Dream of buying an equestrian business?

[horseForce]

Just looking for some practical advice here. In the medium to long term I've always had this dream about ditching my consultancy and taking on an equestrian business where I'd ideally live on site and part run it. I'd imagine it would be a small livery yard or something along those lines with some existing liveries so I wouldn't need to start from scratch. May hire a groom or two.

Obviously, I wouldn't be looking to get into this to make a fortune and it would be more of a life style type business. If I could afford to pay myself 25k-30k per year that would be incredible but I think breaking even might be more likely which would probably mean I'd have to supplement my income somehow.

I think having only a few liveries would be ideal as I'm a one man band. 10-15 perhaps. My only anxiety would be getting stuck in and suddenly realizing it involves endless nasty stuff. Dealing with neglect / abuse / cruelty plus owners that want to casually PTS healthy horses day and night would crush me. If anyone would like to share some first hand experience of managing an equestrian business such as this that would be lovely.

 

[blitznbobs]

Do you own your own land?

 

[horseForce]

Do you own your own land?

No I don't, like I said I'd be looking to buy an existing equestrian centre or livery yard ideally with an annex dwelling.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

How many people do you know who have just casually pts a healthy horse? I have been around horses for well over 50 yrs and can't think of one person who has done that.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

There are 2 locally to me in NW Surrey currently for sale.
One is excess of 4m and the other is over 3m, both run down and currently empty. The 2nd one has sold half the grazing and has about 10 acres tops, dilapidated stables, an outdoor arena that needs ripping up and replacing and an old early 70s 40 x 20 indoor arena. Owners accom is a mobile home but they have got planning for a decent house in the front field.....

 

[Shilasdair]

Do you have any experience working in the equine industry? Or any equine or business qualifications?

And no, owning a horse, and enjoying competing don't count.

 

[Goldenstar]

Just looking for some practical advice here. In the medium to long term I've always had this dream about ditching my consultancy and taking on an equestrian business where I'd ideally live on site and part run it. I'd imagine it would be a small livery yard or something along those lines with some existing liveries so I wouldn't need to start from scratch. May hire a groom or two.

Obviously, I wouldn't be looking to get into this to make a fortune and it would be more of a life style type business. If I could afford to pay myself 25k-30k per year that would be incredible but I think breaking even might be more likely which would probably mean I'd have to supplement my income somehow.

I think having only a few liveries would be ideal as I'm a one man band. 10-15 perhaps. My only anxiety would be getting stuck in and suddenly realizing it involves endless nasty stuff. Dealing with neglect / abuse / cruelty plus owners that want to casually PTS healthy horses day and night would crush me. If anyone would like to share some first hand experience of managing an equestrian business such as this that would be lovely.

Just don’t do it .
I have no idea where you live where people put healthy horses to sleep day and night
but it does not sound like you are suited to running a yard .
I have run both a riding school and a livery yard you need to professional and highly organised you need to be able to monitor costs very well as it easy to end up subsidising for others people hobby .
It extremely difficult sometimes .

 

[Bellaboo18]

So to pay yourself 25k with just 10 horses would mean you'd need to earn £200 per horse per month profit after tax. I think if you take in to account paying one or two grooms and all other outgoings it's just not going to happen.

But I don't want to discourage dreams If you'd like to do it as a hobby, go for it!
I wouldn't share your concerns about neglected horses etc. I suppose the only thing I'd say on that is, you need to be a nonjudgmental person, theres lots of different ways to look after horses...

 

[teapot]

I was an office/ops manager for a medium sized equestrian centre. Dont do it. You have to have a certain type of strength, moral compass/ethics versus business sense approach to horses and humans. It's not fun, and I've got some experience and qualifications behind me.

As for your ideal salary, you'll need to be making one heck of a profit, and it really IS NOT easy in the industry. You would be amazed at the outgoings and costs centre have on a monthly basis.

I think working for a yard/centre, let alone running one might be a bit of an eye opener for you. I also never came across horses being pts for no reason.

 

[horseForce]

How many people do you know who have just casually pts a healthy horse? I have been around horses for well over 50 yrs and can't think of one person who has done that.

Yes, sadly I do. At a private yard (well I say private more like a bungalow with 8 stable blocks that the owners used for liveries) there was this girl who had two rescue horses. One day she announced she was going to Uni and couldn't take the said horses with her or sell them as they were rescues with some behavioural issues. Solution? Have them both lead out and bolted and cut up for the hunt, yard owners 'helped' her. No effort at all in trying to get them rehomed (I would have even taken them on) I have never witnessed such a Blaise attitude to lives of animals or otherwise.

I was furious on hearing the news and NEVER returned to that place. I would gladly name and shame all involved but that would probably result in some swift justice by the Mods.

 

[teapot]

Yes, sadly I do. At a private yard (well I say private more like a bungalow with 8 stable blocks that the owners had liveries on) there was this girl who had two rescue horses. One day she announced she was going to Uni and couldn't take the said horses with her or sell them as they were rescues with some behavioural issues. Solutions? Have them both lead out and bolted, yard owners 'helped' her. I NEVER returned to that place.

