Dreading taking shoes off argument with vet!!

Op, as has been said there are boots and pads to help keep your horse comfortable if needed. Pads can also be devised to aid stimulation to the frog to help beef up the internal hoof structures which then allows the heels to move back. I don't know if they're appropriate for your horse but there are even wraps which your farrier can apply.
If your horse is very sore then pads can be taped as a temporary measure or for crossing challenging surfaces.

Comfortable stimulation, heel first landing and time along with the dietary changes you've made are key here I believe.
 
AmyMay - she doesn't have thin soles. The gel pack stuff she had literally went from her heel to half way down her frog. I think it was to provide a bit more of a cushion for where the heartbar sat.

I agree with you totally - I have learnt so much on this forum which is why I want to try taking her shoes off completely and seeing if we can mend her that way. I know its not going to be easy and I am not doing this because its fashionable. I am doing it because the other routes have failed.
 
Maesfen said:
Can I just point out that a hoof grows from the coronet band down and not the other way around so having shoes on should not inhibit rate of growth downward at all although they would restrict spread of course.
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But they do Maesfen


It is extremely noticeable how quickly working horses without shoes on grow foot compared to shod ones. For any particular horse it is roughly twice as fast. In my experience it is normal for a barefoot horse to grow a complete foot in 4-6 months and a shod one 9-12


The untested theory is because shoeing reduces the blood supply to the foot. I think most people agree that it reduces the blood supply (Bowker has shown this effect with doppler ultrasound) but it has not been proven that this slows growth, though it would be logical to make the connection.
 
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carolineb said:
AmyMay - she doesn't have thin soles. The gel pack stuff she had literally went from her heel to half way down her frog. I think it was to provide a bit more of a cushion for where the heartbar sat.

I agree with you totally - I have learnt so much on this forum which is why I want to try taking her shoes off completely and seeing if we can mend her that way. I know its not going to be easy and I am not doing this because its fashionable. I am doing it because the other routes have failed.
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Yep, can totally see where you're coming from.
 
OP your quote of mine is appropriate I think. (Well I would, wouldn't I :D? )

I now have almost a complete hoof through to the ground at the toe on my latest rehab case (he arrived on October 14th, so this is just over 3 months, quite astonishing!) and his reverse pedal bone angle has clearly corrected itself by building up the heels. You can see the pictures on my blog. He had been mildly lame when worked, even after a year in the field, for 4 years, but has been consistently sound since the beginning of December. He has also had wedge bar shoes in the past, which worked for a few months only.


I am so lucky, I was given him, and he is a fabulous warmblood by a Grand Prix showjumper with a wonderful character, 10 this year, and he will be staying around :)
 
My lad is the same, reverse rotated pedal bones and very under run heels, lame in shoes full stop. Taken his shoes off and he was sound all summer in boots but is finding winter very hard, tbh the look in his eye tells me he's not happy. I'm not happy with things and am thinking of calling it a day.

Good luck it isn't a easy route
 
cptrayes said:
But they do Maesfen


It is extremely noticeable how quickly working horses without shoes on grow foot compared to shod ones. For any particular horse it is roughly twice as fast. In my experience it is normal for a barefoot horse to grow a complete foot in 4-6 months and a shod one 9-12


The untested theory is because shoeing reduces the blood supply to the foot. I think most people agree that it reduces the blood supply (Bowker has shown this effect with doppler ultrasound) but it has not been proven that this slows growth, though it would be logical to make the connection.
Click to expand...
Also wear encourages growth. Hooves are not worn when shoes are applied. Once a stable work load has been established growth and wear can become balanced so long as the work is consistent, not suddenly dropped off or increased. Hooves are very dynamic and will respond to stimulation/wear but they need a bit of time to adjust.
 
cptrayes said:
But they do Maesfen


It is extremely noticeable how quickly working horses without shoes on grow foot compared to shod ones. For any particular horse it is roughly twice as fast. In my experience it is normal for a barefoot horse to grow a complete foot in 4-6 months and a shod one 9-12


The untested theory is because shoeing reduces the blood supply to the foot. I think most people agree that it reduces the blood supply (Bowker has shown this effect with doppler ultrasound) but it has not been proven that this slows growth, though it would be logical to make the connection.
Click to expand...

