Dressage breeding (edited) - lines when looking at horses for sale

LadyGascoyne

LadyGascoyne

Still Fig-uring it out...
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I’m tentatively looking at sports horses again, thinking that early next year we might start seriously shopping for one for the pro rider that we use to produce and compete on.

(I’m still wavering though due to being a bit depressed about dressage in general so not absolutely resolved, although have every faith in our lovely lovely rider)

Last time we were shopping - a few years ago now- my husband was very taken with one by Woodlander Wild Child. I haven’t actually seen much by him advertised at the moment and also don’t know how rideable they are or what sort of soundness they seem to have. Does anyone know any Wild Child offspring?

I also really like Fire Kracka, and he seems like such a lovely person too.

And then I’ve seen two very nice fillies by Kjento.

I wouldn’t want to buy a horse which was particularly neurotic and over the top, just because this is meant to be fun and I don’t want the added stress of a certifiable nutter. It doesn’t have to be an amateurs horse because we have the pro rider to manage that but I’d like to at least enjoy being around it. And I wouldn’t want to buy from lines where there is a consistent history of broken young horses. Accidents happen and horses break, and luckily we have the room for broken horses to retire, but I don’t want to put my money behind breeding more inherently unsound horses and support the ‘disposable horse’ market.

Purely an academic exercise at this point but something to keep me researching over this miserable weather 🤣
 
ihatework said:
Wild child hasn’t been out FEI, is WFFS positive and his mother couldn’t stay sound. Not genetics I’d be interested in!!
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Thank you!

Husband was very taken with the filly and keeps asking about her even two years on now but I was always concerned she was very hot. I wonder why they haven’t competed Wild Child - I did some googling based on your comment and I couldn’t find anything other than they didn’t have a rider for him, which seems a bizarre reason.
 
I would set your criteria and get a long list of stallions that suit.
From there, go through and see which ones catch your eye.
Rather than the other way around if that makes sense?

So for example, if you want UK based, fresh or chilled semen.
Competing GP themselves with a long record to show soundness?
Graded? With who?
Progeny- do you want something already proven to produce GP horses? Something with graded sons and daughters may/ should mean passing on good conformation, movement etc.

Hope that makes sense- good luck, exciting!
 
millitiger said:
I would set your criteria and get a long list of stallions that suit.
From there, go through and see which ones catch your eye.
Rather than the other way around if that makes sense?

So for example, if you want UK based, fresh or chilled semen.
Competing GP themselves with a long record to show soundness?
Graded? With who?
Progeny- do you want something already proven to produce GP horses? Something with graded sons and daughters may/ should mean passing on good conformation, movement etc.

Hope that makes sense- good luck, exciting!
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I want to buy something 2-3yo ideally, rather than breed my own.

So it’s more a shopping exercise and understanding the lines of what I’m looking at.

I really like the look of three so far, two fillies and a gelding. But I’m only planning to actually transact somewhere around my birthday in April. So purely window shopping at the moment.

I think.

(ETA, clarified the title of the thread as I had confused things)
 
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It’s all about the Dam - her conformation, soundness proven under saddle and train ability. That’s where your focus needs to be when purchasing (in addition to the correctness of the offspring itself). Also consider how the horse has been raised for the first couple of years, is it well socialised and has it been able to develop its own strength (ie it hasn’t been mollycoddled/stabled/little paddock kind of thing ….)
 
LadyGascoyne said:
Thank you!

Husband was very taken with the filly and keeps asking about her even two years on now but I was always concerned she was very hot. I wonder why they haven’t competed Wild Child - I did some googling based on your comment and I couldn’t find anything other than they didn’t have a rider for him, which seems a bizarre reason.
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He did a handful of BD tests by the looks of it, and I have a feeling he has done a bit on the continent. But he is 13 now and made zero impact on anything as far as I’m concerned.
 
@ihatework I like the dams of the three horses I’ve looked at - one I really, really like. Naming the dam makes them a bit more identifiable though so I’ve held back on that.

