Draw Reins

According to Heuschmann (2007, p 103):
Draw reins multiply the force effect the bit has on the bars, and fundamentally act to pull the head and neck in a backward direction. It's a mystery to me how a rider can tolerate such devices in a horse's training, and even accept its use at shows.'

Discuss!
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Ref: Heuschmann, G. (2007) Tug of War: Classical Versus 'Modern' Dressage. Trafalgar Square Books. Vermont.
 
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Can't argue with that...

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I thought you could argue with virtually anything?
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only if it's "virtual"
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I agree - think too many people use them to pull horses heads down and forget that they need to be going forward!

Although, what do I know, I'm an amateur! I suppose they're ok in the right hands....wouldn't trust myself though.

One thing I will say, is I'm not that accomplished and I've never needed them on a horse yet.....
 
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According to Heuschmann (2007, p 103):
Draw reins multiply the force effect the bit has on the bars, and fundamentally act to pull the head and neck in a backward direction. It's a mystery to me how a rider can tolerate such devices in a horse's training, and even accept its use at shows.'

Discuss!
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Kept meaning to PM you and see you were getting on with that book - is it worth the pennies?


Ref: Heuschmann, G. (2007) Tug of War: Classical Versus 'Modern' Dressage. Trafalgar Square Books. Vermont.

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As park ranger said, im sure they're fine in the right hands, but the right hands shouldnt need them in my opinion!!

Draw reins are a complete waste of space

Also, I read that book from cover to cover, and thought it was amazing, definately something im sure i will find myself reading again
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Why do people use them? Surely they go against the idea of tapping into the horse natural carriage and surely they destroy suppleness and impulsion.
 
I really want to read that book, haven't got around to getting it yet tho!

I used to ride in draw reins and didn't see a problem in it, I was taught by an olympic dressage rider to ride in them and believe I can used them 'correctly' however since having classical dressage lessons I have learnt how to get a horse round over its back and work correctly.Also when using draw reins you get no feel of what the horse is actually doing, its just there and dead in your hands.
 
I actually happen to think that draw reins most certainly have a place in the equine industry, all be it a limited one. I would not use them for schooling purposes - personally i just see that as laziness on the riders part and a quick fix that can go very wrong if used in the wrongs hands!! However, I have used them whilst hacking out on horses with behavioural problems - normally those with a tendency to bolt - as they seem to give an extra level of control. When i do this the DR are completely slack unless needed, so only picked up when needed.
 
Draw reins don't work for me- or, to be more precise, they don't work on A or PF. I used them a bit when I was young and foolish and I believe I still own a pair. I now understand that it's much less important what the head is doing than to have a horse engaged behind and light in front.
But I'm a SJer, what the hell do I know?
Actually, SJers seem to use them A LOT. Even some very VERY good riders
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Therefore I assume they have their place.
 
Agree 100% with this.

I ride for a love of horses and i cant comprehend using some of these horrific training aids on an animal im meant to love. The thing is, most of the time, these aids are nothing more than a short cut for putting in the time and work required to school a horse correctly. (To be fair, the result is usually very incorrect work anyway, so im not even sure they could be seen as a short cut).

The other thing people tend to not understand is that over bending can be just as much an evasion as hollow star gazing. Yet its not deemed as such by so many because the neck is essentially curled. Horses arent dumb, they work this out. If tucking their noses onto their chests makes their rider leave them alone, they'll do it.

I hate the damn things and i love the work of Dr Heuschmann.
 
Im sorry but I have to disagree, my 16.3 is very hard to get him to work "correctly" even though when he can be bothered he does it fantastic. The owner who had him before had the kick & pull attitude which unfortunatly has made him resistant and lazy, however as soon as you put draw reins on (you dont even have to hold them, just have them nice and loose) he goes off the leg fantastically and works with his forehand so light! I had no need to touch them and tug and pull on them it is just a break for my arms and his sides (I was beginning to look like popeye!).

On saying that I wouldnt trust them with an inexperienced rider or a rough rider as they will do more damage than good!

I do not agree with them being used to haul the horses head in (which I have seen recently from a "fully trained and great instructor") I agree with Gloster_Image they do have their places in the rights hands!

Btw - I am trying to wean my horse out of the kick pull way of riding as I do not agree with it and when I use DR me is engaged behind & tracking up etc. Just so I dont get bombarded with criticism lol!!
 
Personally then i would have gone back to square one.

My horse was correctly produced although he went to an eventer for two years who messed a few things up. When he came back to us, he was taken back to square one. It took a while to get him back into the mind set but it worked. During that time his front end was left alone completly. We could have used draw reins to exert more control over the front end - but there was no real reason to. There was a reason he wasnt working correctly and tackling that was the key to the rest. The outline came back over time.

That said, we've taken horses in for reschooling that were very much draw reined and rollkured horses and they are very very difficult to reschool - at least if you ever want to take them to a higher level of dressage.

