Dressage - can trainers warm horse up?

Wagtail

Wagtail

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I am talking low level unaffiliated dressage. One of my liveries wants me to warm her horse up for her as she is very strong and nappy. Is this allowed?
 
I think under BD rules it is fine unless an area festival/regionals or nationals - didn't someone ask this the other day?
 
If a show runs under BD rules how could they not allow something BD does allow?

I can understand the other way around, say relaxing dress rules, giving a competitor extra time to start if they're having a problem, ignoring a little outside assistance etc. in the spirit of encouraging people.

Given it's UA it's definitely worth asking but if they secretary says it's not allowed under BD rules - which is what A LOT of people think - then it might be worth pointing out politely that isn't actually the case. (It was the same in North America - there was a big fuss at a show where a pro warmed up a rider's horse, only for everyone to be a bit shamefaced when they found out she was right and everyone else was wrong.)

Whether you agree with the rule or not is a different subject, but I say use what's legal if it helps the horse and rider, particularly while they're in a crucial learning stage.
 
Interesting I always thought BD rules mean't no one else could warm the horse up.

I know at a local unaff show I was at someone complained quoting BD rules

so now we know
 
Was at a local trailblazers dressage comp (1st rounds) & they eliminated a competitor who had let someone else warm up her horse as it wasn't allowed, so I would check with venue xx
 
Wow, there you go, I learned something today!
If it's allowed then go for it. FWIW I once got told to remove my neck strap at a BE event which I did (even though I knew the steward was wrong!) from then on I kept a copy of the relevant page from the rule book in my pocket ;)
 
I was eliminated a couple years ago for having my trainer partly warm up my horse for me. This was at a unaffiliated dressage comp at a big comp venue that does BE events too. I only needed my trainer to sit on her cuz I hacked there for 35mins then needed a small break to go get my number and calm my nerves before getting back on. Trainer kept horse warm in the mean time. Two competitors complained and got me eliminated - I would have been 2nd out of a big class.

After that we looked at the rule book as the elimination stated under BD rules and as others have said, it is only against the rules for regionals/nationals! So we complained strongly to the show organiser that they didnt even check the rule book. She finally agreed that I shouldnt have been eliminated but said morally it isnt right... So she said my next entry would be free but I never ended up using it because the whole thing annoyed me. It took about a week to sort out and that included calling BD who said they dont like their rules being quoted incorrectly and would have a word with the venue if we couldnt get it sorted out.
 
Not that is excuses the above but it is true for BE, which might be part of the confusion. (Although even that isn't as simple as it seems because, as discussed here previously, FEI events get around it by "starting" at the last possible minute, after horses are already on site, so trainers can and do ride horses while they are in situ.)
 
I thought that at BE other people could ride the horse (eg a groom keeping a horse ticking over whilst waiting for the rider) so long as they rode in walk and trot only on a long rein, ie they don't 'work' the horse at all.
 
I dont know if the show organiser ran the BE events there too but I think she now knows to refer to the rulebook before eliminating under BD rules now. Although a month or so later I was grooming for a friend and he complained about someone being taught in the warmup. The lady literally had her trainer in the middle of the arena giving her a lesson as she warmed up. Show organiser went away to find out if she should be eliminated and came back saying she couldnt see anything in the rulebook and that if its ok for a horse to be warmed up by a trainer then being taught in the warmup shouldnt be a problem... When infact it was against the rules! It was only unaffiliated so didnt bother taking complaint further.
 
JoJo_ said:
I was grooming for a friend and he complained about someone being taught in the warmup. The lady literally had her trainer in the middle of the arena giving her a lesson as she warmed up. Show organiser went away to find out if she should be eliminated and came back saying she couldnt see anything in the rulebook and that if its ok for a horse to be warmed up by a trainer then being taught in the warmup shouldnt be a problem... When infact it was against the rules!
Click to expand...

Is it against the rules? (That isn't intended to sound contradictive I just haven't a clue about all these rules! :p ) Surely the organiser was right in saying if it's ok for a horse to be ridden by trainer then it's ok to be taught in warmup?

Also, how would you draw the line between a 'lesson' and the trainer giving some advice and generally helping to warm the rider/horse in? I went to the unaff U21s champs last summer for fun as I'd qualified, and loads of people there had their trainers helping to warm them up, and at the pc dengie champs lots of people were being given mini lessons before their test.. same at the summer area dressage! I can see perhaps it's different for pony club, my trainer came with my pony club for the areas a couple of weeks ago and helped everyone warm in individually... surely this sort of thing isn't against BD rules?
 
Thistle said:
I thought that at BE other people could ride the horse (eg a groom keeping a horse ticking over whilst waiting for the rider) so long as they rode in walk and trot only on a long rein, ie they don't 'work' the horse at all.
Click to expand...

Are they allowed to trot now? This is one that keeps changing. I know grooms used to be allowed to trot, mostly to get horses from place to place, but then someone (maybe a team) had a VERY good rider "disguised" as a groom at one event and he basically warmed up all the team horses very effectively without taking up the reins just by puttering around, turning this way and that . . . There's always an angle. So then it was only in walk, only obviously not schooling. I actually got nailed for this when I was a working student during the time it changed.

