dressage critique

[not_with_it]

I would love some critique on my two year old. Ive been watching him lately and im just not sure about him. I bought him as a dressage horse and on paper he should be good

. I keep watching him and wondering if hes got what it takes. I love his body. Its compact and powerful. His hocks are a little straight but he flexes them and tucks his bum right under. I just dont like his neck. Its set on very low and dips just infront of the whithers. It looks like a TB neck on a WB body. Im not convinced it will massivley improve when he gets a topline and I think it will really let him down.
Feel free to rip him to pieces, I promise I wont be offended.

 

[amandathepanda]

To be honest is is difficult to tell much from the photos. I do think a topline will make a huge difference to him - in the first photo where he was going through a ribby phase his neck looks worse than it does in the photos where he is carrying more weight.

In the first photo he does appear to be able to use his hind legs - he is tracking up nicely even though he isn't going particularly forwards which is a good starting point on any dressage horse. I bet his paces look more impressive when he is going more forwards!

In the current market I would be inclined to start him in the new year, see how he responds to training & how he 'feels'. If you decide he isn't for you then you will get more for him if he is started than unbroken.

I do feel you maybe being a little harsh on him - remember as they grow they do go out of proportion & gangly at times. Some horses are real ugly ducklings when they are young but once they are in work & have a decent amount of muscle in the right places they look like a different horse. If you are to get the most out of your horse you actually need to *like* him, otherwise you will never really click with him.

 

[pinktiger]

im not going to be critical of the pics, its hard to get a true impression on dressage scope from a couple of photos,,, all i would say is as a general stamp his hind looks ok even if hes hollow, and can only improve once working over his back!! a good indication would be his walk (good walk, good canter)(trot can be improved on easily unlike the walk and canter), in his over track and four beat!! Its so hard to tell at this stage an awful lot can be done with topline and correct work and he/she will change so much in the next 12 months, they go through stages and the 2yold isnt generally the most
attractive!

 

[BigRed]

He looks like a nice looking young horse, his neck conformation only looks poor because he is what the Germans call "still in physical development". Give him some time and don't be tempted to stuff him with food. Let him stay a little on the lean side, it is better for his limbs in the long term.

 

[Touchwood]

I would give him time....don't ever look too critically at 2 year olds, its a rare one that will look anything like it will as a grown up!

 

[Divasmum]

When he matures and gets the correct ridden work his neck will improve. He is still very much a baby at the moment which is the right way to be for his age!
What are his bloodlines?

 

[Bossanova]

He isnt an ideal stamp for dressage but he's got a lot of maturing to do so I wouldnt write him off as a higher level horse yet- so much is in the trainability anyway. He has quite a high, well defined wither which doesnt help the appearance of the neck atm but I suspect it'll look better 8under saddle

 

[carthorse]

He will still change alot , his hindlegs are very straight which would worry me a bit , but maybe it is how he is standing.

 

[not_with_it]

Hes by Baroncelli out of a state premium Lauries Crusador mare.

Carthorse, he is straight through the hock but he really flexes them when hes working so im not overly worried about them.

Panda, I do *like* him and sometimes I love him but I want to be realistic about him. If he isnt good enough he will be swapped for something that is. Some days I watch him and get really excited about him but Im not emotionally attached to him yet. I have to admit that his neck is worrying me.

In my mind I know that once he muscles up he will look fantastic and one day he will make someone a great horse, im just not sure if that someone will be me.

 

[carthorse]

I wasn't worried about his hocks in a movement way , more from a strain way. I think sometimes they can put too much weight and strain on their hocks, just build up slowly and be aware of strain.
I bet he will be lovely as a 4 year old

 

[kirstie]

I wouldn't worry at all. My youngster looked very similar neck wise as a 3 yr old, completely different now she has been in work for a relatively short period of time. They always say that horses are at their 'most ugly' as 2 yr olds anyway!

 

[Partoow]

For me he is a little low set and tied in the neck . He also is a little upright in the shoulder and lacking in freedom in the front.
he has a good saddle position.
His forelimb looks good but he does look a little straight in the hock but his bone does match his body well.
i think if he was too come up in the Futurity for instance he would be regared more a an eventing type and actually from his breeding he would be ok [LC is TB used a lot in german breeding and very nice]
2yr olds do look at their most ungainly , so if that is the case he will improve. I always look for horses that grow out of the wither as this improves freedom of movement in the front a a more natural desire to be up 'hill'. Saying that there is no such thing as the perfect horse and temperament is so important as they have to want to work for you, you couod hevr the most stunning conformation in the world but if it does'nt want to work then its not worth a fig!!