I can see what a previous poster mentioned about using them on a dangerous hacker (sorry rocky's owner, i cant remember your new user name
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) but imo, theres no excuse for using them to school.
 
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And what if I tell you I used to ride a quite advanced dressage horse who had originally been competed by one of the dressage 'names', and his advice was to ride the beast in draw reins, spurs, etc?
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..his advice was to ride the beast in draw reins, spurs, etc?
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Are you quite sure he was referring to a horse???

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Stick to the topic - this post is about draw reins, not my private hobbies.
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Getting (perhaps albeit vaguely!) back on topic ... personally, I don't use them - I have no need, after all my own horse is a prime example of over use of draw reins by a rider who probably shouldn't have been using them in the first place, much less badly!

Now, he can do a fabulous impression of a horse who to the inexperienced person looks 'on the bit' and very pretty but the reality is that he's overbent with his hindquarters trailing half a mile behind him!

It's taken a long time to re-educate him and his way of going, and even now, he's still very quick to revert back to this way of going.

I'm not anti draw reins, like anything they have their place, but like any schooling aid, I am anti them being used inappropiately by people who have neither the expereience or the understanding of their use and for too long a period of time.
 
I lovel draw reins. They are most effective when used with a dutch gag, even better if you thread them through the bottom ring. Hold them a short as you can and your horse will go around really nicely with its nose on its chest.

Only I cant do dressage tests on my horse as when I take them off he acts like a giraffe
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I wouldnt doubt you for a second!

I know many many of the big names in dressage use them. However i think that is a product of the competitive sport. Riders have to produce horses to top level at a young age. They have clients who depend on this and like everyone else, they're competing for customers.

You can also go further and argue that those riders do well. The draw rein debate isnt that far removed from the rollkur debate and look how often thats seen in warm ups around the international circuit.

For ME personally, I dont have to please customers or have any pressures on how fast my own horses are produced. Ive had good results from traditional training methods; although without doubt, this is a much slower route. I dont actually mind this though. Perhaps its because of how / where I ride? I generally school on my own with no one else there. I did used to compete but since im now living here and dont speak the language, im not doing that. Everything can go at my (or rather the horses' pace).

Theres another side to it as well. I used to livery with my trainer - a former UK YR and she currently competes at GP level with a couple of horses. She runs a small yard for her own clients - people who train with her. Many of these are ladies who dont ride that much tbh, but their hobby is dressage. She is paid to not only produce those horses, but to ensure that their owners can go out on a weekend and compete them without putting in excessive amounts of work. If the horses dont perform, they would get moved and she'd lose the custom and its her livelyhood!

To combat this, she was working a few of the horses using a (somewhat watered down) rollkur like technique and drawreins. She stated she wouldnt produce her own horses this way but it was the only way to ensure that the horses did as requested at weekends.

Spurs - i dont mind these in the right circumstances. I think its important to remember that they're meant to refine the aids, not to make up for a lack of aids. For smaller riders, i think sometimes theyre necessary on the larger horses.

Dont get me wrong, i think everyone has a right to work their horses however they want to. For me though, i cant understand using things like this on an animal im meant to love and respect... i just cant get my head around it.
 
Anyone with good hands doesnt need them and anyone who doesnt have good hands shouldnt use them.

I think even some very experienced people get so hung up on where the head is that they forget about the principals of dressage. Modern dressage is such that expression, submission and impulsion are weighted far more heavily than balance, rhythm and a correct lowering of the hind1/4. Therefore draw reins dont spoil the picture for many dressage judges.

If we want to change things we have to change the judging criteria and put the empthasis back on correct training not the ability to buy the flashiest horse going.
 
Well my Adv eventer just about lives in them.It has helped her so much to build up the correct muscles and is improved 100%,and she is now relaxed forward and happy in her work.
They are not in use most of the time and are only picked up if needed.
Lizzie LC told me to ride her this way after schooling her for 3 months as she used the draw reins to help the horse.
Some people know what they are doing,i happen to know what i'm doing, unfortunatly quite a lot of people don't!
 
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Well my Adv eventer just about lives in them.It has helped her so much to build up the correct muscles and is improved 100%,and she is now relaxed forward and happy in her work.
They are not in use most of the time and are only picked up if needed.
Lizzie LC told me to ride her this way after schooling her for 3 months as she used the draw reins to help the horse.
Some people know what they are doing,i happen to know what i'm doing, unfortunatly quite a lot of people don't!

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Have you got a pic of her neck muscles?
I'm prepared to believe they may have helped you but I still believe the action of draw reins creates a false outline with an essentially braced neck, not a nice rounding from poll to tail with the mouth taking the bit forward.....
 
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Anyone with good hands doesnt need them and anyone who doesnt have good hands shouldnt use them.



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Perfectly put
 
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