No offence to the above comment but I'd be very surprised if BD says no one can be taught in the warm up! That's not a rule anywhere else and it's rare for FNs to set more stringent rules than the FEI. And you'd have to eliminate a lot of people! There may be a rule that you can't be unmounted in the main areas of the warm up, but even that's hard to police. There definitely is a rule against outside assistance so if the trainer was still talking to her while she rode around the competition ring, then definitely she'd be in trouble. But even that one gets bent all the time at UA. ;)
 
I am pretty sure you are allowed trainers in the warm up for BE and FEI eventing (otherwise I am pretty rubbish steward, oops!). I don't see a problem with having trainers in the warm up. I have seen it at PC championships too. Some people are so pedantic!
Riding the horse is warm up is another kettle of fish, but if it's allowed for BD, although it's not for BE.
 
I'm glad this has been brought up.

A week ago I called the organisers of an unaf. RC show to obtain permission for me to warm up someone else's horse. She is quite nervous and it was the 5 yo horse's first outing. I was told it was fine. We even asked for the earliest time to keep out of everyone's way incase it went pear shaped!

Horse warmed up perfectly and I had a few comments of "She shouldn't be on the horse" and so a different organiser came over to say it wasn't technically allowed but would let it off just this once. I said I'd asked for permission and it hadn't been written in the rules they'd printed on the entry schedules. They said they ran the shows in line with BD and therefore it wasn't allowed.

Therefore, if BD does allow it but BRC don't, shouldn't the organisers at least make it a bit clearer what they actually mean?! I think the problem is the organisers were a bit clueless themselves.

I do find it a shame they don't seem to care about making it a positive experience for a young horse, it wasn't as if my friend was pot hunting! She even offered to go HC when they complained... ridiculous as this was her first ever dressage test in her life at the lowest of the low shows!
 
I'm amazed that is a rule - doesn't seem very sporting! But apparently it is OK - just checked on BD website.

http://www.britishdressage.co.uk/about_us/faq

Can my trainer warm up my horse?
Yes, except in winter, summer, music regionals and championships when no-one other than the competitor may school the horse from the saddle for the duration of the show, except for disabled classes grade I and II.

That's the second time today I've been confused by BD rules.
 
Found the rule about being taught in the warmup. Not sure about BE rules but this is the BD rule:

"Trainers or other pedestrians should not stand in the collecting rings or practice areas/arenas and should minimise disruption to other riders when helping their client."

IMO someone on a 20m circle in the warmup with their trainer in the middle shouting instructions to them is more than a minimal disruption to everyone else.
 
Copied from the BD rule book
58. Warming up
While exercising any horse, whether competing or not, at an affiliated dressage competition it is permissible
to use only the saddlery allowed for affiliated dressage competitions, i.e. a suitable saddle and either a
double bridle or snaffle with a cavesson, dropped or flash noseband for the duration of the competition.
Horses competing in Novice and Preliminary classes may only warm up in snaffles.
Introductory/Preliminary – Novice Snaffle
Elementary – Advanced Snaffle/Double bridle
Boots, bandages, neck straps and whips are permitted when warming up at any level.
The rider must wear headgear as per Rule 43. Riders who are visually impaired may wear white
armbands whilst warming up so that other competitors know to give them enough space.
Lungeing – the lunge rein must be attached to the bit or cavesson and two reins are permissible. Side
reins may be used, but not running or balancing reins etc. The rider may be mounted while the horse
is being lunged and may hold the reins. Permission to lunge must be obtained from the organiser who
may designate a specific area.
Warming up in anything other than the permitted saddlery (unless specified above) will entail the
elimination of both horse and owner/rider from all classes on the day, and a fine of £25. Anyone seeing
this rule being breached, should immediately report the occurrence to the Organiser or Secretary, who
will be empowered to enforce the elimination.
In Summer, Winter, Music Regionals, Area Festival Finals and Championships, no-one other than the
competitor may school the horse from the saddle for the duration of the entire show, except for para
classes for Grade I & II riders. Exercise by means of walk on a long relaxed rein may be given by
another rider under supervision of the steward (who should be notified).
If a warm up arena is becoming over crowded those not competing on that day may be asked to
leave the arena.
N.B. If, at any time during a competition run under British Dressage Rules, a horse is seen to be behaving
in a dangerous manner which could threaten the safety of other competitors or spectators,
a Steward, Organiser or Regional Development Officer is authorised to request the removal of this horse
from the area. Stallions may be identified by the rider wearing a yellow cross band whilst working in.
For details regarding Riding In, see Rule 72.
72. Riding in Collecting Ring or practice areas/arenas
In order to extend courtesy to other riders and to prevent accidents, it is customary to practise the
following conduct:
a) Pass left hand to left hand when meeting another rider coming in the opposite direction unless he/she
is in counter canter in which case you should give way by circling.
b) Make tack adjustments outside the arena if possible or near the middle of the arena but without
obstructing the diagonal or centre lines.
c) Announce that you intend to enter an indoor practice area to avoid an accident.
d) Ensure your whip is not so long that it could upset a passing horse.
e) Do not halt or walk in the outside track but always leave room for other riders to pass.
f) Do not lunge in practice areas without the permission of the Organiser and only if there is sufficient
room so as not to cause inconvenience to other riders.
g) Trainers or other pedestrians should not stand in the collecting rings or practice areas/arenas and
should minimise disruption to other riders when helping their client.
h) Riders with impaired vision may wear a white armband whilst warming up as an indication to
other riders.
 
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