Sounds like possibly the very best outcome those horses could have had.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Sounds like possibly the very best outcome those horses could have had.

Completely agree.

OP, not every horse or pony can be rehomed for many many reasons.

 

[horseForce]

Sounds like possibly the very best outcome those horses could have had.

No, I should have been clearer. The 'behavioural issues' were subjective and the girl simply couldn't be bothered to get the poor ponies sorted. On the other hand, I knew a woman who did have to PTS a horse that would not only rear and toss a rider but swoop round and attack them. Probably clear cut in that case, but on a personal basis I'd still rather have such a horse as a field ornament if I could afford to do so. That's my opinion of course and probably a minority one. Any way, I digress.

Sounds like running a commercial yard is a tough thing. I think the smart money might be on buying an equestrian property and perhaps having a very few liveries (perhaps just DIY) with no expectation of being profit making and continuing my own business?

 

[Arzada]

Yes, sadly I do. At a private yard (well I say private more like a bungalow with 8 stable blocks that the owners used for liveries) there was this girl who had two rescue horses. One day she announced she was going to Uni and couldn't take the said horses with her or sell them as they were rescues with some behavioural issues. Solution? Have them both lead out and bolted and cut up for the hunt, yard owners 'helped' her. .

One owner PTS her 2 horses is not 'owners that want to casually PTS healthy horses day and night'. People do not casually PTS horses day and night.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I don't know if running a DIY yard would be right for you. You'll really see varying standards of care on a DIY set-up. So that might really be a bother for you.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

People don't casually PTS. However, even if someone puts down a horse that could have possibly been rehomed under certain conditions, that's really not the worst thing to happen to a horse. The horse has no idea, to be frank.

There are so many expenses annoyances with running a yard. You'd seriously have to pay me 6 figures to do it ? it's a lot of work.

 

[Arzada]

Sounds like running a commercial yard is a tough thing. I think the smart money might be on buying an equestrian property and perhaps having a very few liveries (perhaps just DIY) with no expectation of being profit making and continuing my own business?

To give you an idea my friend with a DIY yard currently has 3 owners, 6 horses = £90 pw, 1 stable rented = £10 pw Total income per week - £100.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Oo honestly you're the owner I'd want to avoid (sorry!). You'd rather keep a dangerous horse that was probably in pain as a field ornament? Sometimes the selfless thing to do is PTS

 

[AmyMay]

. Solution? Have them both lead out and bolted and cut up for the hunt, yard owners 'helped' her. No effort at all in trying to get them rehomed (I would have even taken them on) I have never witnessed such a Blaise attitude to lives of animals or otherwise.

Good for her, and the YO for helping out at such a difficult time.

Judgey, much.....

Don’t do a straw poll on here about how casually people shoot their horses, it may offend your sensibilities.

 

[Horses_Rule]

Go and get a job running a yard before you buy/ rent one. It might seem like ‘the dream’ but in all honestly it isn’t. You constantly have to deal with situations involving people and their horses that you disagree with or are unhappy with, depending on what type of livery there is always some drama between liveries not getting on. And you’ll be the one people constantly moan to if they’re not happy! Not everyone keeps and manages their horse the way you would like and so there is a lot of turning your head from things ( obviously not massive welfare issues), and it can be very lonely! And as for the wage, you’ll be lucky to pay yourself a third of that from just livery and if you have staff that comes with a whole other world of issues. It’s not for the faint hearted! I would totally recommend getting a job as a yard manager on a livery yard or something similar to see before you dive in.
I did it for 3 years with 30 odd liveries and whilst it was fun at times it was exhausting both mentally and physically, even with a cracking team behind me!

 

[Gloi]

I'm afraid you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[horseForce]

Go and get a job running a yard before you buy/ rent one. It might seem like ‘the dream’ but in all honestly it isn’t. You constantly have to deal with situations involving people and their horses that you disagree with or are unhappy with, depending on what type of livery there is always some drama between liveries not getting on. And you’ll be the one people constantly moan to if they’re not happy! Not everyone keeps and manages their horse the way you would like and so there is a lot of turning your head from things ( obviously not massive welfare issues), and it can be very lonely! And as for the wage, you’ll be lucky to pay yourself a third of that from just livery and if you have staff that comes with a whole other world of issues. It’s not for the faint hearted! I would totally recommend getting a job as a yard manager on a livery yard or something similar to see before you dive in.
I did it for 3 years with 30 odd liveries and whilst it was fun at times it was exhausting both mentally and physically, even with a cracking team behind me!

To be honest, a lot of the yards I've frequented the yard 'owners' per se tend to be extremely hands off and mostly let the places run themselves. That's definitely the approach I'd try to take if possible. If I were running a yard I wouldn't want to interfere or micromanage any one. Obviously, if there were facility issues I'd get involved but if there was a constant stream of petty bickering between Rachael and Hannah to resolve whilst running investigations on who pinched, Karens daughters birthday hoof pick that would get tiresome after a bit.

Certainly running a large, working livery centre would be way beyond what I would (or could know how!) to manage.