I think you need to add to this that the barefoot diet will have something to do with hoof growth rates too, as well as the blood stimulus. Of course all the bf horses will be on a hi fibre low sugar diet, whereas the shod horses could be on a mixture of things.
 
TwoStroke said:
Surely it's not the vet's job to tell you what to do? :confused: It's the vet's job to diagnose, and explain all the treatment options. If asked for their opinion they should give it. Then the owner decides what they're going to do. This is the relationship I have always worked on with my vet. He tells me what's wrong, and what can be done about it, then I tell him what I want him to do. I rather like it like that :).
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My vet's opnion was that I would be putting him at risk with his soles as thin as they were and the risk of hard ground. I did decide what to do - i decided to listen to his advice and delay the removal of shoes. I'm very keen to see Thursday's x-rays and know if the decision has been the correct one.
 
we had coffin joint injected twice, which led to an improvement until we started more than walk work.

2horses I disagree, we haven't re xrayed as there really is no point but given that he has gone from pronounced toe first to heel first landing and has a very different looking back of foot I think that the internal structures have beefed up so far as to correct the pedal bone angle. He also no longer has a convex profile to the front of his feet which I believe was a result of the position of the front of the pedal bone.

Using wedges only alters the angle with the ground not internally and do not encourage the heels to grow themselves. FWIW both my vet was vehmently against even trying wedges.
 
I haven't read any of the other replies but do it!!! take them off.

Much better for horses not to have shoes, they wouldnt in the wild would they!!

My horse is at full schooling livery and also competes with no shoes at all, it is brilliant :D he just has a £25 trim every 12 weeks! I know I am very lucky. I can't believe the cost of shoes now.

Thing is, vets go on 'science' which does now always mean it is right. Experience and knowledge, in my opinion, is better (for these type matters I mean, obviously not colic surgery before anyone has a go!).
 
OP - I told the vet I was going to go barefoot when mine was diagnosed with navicular, hind limb PSLD, spavin and arthritis in one fetlock - diagnosed via scintigraphy scan, nerve blocks and x-rays. The hospital vet wasn't particularly supportive, but as it was, my own vet had heard of Rockley and what they do, and had in fact had one of her client's horses go there and seen the improvement for herself (the horse's only other option was PTS). So although she thought it might be difficult for my TB she didn't totally object. The other vet at the same practice said that her soles were too thin and as she's a TB she needed shoes :rolleyes: but I went ahead anyway, starting exercise with boots and pads before taking them off completely. She had to have x-rays recently due to some more lameness (which after 3 months has now just come out as an abscess!) and the same vet commented on how thick her soles were! Good luck - it's not a cure all, but it's worth a try anyway! :)
 
To be honest, its a bit of a last chance saloon. Obviously remedial farriery has not made her sound or encouraged her feet to grow the right way.

Therefore shoes obviously aren't going to solve this problem.

Luckily horse lives at home. We have an enclosed yard that she can walk about in, a stable for her and 3 little paddocks so I can do what I like with her re: turnout etc. To bring her in from the field I can either walk her 100 yards down the road or back through the other field. We have pea gravel on half of the yard. Therefore we do have some things going for us as a starting point. And she's a tough old girl which also helps I think!!

Oh and she doesn't care what she's fed so changing her diet was easy peasy.
 
porkchops said:
You should not have to justify yourself to your vet. Just tell them you want the x-rays for the farrier to work from.
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Actually, the vet has a legal obligation to ensure the horse is not in pain. It is a legal welfare issue to keep a horse in pain. So if CB can get the vet on side, this would be far more productive, I also think that if both farrier and vet are working together with the owner, all singing from the same hymn sheet.... This is the best scenario for the horse, and provides the best chance of a positive outcome.
 
YasandCrystal said:
I think you need to add to this that the barefoot diet will have something to do with hoof growth rates too, as well as the blood stimulus. Of course all the bf horses will be on a hi fibre low sugar diet, whereas the shod horses could be on a mixture of things.
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Unfortunately I don't actually believe that there is such a thing as a barefoot diet :D Only a good diet for a particular horse.

I've seen the hoof growth rate change markedly in horses whose diets have not been adjusted at all when the shoes are taken off. While I'm sure a bad diet will easily cause slower growth, as will lack of work, there is definitely a huge effect of slowing hoof growth from the presence of a shoe.

Amanda's point that the shoe stops wear and the foot grows in response to wear is a good one.
 
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