Dressage disappointment

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daydreambeliever

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I feel a bit fed up with what i feel is biased judging. Went to a comp at wknd and i didn't expect to get placed, my horse is a nose poker, working on a better outline but it takes time, what i did expect was fair judging and helpful encouraging comments, it was a RC unaffiliated
restricted prelim after all. I came away thinking i should never bother trying again! My horse was obedient and did all the right transitions and gaits at the correct markers, but he did have the wrong bend, nose poked and other suppleness issues. Yet another rider who went around with horses head too high for most of test and failed to get a nice transition into right canter and then failed to get the correct lead at all and halfway around circle fell back into trot and finished remainder of right lead canter in trot, well they gained 24 more marks than me. How! Is it more correct to not do the movements at all than to try and do them with limited style? Is there any point in trying?

Chocolate if you made it this far, fresh fruit if you have had too much Easter choccie :-)
 
I once got a terrible mark as my mare wasn't a warmblood and the judge obviously didn't like her. No real comments on her sheet, just low marks. One of the rosette winners was unlevel on a circle too.
Nothing you can do, note the name of the judge and try to avoid in future.
Sometimes you get on the other end too tho, a judge who really liked her gave us a 6 and an 'Energetic transition' comment when she fly bucked into canter at c!
 
Guess i must just be a sore looser, as no one felt the need to comment. Forgot to mention that judge and other rider are both part of the team that run the RC!
 
Talk to the judge! Always!i am surprised how few people do this.Vast majority are always happy to help & explain as they love dressage.Just don't be aggressive, ask questions about where you went wrong, what was good, what bad,etc.
 
A dressage trainer/judge did once say to me that a movement with incorrect bend shouldn't be scored higher then a 5. So if the other horse had correct bend even without correct outline could still score a 6 etc, as mentioned above, if possible ask the judge where you went wrong. But most of all don't give up! X
 
Don't give up!

Might be worth looking up the judge if they are bd registered they will be listed on their site if not well make your own judgements as to what makes them qualified to judge.
 
i know how you feel, last year i did a in hand breed class with my horse it was very low key but had qualifiers but as minsterly was the day before there were only two other horses in the class
one which looked like a hunter
and another which was too imature for the mature class and hadnt grown properly
My horse performed like a true section d head and tail held high and was walking ahead of me and did his best ever trot i nearly fell over he was going that fast but anyway i was placed last and when i asked the judge if there was anything i could do better she turned round and said he had swollon joints and splints now i am a training to be a equine vet and i know what splints and swallon joints look like any way heres some pic of my boy - at the show/home and the other horses :)

http://photoskill.biz/?Action=VF&id=6729274202&ppp=0&ppwd=83896grv
at the show

http://s1171.photobucket.com/albums/r556/banna990/?action=view&current=IMG_0244.jpg
at home

http://s1171.photobucket.com/albums/r556/banna990/?action=view&current=Photo-0044.jpg
at home

http://s1171.photobucket.com/albums/r556/banna990/?action=view&current=Picture026.jpg
at home

http://photoskill.biz/?Action=VF&id=6729270602&ppp=0&ppwd=83896grv
hunter look a like

http://photoskill.biz/?Action=VF&id=6729269802&ppp=0&ppwd=83896grv
baby horse

I think the judge was friends with them as in two other classes the same people won - low level show with qualifiers bit of cash in hand - :)
 
I went out to an affiliated event last week only did the prelim as i am not registerd BD. I was so pleased with my little horse however i was disapointed with his mark just over 60% he did jog going into the walk but i felt as a whole he did a good test and there wasnt really any marks on the sheet to give a reason for the low marking. It was particularly disapointing as 2 weeks prior to this competition we went out to another venue this to was affiliated and he won with 68% and even tho the mark was alot higher i felt this test was not the best of the 2. My horse isnt your typical warmblood type and doesnt move amazingly however i feel we are capable of doing a decent test and its difficult to understand the difference in how judges mark
 
Dressage is about having your horse working correctly as much as its about doing the right thing at the right place. So the fact your horse doesn't bend & nose pokes isn't balanced by doing a transition in the right place. So perhaps the most constructive thing to do is to look at your sheet & see where it is you need to improve. Even if that judge is biased towards the person that won, you can still come second. If you really feel she's biased compete somewhere else.
 
The thing is i don't think my marks are particularly far out, a little on the harsh side maybe as he had a nice rhythm and even foot fall and tracking up, i wasn't expecting 7,8 and 9s. Just surprised that another similar rider who didn't complete the tasks did so much better. It interesting what you say shortstuff99 as i was marked a 4 for my canter work. Thank you all for your replies and encouragement, i will continue will our schooling but steer clear of the any comps for now especially RC ones.
 
