Drawing tongue back

[Louby]

Yes Ive done this before but thought there may be some new thoughts with so many new people on here.
So has anyone ever cured a horse with a constant habit of drawing its tongue back. Doesnt appear to be trying to get it over the bit, more of a deep seated habit, like sucking your thumb! that starts the moment the bridle is put on.
Teeth fine, probably every bit that exists tried. Different nosebands etc etc.
Its such a shame as the rare moment he doesnt do it he feels lovely. He is sort of mesmarised when he does it and I think it is also one of the reasons hes so spooky as his mind is always elsewhere.
Havent tried the Hippus bits yet, just so expensive and I just cant see anything working. Oh he has to have a bit as we want to do dressage.
Thanks for getting this far

 

[xloopylozzax]

have you tried having the bit higher in his mouth??

*whispers* tongue tie possibly *runs out with tin hat on*

 

[Louby]

yep , its high at the mo.
Im not sure a tongue tie would keep it down, even vet commented on how strong his tongue is. Probably the most muscular part of his body as its definately what gets most exercise
His mouth is that active, using a flash or drop doesnt stop it, ok masks it but then he ends up with rubs as hes constantly opening his mouth. Drives me mad!

 

[planete]

I have used an unjointed rubber snaffle hung quite high but not so high as to make the horse uncomfortable. After a few weeks of relaxed hacking the horse started consistently holding his tongue normally and never did it again as far as I know. I think the key is to try and get the horse relaxed with the whole bit business.

 

[imr]

Have you tried a french link or something similar with a lozenge in the middle link? It will sit higher than a single joint bit and make the tongue acrobatics more difficult. Or one of the happy mouth style bits which as fairly flat will also sit higher. No idea if changing to a copper alloy might help too as horses tend to like them more and produce more saliva.
If a double bridle is an option get a curb with a highish port so the tongue sits under it and is difficult to pull over the top. Would also suggest looking at noseband - suspect it needs to be pretty tight and maybe fairly high if its a cavesson or flash type to shut the jaw and not allow him to open his chops which wll also limit the ability to pull the tongue over the bit.
Hth - this problem must be driving you mad.

 

[Louby]

Thanks,
I have tried a Sprenger duo in the past and still have it somewhere, so I will def try it again. I get times in walk when he doesnt do it and its lovely but otherwise its a constant battle as I can feel him lifting the bit constantly and never truley takes the contact. I want to be light but this constant fiddling from him, makes me do it back, even though Im trying not to and he then feels heavy. He does go in a decent outline but if Im honest I think its false and he isnt properly working from behind, so I get him off my leg and he rushes onto his forehand and leans but theres nothing there, if you know what I mean when I try to half halt.

 

[christine48]

Sometimes it's due to pressure on the tongue. tightening nosebands and cranking the bit up just makes them more uncomfrtable. have you tried a Myler with a slight port?

 

[Cuppatea]

maybe try a breaking bit with 'players', might give him something else to do with his tongue, or try one of these:http://www.saddlery.biz/zilco-eggbutt-tongue-control.html to try stop him doing it, but agree with planete that he's doing it for a reason and thats the key.

 

[Louby]

Thanks again,
Tried Mylers, sprenger, NS, pee wee, linked, straight, ported, pretty much every thing. Currently in a thin KK ultra with caveson noseband and have just been trying to forget about it and get on with it. Ive had him since he was just backed and he has done it for as long as I can remember, hes 13 next so I fear this is his 'vice'.
Ive got one of the tongue saver bits but it isnt big enough and they dont dell them in 5 3/4 or 6 inch . Dont think the rubber tongue dummy will do anything and I fear he would actually choke on it. Maybe Im going to have to do weeks in walk to get him relaxed and listenning to me. Its like he doesnt like the bit on his tongue as Ive even tied it up off his tongue and he still tries to do it but stops once he realises he cant. Was only a short fixed though.

 

[xloopylozzax]

how about covering the bit in honey, toothpaste or marmite to encourage him to take it? or something with keys (breaking bit)

have you tried a hackamore or similar, could be just a remedial thing so he forgets then reintroduce bit when hes relaxed with his work.

 

[Giga]

Yes Ive done this before but thought there may be some new thoughts with so many new people on here.
So has anyone ever cured a horse with a constant habit of drawing its tongue back. Doesnt appear to be trying to get it over the bit, more of a deep seated habit, like sucking your thumb! that starts the moment the bridle is put on.
Teeth fine, probably every bit that exists tried. Different nosebands etc etc.
Its such a shame as the rare moment he doesnt do it he feels lovely. He is sort of mesmarised when he does it and I think it is also one of the reasons hes so spooky as his mind is always elsewhere.
Havent tried the Hippus bits yet, just so expensive and I just cant see anything working. Oh he has to have a bit as we want to do dressage.
Thanks for getting this far

Hi Louby, my horse does this too, so frustrating. I know this was years ago but did you find a solution?

 

[Louby]

Hi Louby, my horse does this too, so frustrating. I know this was years ago but did you find a solution?

Hi, Im afraid I never did solve it. I just learnt to live with it. It has made me very conscious about my hands though and I do wonder if me not keeping a consistent contact with him being forward off my leg was my issue right at the start when he was a baby and maybe it was me that created the problem in the first place. My friends young horse started messing, she had wolf teeth out to eliminate them being the cause, has been told to nip it in the bud with a flash short term but has recently ditched the flash and has tried a bomber bit, she said she seemed better.

 

[C1airey]

I have a mare who will try to ‘lift’ the bit and fiddle with it when she gets anxious. Never puts her tongue over, but she’s definitely drawing it up. A ported Mullen with fixed cheeks (we actually use a bog-standard kimblewick with the reins on the snaffle) has helped immensely.

 

[Andie02]

Hi, Im afraid I never did solve it. I just learnt to live with it. It has made me very conscious about my hands though and I do wonder if me not keeping a consistent contact with him being forward off my leg was my issue right at the start when he was a baby and maybe it was me that created the problem in the first place. My friends young horse started messing, she had wolf teeth out to eliminate them being the cause, has been told to nip it in the bud with a flash short term but has recently ditched the flash and has tried a bomber bit, she said she seemed better.

Hello, I have only just seen this. I used to do a lot of breaking and schooling and occasionally came across similar problems to what you have described. I am attaching 3 photos of a bit that I had adapted by someone I knew who could weld stainless steel who lengthened the part of the bit that points towards the throat. Before this was adapted to the length that it is now the bit did not have the desired effect to lay the tongue down, but it worked when lengthened. Unfortunately this bit may not be big enough for your needs but maybe you could find someone who could do the same for you with a bit the correct size if you can locate one. He also did the same for me on some smaller pony bits which also worked very well and solved the problem to enable a show pony to go on and win at county level. I would suggest though allowing the horse plenty of time to get used to any such bit before getting onboard and doing some work on the lunge and long reining. I did try the rubber attachment but found it to be useless. I think that we lengthened the original short side and used the original long side of the swivel for the front of the mouth, it was a very long time ago though. Hope this is helpful. I am willing to part with this if correct size for anyone as I have been retired from horses for a long time. Please note that this is a mullen mouth.

I always had any wolf teeth removed before putting a bit in their mouth.