draw reins

[jhoward]

have you thought its bit issues?? that looks like one unhappy horse,

im not for or against draw reins, and have used them but my question to you would be do you know how they work, the way they are MENT to work and the damage they can do?? if you cant intsantley answer thoose questions then you shouldnt be considering them.

i noticed that in one of you other post you said your instuctor struggles at 1ST... that sounds like its more rider error than horse.

 

[arwenplusone]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Very hard to answer the question without knowing you and your horse.

Contrary to others and yes I may get jumped on & I'm not bothered - I think that draw reins *can* work. But then I've also ridden in side reins and a gag on the bottom hole so don't listen to me

I would ask your instructor's view as he/she knows the horse & will be able to advise you in the best & safest way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Side reins ... Really ???!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Really. I am a terrible horsewoman, no?

In all seriousness, I would never advocate the use of them. Draw reins or side reins. But they *can* have their place.

 

[dopeesophee]

they were done in march

and her saddle was done then and reflcoked... she has had physio about a month ago... yes she is incredibly tight up front!!

i have done what u suggested with the hacking about 3 times since i have had her... it seems to make it worse as she gets tight and scatty when out hacking.!
my dg instructor always makes sure i have an elastic, soft contact but when i need it slightly firmer
!!

 

[BlackWhite381]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Very hard to answer the question without knowing you and your horse.

Contrary to others and yes I may get jumped on & I'm not bothered - I think that draw reins *can* work. But then I've also ridden in side reins and a gag on the bottom hole so don't listen to me

I would ask your instructor's view as he/she knows the horse & will be able to advise you in the best & safest way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Side reins ... Really ???!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Really. I am a terrible horsewoman, no?

In all seriousness, I would never advocate the use of them. Draw reins or side reins. But they *can* have their place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just something i would never do unless i was trying to kill myself!

 

[YorksG]

May I make a suggestion after seeing your pics? Lift your hands up a bit, a good tip is imagine you are carrying coffee cups. My mare had a ewe neck when I got her, was ridden in a dutch gag, I changed her into a french link, later into a myler comfort low port bit, and rode with higher hands than most people do. The mare has lowered and rounded and no longer has an upside down neck.

 

[arwenplusone]

lol! Then you are very wise! 'tis a risky strategy tbh.

 

[dopeesophee]

she is a new instructor... i havent had her for long... i dont think at the time i was tense but cant remember

she normally gets me 2 stretch and bend her first, then work her in a walk with a firm contact to start with.... then relax it when she relaxes... we only move up when she is working correctly in walk, doing lots of bending and lateral work

ive posted abit of a controversial post... but i am so fed up wiv her

and i cant have a lesson cos there is strangles about near us and we have closed our yard

 

[LindaW]

She looks like a lovely mare. Can I just suggest that you don't think of it as dropping? In your picture you look like you are holding her head down (maybe thinking of dropping?)

Instead try to get her to take the rein forward, look for a longer outline and a relaxed back. Head in the right place is no use if she's tense.

Once she is working from behind and relaxed over her top (both) then start asking her 'up' , thinking of the whole front end getting higher, but still with the work from behind and the back relaxed.

Millions of transitions, within the pace, circles, and spiralling circles in leg yeild. Reward for a moment of correctness and swing.

 

[dopeesophee]

yes i know that is my fault. not bending my elbows and lifting my hands... i am constantly being told that! but its hard to break a habit, but i am workin hard on it!!

 

[dopeesophee]

She looks like a lovely mare. Can I just suggest that you don't think of it as dropping? In your picture you look like you are holding her head down (maybe thinking of dropping?)



^^

thats a good idea... but i guess its bcos she carriesit so high osmetimes lol and thanks, she is when she can be bothered

Millions of transitions, within the pace, circles, and spiralling circles in leg yeild. Reward for a moment of correctness and swing.