The dam I like the most has had a para dressage career which makes me think that might be a good balance of having a nice enough horse for our rider to really enjoy producing but also something where I could hack and do the odd clinic etc which would be an added bonus although not critical.

We are never going to be producing an Olympic candidate here but if we could ever dream to slowly produce a horse to Grand Prix over the next 10/15 years, that would be such a rewarding journey for me.
 
The para horses don’t need changes, even at grade 4 it’s simple changes. So a lot will get filtered that way if move nicely but don’t have ability beyond Adv Med.
 
Start with asking exactly what you want from the horse, how far do you want it to go in terms of its career? That should influence what bloodlines you look at, proven GP sires that are known to produce GP offspring etc. Some lines are known for producing good temperament, some not so much.

As ihatework as said, look to the dam and what she has produced, and her conformation, competition record, if she has one. Then there is the combnation of both dam and sire, in breeding, some lines are known to work well together, others not so much, for example the German D over W has consistently produced really nice horses.
 
Actually Jazz is a fairly prolific producer. But they are pro horses through and through from what I have seen. Best avoided for OP.

I’m not really the person to advise on dressage breeding, it’s not really my thing, but the one stallion who I’ve seen a few of and always thought them solid citizens is/was Rotspon - I suspect a bit old fashioned now, but you might find him on a dam line

ETA, if you find something with a little bit of C line mixed in I wouldn’t discount it
 
ihatework said:
Actually Jazz is a fairly prolific producer. But they are pro horses through and through from what I have seen. Best avoided for OP.

I’m not really the person to advise on dressage breeding, it’s not really my thing, but the one stallion who I’ve seen a few of and always thought them solid citizens is/was Rotspon - I suspect a bit old fashioned now, but you might find him on a dam line
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If I can find that article would make very interesting reading. Jazz is successful as a sire by the sheer number of foals he has sired. But if you do what % of those foals became grand prix he comes way down the list compared to a lot of other sires
 
Tiddlypom said:
What’s it about Jazz that needs avoiding 👀
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I've only known (2nd hand, not my horses) one son of his and one grandson. Absolute bargepole. There will be a lot more to it, how they were raied, kept and trained etc but these were wired to the moon without any self preservation when they went off.

Both had soundness issues too, but that can't all be blamed on sire/grandsire. Sandro Hit was in the grandsons pedigree too iirc.
 
TPO said:
I've only known (2nd hand, not my horses) one son of his and one grandson. Absolute bargepole. There will be a lot more to it, how they were raied, kept and trained etc but these were wired to the moon without any self preservation when they went off.

Both had soundness issues too, but that can't all be blamed on sire/grandsire. Sandro Hit was in the grandsons pedigree too iirc.
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I agree, Jazz and Sandro Hit are not bloodlines I would want personally, and certainly not in the same horse, but a friend of mine has just that a Jazz x Sandro Hit because she was a very cheap young horse, and it was all she could afford, the mare is now a very nice, sound GP horse. There are always exceptions to every rule, but I still woudnt want one!
 
daffy44 said:
I agree, Jazz and Sandro Hit are not bloodlines I would want personally, and certainly not in the same horse, but a friend of mine has just that a Jazz x Sandro Hit because she was a very cheap young horse, and it was all she could afford, the mare is now a very nice, sound GP horse. There are always exceptions to every rule, but I still woudnt want one!
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The jazz and sandro Hit was an amateur owner. She didn't know about the bloodlines at all and thought she was getting a bargain, bought unseen but vetted. He ended up having stifle issues too and I'm pretty sure pssm. He was very pretty!
 
daffy44 said:
I agree, Jazz and Sandro Hit are not bloodlines I would want personally, and certainly not in the same horse, but a friend of mine has just that a Jazz x Sandro Hit because she was a very cheap young horse, and it was all she could afford, the mare is now a very nice, sound GP horse. There are always exceptions to every rule, but I still woudnt want one!
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Kudos to your friend!
 
daffy44 said:
Start with asking exactly what you want from the horse, how far do you want it to go in terms of its career? That should influence what bloodlines you look at, proven GP sires that are known to produce GP offspring etc. Some lines are known for producing good temperament, some not so much.