 

[FlyingCircus]

How much experience do you have, OP? You sound young/a little naive to the realities of an equestrian business, never mind running one.

 

[blitznbobs]

Unless you have a million Or so in the bank the chances of buying a yard and hiring a couple of grooms and making 30k a year salary on 10 boxes is dreamland... if you do have a million or so in the bank then I’d be more tempted to have a nice horse on livery and enjoy your time rather than getting involved in other people’s traumas

 

[horseForce]

How much experience do you have, OP? You sound young/a little naive to the realities of an equestrian business, never mind running one.

Care to elaborate? Not going to send you a CV here, but I have had horses in at least half a dozen yards and have worked as a groom here and there when I was much younger.

The conundrum for me has been that working in a yard is low pay stuff and I'd probably have to forget the dream of ever being able to buy my own yard if I took that path as a career. Hence, I applied myself in another industry and have done well out of it which means that buying an equestrian centre or business isn't impossible within the next few years.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Care to elaborate? Not going to send you a CV here, but I have had horses in at least half a dozen yards and have worked as a groom here and there when I was much younger.

The conundrum for me has been that working in a yard is low pay stuff and I'd probably have to forget the dream of ever being able to buy my own yard if I took that path as a career. Hence, I applied myself in another industry and have done well out of it which means that buying an equestrian centre or business isn't impossible within the next few years.

Just from the perspective of you thinking you can make 30k a year from 10-15 liveries, as well as employing staff but it doesn't seem like you're aware of any of the associated costs and likely profit margin.

Unless it's a big scale operation, most small time livery owners don't make much profit (if any in some cases!) from livery alone, especially DIY. The people who may make profit are those with a high level of qualification/impressive riding CV that are able to train/teach/school etc ontop of just offering a stable and some grazing.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I think a couple of the replies on here have been a little harsh - you absolutely won't make the profit you dream of but it sounds like you knew really that that wouldn't happen. I think the part that it sounds as though you really wouldn't enjoy dealing with would be dealing with the liveries. Hands off or not you would get petty squabbles on your doorstep, and you would be complained at that 'x' has left their horse out all winter and now the gateway is a bit muddy.

The PTS thing will always be controversial, but I would be much more concerned with the liveries who just leave their horse out in the field for 3 months and don't come up to see it once, or feel the need to whip them incessantly when riding (not speaking from experience here at all.......).

If you can run your consultancy work on a part time or remote working basis and run the yard as a hobby then I would say go for it! But if you want to be hands off I would invest mostly in a good yard manager to take the sh*t off your hands. You could also explore the possibility of running a full livery if you aren't averse to hiring good staff...

 

[FlyingCircus]

To put it into perspective to make 30k a year (before tax) you'd need to make 2.5k profit a month.

You say you want to employ staff. If you employ one person full time (and I dont imagine 1 person could cope with 15 horses full time), then to pay them NMW you would be paying them £8.70 an hour so approx 1.3k a month.

So now to pay your employee and pay yourself you need to make 3.8k profit. Divide this by 15 horses you have and that's 250 a month you need, in addition to the costs of keeping the horse on (presumably) full livery:
Hay
Bedding
Feed
Business rates
Maintenance of yard
Mortgage

It really isn't insignificant and is quite terrifying when you start looking at the maths of it...most of my YO friends don't look at the maths!! They use their business to subsidise their own horses and/or they are lucky enough to already have the land so aren't paying a mortgage on it.

Also need to take into consideration that people won't pay above going rate for full livery in your area - so you are capped in some ways by the market around you.

 

[July dreamer]

As someone who ran a DIY livery yard for 23 years I can only say don't do it! I had between 6 and 12 liveries, usually around 10. The yard was my home so I was on duty 24 hours a day. I was often asked if I could just bring in/turn out/muck out/whatever (I usually did but charged for it) but it got to the stage it was expected of me - probably my fault. You will be the one sweeping the yard/shutting gates/turning of taps and lights. You would also need to be good at fixing things, so experience of plumbing, unblocking drains, mending fences, etc. will come in useful. You will find that you are on the tractor harrowing/rolling/topping or levelling the school while everyone else goes out for a ride. But you won't want to ride because you are too exhausted anyway! And all for a wage of between £50 and £100 a week.
Of course you could pay someone else to do the maintenance but then, by the time you've paid all the bills - water, electricity, rates and insurance etc. it will actually cost you to run it.
And don't get me started on the liveries. Some are absolute gems and friends to this day, others were OK but some were an absolute nightmare.
I finally saw the light and moved to a smaller place. Now I have two friends who keep their horses here with mine, we can help each other out and I can relax.
I totally understand someone wanting their own yard but I would never take liveries again, I would suggest you find one or two friends to share a place and earn money some other way.

 

[Cortez]

I have made my living from horses for the better part of 45 years. I have done well and am now retired, but it wasn't from the horses alone, and it certainly wasn't from running a livery yard (I have run one: nothing would induce me to do so again). Quite frankly you will not be able to make any sort of decent living with horses unless you are a professional trainer/competitor, and an exceptional one at that.