^^
thats how i start my lessons

 

[YorksG]

I honestly think tha tworking on your hands is going to be better than draw reins, and well worth the effort. If you have a friend around when you are riding (it doesn't need to be an instructor) she can shout 'hands' when they drop

 

[dopeesophee]

ok *mental note 2 myself*

i will try that on thursday

she has had a couple of days off so that should help

 

[carthorse]

From the pics [ which are not easy to see ] her jaw is not ideal for her to be able to go in an outline. From the second one soften her laterally to the right [ use right leg and softening aids with your fingers in a contact] and then yield as she yields , this will take her into the outside contact. Then ask her to soften to the other side and yield as soon as she does. Maybe decrease the circle and leg yield out, then repeat.
Put your whip horizonally through both your thumbs ,so it improves your hand position and helps you to use your fingers to communicate with her mouth.You can do it but you must concentrate as much on your position and core strength and not about her.
Good luck

 

[the watcher]

QR,
agree with whoever it was that said to lift your hands more to waist height, carrying your hands low will not encourage the horse to flex at the poll.
When you ask her to flex down when she is warmed up, try gently bending her from side to side slowly through her neck, or working in semicircles to encourage this, rather than thinking about dropping through the vertical - and then send her forward into a soft bend to the inside.

You are asking her to use an unfamiliar set of muscles, so give her plenty of breaks and long stretches.

Oh, and no to the draw reins

 

[LindaW]

Okay, then if you start your lessons like that, then build on maintaining the rythmn and the chosen frame without holding her down. As soon as she feels flat or on the FH, then make a transitions, learn to feel for the slightest change and half halt to get her hind back under her and send her forward again.

Keep pracising and when this is consistant (this should take a while - as in weeks and weeks) start to experiment with the frame, making it longer and lower, and shorter and up. Always with swing and always thinking up into your hand - never down/drop.

It won't happen overnight, but it can be done with patience.

 

[dopeesophee]

ok

i have taken all of these things into account

and i really do need a lesson as i havent had one for a couple of months now... this would help too

i will try and remember everything and put it into practise

my sjn friend wants 2 school her in draw reins, and i am tryin not too but was really at my wits end after riding yday so i thought i might let her!!

 

[dopeesophee]

It won't happen overnight, but it can be done with patience.
^^^

yes i understand that... i have had her nearly 2 years and the 2nd pic is the best head carriage probs lol

 

[kickandshout]

maybe try a market harborough it wont be as 'fixed' as draw reins *

but ideally keep away from gadgets other than ones used for lunging only as when you take them off her head will spring back up and you will be back to square one again.

*preparing to be shot down *

 

[dopeesophee]

i dont really want to ride with gadgets... but it is sooo tempting when she doesnt behave... like yesterday ...bouncing all over the place with her head in the air and goin 2 tank off with me!

dont worry bout being shot down... i think alot of people would shoot me now i have mentioned draw reins lol

 

[curlygirla2001]

I use drawer reins - as my big lad doesnt like connection - they aid him and me with getting this, he works from behind and they arent a fix to make him 'look right' I use drawer reins as an aid for riding my horse forward into the bridle getting him between hand and leg and to keep the balance, rhythm and connection all in an upward movement... its like rubbing your tum and patting your head ! But when you have all these... your horse will be using himself correctly and therefore feel and look amazing !
All training will obviously pay off especially when trained to work correctly...

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

There's a very interesting article on draw reins in this quarter's BHS Magazine. Some influential people believe they should actually be banned on welfare grounds. Soft, round outlines come from working the horse forwards and often the WORK bit is HARD work! But strapping a horse down into an artificial outline/head carriage is surely the equine equivalent of the old Japanese custom of binding girls' feet because the fashion was for "tiny" feet. All that happened was that girls went through the most appalling pain as their feet continued to grow in the way nature intended and became twisted and tortutured beyond recognition because of the binding. This is a roundabout way of saying NO.

 

[MissSBird]

Completely off topic but it was chinese women who's feet were bound not japanese...

And I voice my general agreement. Avoid the gadgets. and good luck!

And don't give up, my first pony was 22 when first learning to work correctly.

 

[MistletoeMegan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Very hard to answer the question without knowing you and your horse.

Contrary to others and yes I may get jumped on & I'm not bothered - I think that draw reins *can* work. But then I've also ridden in side reins and a gag on the bottom hole so don't listen to me

I would ask your instructor's view as he/she knows the horse & will be able to advise you in the best & safest way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Side reins ... Really ???!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Really. I am a terrible horsewoman, no?