As ihatework as said, look to the dam and what she has produced, and her conformation, competition record, if she has one. Then there is the combnation of both dam and sire, in breeding, some lines are known to work well together, others not so much, for example the German D over W has consistently produced really nice horses.
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In practical terms, I’d like a warmblood filly (but could be a gelding or stallion if the right horse in all other regards) 2-4 yo, with presence and movement but without obvious hyper-mobility. I’d like to put it with a rider who has competed at Grand Prix level (although doesn’t have a GP horse at the moment) and has great experience with younger horses, who rides professionally.

Ideally, they would be overseen and coached by their previous employer who is an Olympian (I’ve met them myself and I like them, and would trust them to be kind to my horse) and the horse would likely go onto a professional yard from the get-go but very closely managed by me, and could always come home for holidays, if there are any injuries etc.

I would be fine not to ride it at all, but if it was the sort of horse I could safely handle or even hack or do the odd clinic or lesson with down the line (once established), then that would be an added bonus. What I don’t want is a horse that everyone, including me, dreads dealing with or that constantly seems like it’s about to panic and hurt itself or someone else. Life is too short!

I think what I’d really like, for me, is to have the same sort of journey as we have had with my Mimosa, only the more grown up version thereof. We have put so much time and effort into developing Mim to be the best version of herself she can possibly be. Her type is squarely in the leisure horse bracket, not the sports horse bracket but I really couldn’t wish for a better leisure horse. We have really timed everything that we’ve asked of her carefully, and in line with her own confidence and development, and she’s risen to everything we’ve asked beautifully and happily. It has been a joy to go from weird looking gangly 2yo to being able to take my 8yo to the pub and do a lovely dressage lesson in the same weekend.

I’d like to take that same framework of consistency, time, patience and building to the pace and capability of the horse in front of me, but start with a blank canvas in a dressage-bred horse.
 
Legrande seems to breed nice natured horses that move well. My Bon, Amber's Echo's Mylo and Myla. Sensitive but not ridiculous or obnoxious. Alternatively if you fancy a really cool colour, Bon's full brother Tresaison LeLuka is entire, has foals/youngstock on the ground - very impressive pedigree on both sides, and is spotty!
 
I’ve just been looking at AE’s post, Legrande is beautiful. Not ridiculous and obnoxious is very high up on my list.

There is one filly which I think I might go and see which is Kjento X San Amour X Don Schufro

(which of course means Jazz lines, Sandro Hit lines and DS is WFFS + too - so I’m probably doing exactly the wrong thing but I reaallly like the dam)

I’m hopeless! I was meant to be shopping next year!
 
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I mean, I say not obnoxious, I've moved to a part livery basis and he's pretty convinced he's a prince and has staff now. But he gets away with it as he's utterly charming
 
LadyGascoyne said:
I’ve just been looking at AE’s post, Legrande is beautiful. Not ridiculous and obnoxious is very high up on my list.

There is one filly which I think I might go and see which is Kjento X San Amour X Don Schufro

(which of course means Jazz lines, Sandro Hit lines and DS is WFFS + too - so I’m probably doing exactly the wrong thing but I reaallly like the dam)

I’m hopeless! I was meant to be shopping next year!
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Personally I dont mind Jazz as long as he is third generation or further back, I do actually have a horse with Jazz in the third generation and hes a sweetheart, not remotely Jazz like, so I'm fine with him in a pedigree, if he isnt too prominent, but I'm afraid I really dont want Sandro Hit in there anywhere, but thats only my opinion. Don Schufro I love, but I am a fan of some of that old fashioned solid German blood, as I'm not a fan of the hyper mobile spider legged type of dressage horse.
 
What I know about dressage breeding could be written on the back of a stamp but I do know of a reasonable number of LeGrande babies and would say all the ones I know of would fit your requirements for temperament and again the ones I know of don’t seem to randomly break down any more than the average horse on the street. No idea how proven he is in terms of them making it to GP though.
 
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