have been a perfectly good horse without draw reins. On the one occassion he joined us on a lesson, YO INSISTED they were removed whilst she taught he was as good as gold, if overbent and nothing happening behind. Rider/owner couldn't cope because he looked up, around, ahead. She was not used to it.
I feel so sorry for that horse, he is a darling. I am sorry but in a lot of cases draw reins are used by people who can't ride so they can keep control.
I have a very strong dog and I use a pinch collar on him in certain situations. I look forward to the day when I will not need it. I KNOW there will be a day when I won't need it. I will not use it on him for the rest of his life because I cannot be arsed to train him how to behave.
I have mixed feelings on draw reins. I think if used appropriately in certain situations then they certainly have their place. If I had a fit, fresh horse that needed them for the rider to stay safer out hacking I wouldn't run off gasping either.
That said I cannot recall the last time I used draw reins on one of mine, about 3 years ago I used them on a stiff horse that I was re-schooling for someone to fairly good effect.
What always sticks in my mind though is some time I spent with an international sj'er. His horses wore draw reins day in, day out and in the warm up before jumping a class. These were very expensive horses and I have to say they were like riding a plank of wood with no mouth, pretty sad really. That said they jumped well ....
Personally I would never jump a horse in draw reins, if I felt I needed to then I would be over horsed. I believe the main reason for using them over jumps is to help the rider keep the horse short, round and over their backs. My personal opinion is they are a bit of a short cut and this is better achieved in the long run through schooling. Unfortunately time is money in the sj business.
Of course there are lots of bad riders. I would think though that this horse has it's problems because it is not ridden from the leg, rather than it is ridden in draw reins. I am a big believer that even a big thick eggbut snaffle can cause damage in the wrong hands.
To another subject I have two trained GS Alsations (one only 18 month & other 2 1/2. Also 3 other dogs. I would never use a pinch collar at any time. Simply because it is not necessary. So it just goes to show one man's meat is anothers poison.
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Of course there are lots of bad riders. I would think though that this horse has it's problems because it is not ridden from the leg, rather than it is ridden in draw reins. I am a big believer that even a big thick eggbut snaffle can cause damage in the wrong hands.
To another subject I have two trained GS Alsations (one only 18 month & other 2 1/2. Also 3 other dogs. I would never use a pinch collar at any time. Simply because it is not necessary. So it just goes to show one man's meat is anothers poison.
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I agree with you but I know that this girl could not cope without draw reins because I saw it with my own eyes.
I have owned GSDs all my life and latterly have trained, handled and judged them and this is the first one that I have used a pinch collar with. Nothing else worked and I am gradually phasing it out.
Do you compete with your dogs? What is your preferred discipline?
I feel the reason in pro yards is quite simple. They have to ride on average 10 horses a day. ( ok often another rider will warm up & cool down) However if a SJ relied totally on the draw reins what would happen when they compete? Draw reins are obviously not allowed in the ring. I believe you are correct in saying that in the collecting ring or in practice they help to keep the horse short & place to the bottom of a fence, helping them to climb & bascule using every muscle possible. If you felt they had no mouth or they felt like a plank I would suspect that you was not bending & flexing like the pro rider would do using a massive amount of leg at the same time. Don't get me wrong I do not believe in draw reins at all times. I just do not find it helpful when someone slates their use with no back up as to why they are against them.
The GSD's are trained often for agility (just another angle for pleasure & obedience) but were bought to be more of a security dog as we have a large yard with fair size acreage. I am often on my own due to shows so every night the yard checks can be quite daunting. The dogs main job involves training to protect any handler. Anyone on the other end of the leash would get the same protection should they be under threat by a 3rd party
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Well at least you have given this some thought. However.
1)An mistake made with draw reins, increases the risk of a horse fall(when jumping)
Why is this?
(because they can't get their balance due to being restricted, I've seen it at the performance sales, the draw reins were removed after this...maybe rider got a fright!)
2)if you need draw reins for control-it's your riding lacking in general rather than the horses.
Control may include for the riders safety whilst out hacking. In my book that is acceptable. (not in mine-you need to work on your horses basic schooling and training if you cannot control it without dragging it's nose in. I don't see racehorses (very fit) being hacked in draw reins..)
I can not imagine anyone that doesnt compete relying on draw reins at any time never mind all the time. Those that do compete can not use them in the ring therefore a pointless excersise if you rely on them.
(I don't understand this paragraph-a poster has said above she uses them a lot mainly for control)
I've also been on pro yards that managed perfectly well without draw reins-again if draw reins are required to me that indicates the rider is crap...