In all seriousness, I would never advocate the use of them. Draw reins or side reins. But they *can* have their place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just something i would never do unless i was trying to kill myself!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh for the love of god, draw and side reins are not the work of Satan, and frankly the hysteria on this forum about them is ridiculous and ignorant.

I am not a fan of them by any stretch of the imagination, and in 90% of cases where they are used by amateur riders they are used incorrectly and for the wrong purpose, but when fitted correctly, used for the correct reasons and used by someone who understands their use and has good hands then they can be beneficial.

So, please put down the pitchforks and retain some sense of calm. Draw reins were not sent by Lucifer

 

[JaneMBE]

Herbie had (has sometimes still) a ridiculous high head carriage.
I was recommended an elastic training rein (goes over the poll through the bit and attaches to either D rings or girth)
That helped and he went quite well in it, although it's a pain as it flops over (the adjustment bit sits on poll).

Fed up with accessories , I stripped him down to a copper french link bit and a fair bit of schooling, and somehow he seems to respect that better, is bringing his head down nicely and listening (not to me, to my daughter, as she rides him)

Schooling, long rein relaxed circle walking helped

 

[dopeesophee]

i have an elastic training aid....

and am researching into different bits too

she obviously doesnt like poll pressure and dislikes big bits in her mouth

would a neu sheu (sp) show ring snaffle with a barrel be a good idea??

 

[pixiebee]

[ QUOTE ]


i can get her head down, but would prefer it to be quicker and less of a fight, sometimes if she is in that mood she wont do anything i ask her





[/ QUOTE ]

no in that case!

 

[lannerch]

I think you should worry less about her head position, and more just on her general way off going, rhythm straightness and also your position.

It certainly looks like a pain issue from the picture with the pelham, so make sure you have a kind bit on eg french link, ideally myler.

If you get the above right then the head carriage will eventually follow, but rome was not built in a day.

she does look a lovely mare

 

[Silverspring]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe try a market harborough it wont be as 'fixed' as draw reins *


*preparing to be shot down *

[/ QUOTE ]

SHOT DOWN! Are you kidding a market harborough is just FIXED draw reins, you can lossen them when the horse flexes or pick them up when they go above the bit, IMO they are 100 time worse than draw reins.

Any to the OP I wouldn't try draw reins without an instructor to hand, I used them on my WB as my dressage instrucior (olympic team no less) said he needed them. However I was only allowed to use them in lessons with her as she said it's too damn tempting to get a hold of them and not let go. The longest I was allowed to hold them for was 5 seconds, she counted as soon as I picked them up! They are a tool that like all other tools can be abusive and detrimental to a horses health, however, if used correctly they can help teach a horse to flex when asked. I would ask, he would ignore, I would ask, he would ignore then I would flex the draw reins and praise him when he came back down.

In saying that before I was even allowed to get lessons my horse had to be check by the osteopath to be sure he was fit to be asked to work in an 'outline' the instrucitr then checked my saddle and bridle to be sure I wouldn't be hurting him in any way. Does your instructor go through this process or does she just turn up and teach?

 

[pixiebee]

[ QUOTE ]
ok


my sjn friend wants 2 school her in draw reins, and i am tryin not too but was really at my wits end after riding yday so i thought i might let her!!

[/ QUOTE ]

not being rude but why did you ask for advice in the first place then??

 

[JaneMBE]

[ QUOTE ]
i have an elastic training aid....

and am researching into different bits too

she obviously doesnt like poll pressure and dislikes big bits in her mouth

would a neu sheu (sp) show ring snaffle with a barrel be a good idea??

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know, I looked at them also! Herbie also hates big bits.
To be honest, the more schooling he does the better he is, regardless of what bit he has in. He was going lovely in a plain old snaffle once he realised he didn't have to thrust his neck forward and his head up! It just took several weeks really of patience and no fighting with him.
I probably have done it all wrong, but he has come on a treat this summer (insert dry laugh as summer was brief!)

He was a little better after having his teeth done also, and a change of saddle. We have taken it slowly, as he was poorly for a while and lacked any muscle/topline.

I might be brave enough to post pictures