 

[mik]

What do you mean by good enough? At what level are you aiming? All sorts of horse make it up to gran prix level, some excel others become schoolmasters. Ask yourself what are you looking for in a horse and what made you pick him?? Its hard to tell at 2 years old, he is growing and gangly. I agree with the above critiques especially partoow, the most important thing at this age is his temperament. Its normal to feel up one day and down the next about horses, until you have done so many that your patience expands and you give them time to develop their 'talents'. It wont hurt to start him off slowly and gradually make decisions, all youngsters start with an all round education, so if you are not impressed as he progresses bear it in mind that he would sell as event material, you wont lose pennies that way. Give him a chance IF YOU LIKE HIM, dont expect a superstar at 2yrs old and remember superstars can be ****** hard work to handle. Best of luck.

 

[not_with_it]

Thanks for the comments. I spent some time looking at Baroncelli and Lauries Crusador last night and both of them are straight through the hock too. He has a good walk and canter which I believe LC passes on. He learns so quickly too. From a training point of view hes great to work with but in the back of my mind there is just something about his neck thats making me think he will struggle to get that uphill appearence (if thats the right word) as his training progresses.

 

[not_with_it]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you mean by good enough? At what level are you aiming?

[/ QUOTE ]

I want something that will find the work easy. As lovely as my mare is she has a very weak canter which has limited her training. She doesnt find the work easy but she can do all the movemets. Being realistic she will ot go advanced. The plan was to buy a youngster that will train on and let her have an easier life style, although that plan may have come sooner than expected due to back issues.

[ QUOTE ]
Ask yourself what are you looking for in a horse and what made you pick him??

[/ QUOTE ]

I liked his canter and he was the only one I could afford

I do like him and he has moments when I think WOW, usually when hes having a naughty moment which TBF doesnt happen very often.

 

[mik]

Ok better, now I get where you are coming from, he has good breeding, good temperament and wow moments, so give him time, the neck will change a little and build up as he matures (i guess he is gelded already?). I think if you accept he is yours and now begin to work with him, not too much as he is a baby, the satisfaction from teaching him will get you motivated, whilst allowing you to wait until he matures. Most of the baby warmbloods I have had mature at about 6yrs old. Unless you have seen something else you want, can afford and feel has a better future, and are itching to get going, then try to give him time, especially if pennies are a limtiing factor, arnt they always. Horses not naturally uphill do have a disadvantage but can learn to work correctly. Groove jet from Hester,
http://www.spencerwilton.co.uk/Portals/0...n%202002-ds.jpg
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competitionnews/article.php?aid=150301

(in his book he analyses shape and form, (real life dressage, novice to grand prix))
is a VERY similar shape, Hester says, (remember groove jet is 17.hh+) that it is hard for him to come up off of the forehand but Groove jet (Hector) has a great hind leg action, yours looks like he moves OK, and when he learns suspension it will lighten his forehand and free his shoulders. Yours has a more compact body, lots of power!!! Every horse you buy will have a problem. Maybe the back problems in your mare have made you feel a tad impatient and more unsure of yourself. I hope you do what feels right for you, but if hes a nice lad i'd be loathe to sell him on now in this economic climate. Best of luck, give him a hug from my two laddies, and happy xmas!

 

[not_with_it]

Thanks thats a great help. I'll try to get a video of him on the lunge. When hes forward he really bounces along. Hes going to be big and im not, so the easier he finds the work the better. Spencer liked him when he first came home, the first pic, and hopefully he still will when hes being ridden.

 

[milliepup]

Hi there,
I think you are spot on it's very straight in the hind leg, it doesn't have the best shoulder as it looks very upright and the neck does look to dip in front of the wither instead of coming out of the wither it also looks quite tight under the neck. 2 year old's aren't the best to look at as others have pointed out but if you are serious about dressage horses Lauries Crusader definately throws more tb type horses which is what yours does look like but saying that depends what level you are aiming for.
I would be interested to know more about what you saw in him when you bought him and where he is from i.e. uk or abroad. I breed for a living so pm if you would prefer.