Draw/running reins are a gadget - and like most gadgets, they are a substitute for time spent on correct training. I WILL use draw reins on some rearers - until I get them going forwards enough that they don't rear - but if I had to lay my hands on mine, I couldn't tell you where in the tack room they are. It must be 4 years since I've needed them - and we get a lot of problem horses for reschooling!
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I could give lots of reasons why someone might use draw reins for jumping but in order to be consise it would help to know why people may say they are gobsmacked to see draw reins whilst jumping. What in particular to you feel is inadvisable for such use?
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Well, I've seen people jump in draw reins with no problem, but I'd be terrified of my horse somehow getting tangled up in them. That, and the fact that I don't think I'm anywhere near competent enough to jump with them on and not accidentally overuse them.
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I'm curious ell1085, is the horse on theleft a product of draw reins????(in your sig)
The sj yard you were at are getting it very very wrong.
Re: draw reins, including jumping in them.
1)An mistake made with draw reins, increases the risk of a horse fall(when jumping)
2)if you need draw reins for control-it's your riding lacking in general rather than the horses.
3)If you use draw reins all the time I can guarantee you need to re adjust your riding.
I am a firm believer in only good enough riders should use them and they will be good enough not to need them!
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He wore draw reins long before i got him and the reason he looks like that in that photo is because i was xc schooling him and he wasn't entirely sure he wanted to be going up a bank out of shot.
I don't think you've got any right to judge my riding by the fact that i use draw reins
. I use them on one of my horses and they are there incase i need them, hacking he is very spooky and if he see's something that he thinks is scary he can spin round and throw himself about. The draw reins help to keep his attention on what he's doing just because they are there. I would rather know i can get my horse in control quickly if i need to. the same with the horses on the sj yard but they also make the horses use themselves trotting up hills, we never had their chins on their chests, i was taught how to use them properly so don't judge what you know nothing about.
The jumping thing my horse is a 14yr old grade A he will stop rather than make a mistake. I'm not saying everyone should jump in them but when they are used properly they're not going to do any harm.
And to add to that if i said i needed them for control i was wrong what i meant was i like to have them in case i need extra control, i am perfectly capable of riding my horse, he was german schooled so don't be telling me he needs basic schoolong cos that's crap. I ride my horse in draw reins hacking because i feel i can reduce the possibility of an accident IF i have trouble for any given reason. There are alot of busyish roads around me and i don't wish to have my horse and myself sat on a cars bonnet. I CAN RIDE WITHOUT DRAW REINS and i do otherwise as has been said i wouldn't be able to compete. TBH i don't think i ever NEED draw reins But they help so why not use them
I will happily judge you're riding by the fact you use draw reins a lot (by your own admission). It indicates to me that you are unable to ride your horse properly so resort to gadgets..
There is only the very very odd occasion where draw reins can be any use, and it's certainly not in regular use.
Riding a horse properly makes it use itself up the hill, I don't believe from your posts that you actually understand draw reins.
There are plenty of spooky horses out there, many riders manage to control them, more work required mind.
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I will happily judge you're riding by the fact you use draw reins a lot (by your own admission). It indicates to me that you are unable to ride your horse properly so resort to gadgets..
There is only the very very odd occasion where draw reins can be any use, and it's certainly not in regular use.
Riding a horse properly makes it use itself up the hill, I don't believe from your posts that you actually understand draw reins.
There are plenty of spooky horses out there, many riders manage to control them, more work required mind.
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From your posts i don't think you understand very much. There is absolutely no way you know what my riding is like and not only that but by judging me in this way are you also saying that my former employer can't ride either? Do you honestly think i would be allowed to ride £50k horses if the people who know me thought they would be messed up? I don't know what you do or why you feel the need to be so judgmental and quite frankly rude but i think you need to stop being so small minded. My horse has always been ridden in draw reins well before i set eyes on him so are all his previous riders wrong too?
Clearly your only purpose here is to wind me up but i want to defend myself for anyone else who may read this. You sound like the kind of person who thinks they know everything so there's no point trying to discuss anything, maybe one day you'll grow up and understand that not everything fits into your little boxes of right and wrong.
ok so im not getting involved in this arguement
but freshman asked the reasoning behind my views
right
i disagree with using them ALL the time; i feel if the rider isnt riding them completely forwards ALL the time the horse will be overdeveloped in its neck, fixed and weak behind
i agree in using them occasionally; as like a reminder to the horse this is where your head should be, but only if moving from behind correctly
i agree in them for hacking if it makes the job easier and controls the horse more
i disagree with jumping in them; because i think the horse should be allowed to sort itself out and put its head where it wants to get over the jump; and if that means going on a longer stride and head up slightly then so be it
i wouldnt ride wilma in them purely for the fact that i know she would fight against them, and probably go up in the air.
i have used a bungee on her, and she was awful in it; and i was riding her forwards
side reins are a no go; she just backs off and tries to go up
personally i have a v. good instructor that has taught me how to get wilma to go correctly without using any gadgets. hard work and determination is the key; head carriage still isnt perfect but at the age of 18 and being allowed to get away with carrying her head as high as possible before we had her, its not been easy, but we are getting there and its MUCH better than when we first bought her
ive spent 2 years trying to get control and submission from wilma and you will only see me ride her in a snaffle and occasionally a martingale.
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I will happily judge you're riding by the fact you use draw reins a lot (by your own admission). It indicates to me that you are unable to ride your horse properly so resort to gadgets..
There is only the very very odd occasion where draw reins can be any use, and it's certainly not in regular use.
Riding a horse properly makes it use itself up the hill, I don't believe from your posts that you actually understand draw reins.
There are plenty of spooky horses out there, many riders manage to control them, more work required mind.
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From your posts i don't think you understand very much. There is absolutely no way you know what my riding is like and not only that but by judging me in this way are you also saying that my former employer can't ride either? Do you honestly think i would be allowed to ride £50k horses if the people who know me thought they would be messed up? I don't know what you do or why you feel the need to be so judgmental and quite frankly rude but i think you need to stop being so small minded. My horse has always been ridden in draw reins well before i set eyes on him so are all his previous riders wrong too?
Clearly your only purpose here is to wind me up but i want to defend myself for anyone else who may read this. You sound like the kind of person who thinks they know everything so there's no point trying to discuss anything, maybe one day you'll grow up and understand that not everything fits into your little boxes of right and wrong.
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I am going to disagree with you elle1085 I am not trying to wind you up as I also think skhosu is not tryint to either.
I too question why you have to resort to gadgets on a regular occurance and hence can not help but judge your riding by it.
It does not mean you are not a compitent rider however it does mean you are prepared to learn less by taking short cuts and resorting to gadgets instead of spending proper time schooling the horse, and finding out the true cause of the problem.
I certainly do not know everything however if a problem arises as they certaily do I like to find out if I can the reason why if necessary with lesson with a good instructor, all the time we are learning!
I agree there may be the odd occasion when draw reins can be of a use, however it is certainly not as a regular use.
Yes a horse can still misbehave in draw reins however they rather restrict the horses ability to misbehave hence my association to a straight jacket!
God i thought this was over right i use draw reins on ONE of my horses most of the time just as a natural thing because that is what he is happiest going in, to me it is no different to using a stronger bit but i know my horse is happy in a snaffle and draw reins. I jump him in a pelham so therefore no draw reins. He is incredibly well schooled so there are absolutely no issues i need to sort with him any problem that may arise needs to be sorted out quickly because this is a very intelligent horse who will create new problems if he is not kept constantly under the thumb, the easiest way to ensure this is to have the necessary means available if i need them. I am not suggesting that it is a good thing to constantly ride in draw reins and i very very rarely ride my other horse in them but i do know that my horse does not have poorly built muscles anywhere, he does not rely on draw reins to work in an outline they just remind him if he is suddenly faced with a newly placed road sign or the like.
I don't agree with people using draw reins as a shortcut and i don't think they should be used by inexperienced people on innapropriate horses and llannerch i your view i can except however skhosu was imo not expressing an opinion but attacking me personally.
your point about learning is slightly off the mark i have been having fairly intensive regular training on said horse for the 3 years i've owned him but there is nothing the horse doesn't know. unless you have experience of this kind of horse i don't think you can understand but draw reins are not to correct anything they are to assist.
I also think people have different ideas about draw reins set in their minds, if you've been on a sj yard where they are used frequently then they become an everyday item rather than a gadget to problem solve they are just there to stop some problems from occurring. Yes it is nice that some people have time to waste with their horses but competing is expensive and horses don't get any younger.
oh yes and why would you want your horse to misbehave? imo horses mess around in the field on their own but when they are ridden they behave if you are happy to let your horse misbehave then i would question your capabililities to train horses
I would not want my horse to misbehave, no I am not happy to let my horse misbehave however my training to date has not involved in putting it in draw reins to restrict its ability to misbehave.
I school it instead which imo does take more time but gets far more natural longlasting results.
I do not say never use draw reins just no horse should need them regularly.
I am willing to say no more on the matter and realise we have a difference of oppnion which may or may not be right.
Ok just one more thing though i agree with you in that i don't think any horse should need draw reins regularly and i have never said my horse needs them i just prefer to have them on despite the fact they rarely actually are used.
Really the end this time for me, if anyone wants to argue further then please find one of the many many other riders who use dr's regularly