The worst marks we have ever recieved and I have ever written are at unaffiliated competitions. RC and PC tend to use people who have not done the training so the standard tends to be uneven. I would always go of possible to a bigger centre with two arenas and ride a test for each judge so you get a rounder opinion of how you and the horse were on the day.
You have to rember its a competition and not a lesson( there is only so much you can say/write in the time alloted) and you should be aiming to be working at home at a higher level than you compete at.
 
I think at RC stuff, you have to expect not-amazing judging sometimes. I've had many times of utter disbelief! I remember getting 86% in a prelim on my 4yo Welsh Cob a few years ago, the cob wasn't very balanced, almost fell out of the ring a few times, head was busy being up in the air whilst he was neighing into the distance at a buddy and we were pretty lazy with doing things on the markers. To get such a massive percentage was quite frankly embarassing... but then the horse looked particularly pretty (big black Welsh Cob with white socks) so I guess the judge just liked the look of him! Its depressing to get that though because its not helpful!

At the end of the day judges all look for something different to a degree, I guess it depends what your horse has. I do think that subconsciously it must be very difficult for a judge to NOT be biased over certain looking horses or certain "named" riders. I think its just human nature at the end of the day. This is why I hate dressage, go jumping - no opinion involved in that ;)
 
I must admit I am yet to come across the bias towards warmblood marking. I have a very plain 14hh cob who gets very good marks at affil and unaffil and has competed with wins up to medium. It's about correct training and a good judge will judge accordingly. He will never have amazing medium paces but judges see a difference from his working paces.
I have to play to his strengths and a windy spooky day is great for me as the flashy horses have a good spooky.
Don't lose heart, perhaps go to a show with BD registered judges next time. Or have a lesson with a judge to see where you can gain marks.
We can only do our best, and a better horse on a good day will beat us every time.
 
Sometimes the judge is looking for things we overlook or don't consider as important as other things. My two nieces both competed on the same pony, in the same class. The youngest sister went first. She hardly ever rode on the track and her circles were all too small. Especially at E and B. She did however keep the pony in a nice rhythm throughout the test. The elder sister was much more accurate, but pushed him out of his rhythm on occasion and he hopped once or twice in trot. On the whole I thought the elder sister rode a better test but the younger sister was placed higher.
 
Also don't forget that it is marked per movement. So if the other rider had severe issues with right lead canter this will only have affected one or two marks and if the rest scored one more mark that you that would likely add up, particularly for the FWLR which is x2. :) And yes often each judge has their own preferences and bugbears which might well make the difference ;). I have only ever been marked down for BTV by affiliated judges, never unaffiliated for instance.
 
Paris 1- agree entirely about the marking, I've done similar with a 14.2 conniex tb. I've never once felt I'd been unfairly judged for not having a warmblood. I never got placed in the few mediums I've done, but that was purely down to the fact neither of us enjoyed putting in the work to get to that level, not because of bias judging about her non-warmblood paces. If anything, I found the judges very positive about seeing a pony. I also agree re the windy day- the very first time I did an unaffil elementary, the warm up was outdoors in high winds, we came 2nd with 58% lol!
 
Its not a secret that dressage is subjective and thus often unfair! even at the highest levels. Writing for different judges I realised that especially at lower levels they just go by how they feel the horse and rider look overall, especially if the rider rides positively even when horses throw a bit of a fit. And so many times judges will have a favourite breed or pair, or know who the competitors are and mark unfairly! But at the same time how can you mark harmony objectively? I think its always good to get some feedback, and pick out the helpful comments if there are any!
 
I've done a lot of writing for judge's recently and it is really inspiring. You learn a lot and realise why the 'pretty horses' don't always get highly placed.
Try and talk to the judge after the class to get feedback and maybe try and do some writing, you learn so much.

You say the other rider had trouble in canter, this may have only affected a few marks so whilst she would have lost marks here she may have gained marks in other areas.
The main thing I have found that judge's look for at prelim level is a happy contented horse with basic training - working softly with an importance on suppleness and correct way of going, correct bend etc rather than just foccusing on where the head is. If your horse wasn't supple and had incorrect bend this will lose you lots of marks.
The other horse may have messed up the canter but if working correctly, softly and supple would have gained lots of marks for this. Things like free walk are normally a double score so if the other horse did a cracking free walk once you double that mark the marks rack up, same for collectives.
 
I'd love to know where you were competing. I've had some odd unaff judging tbh - in both directions :eek:

One of my personal faves was getting an 8 for a movement I didn't even perform :D Plus a few judges who don't seem to appreciate that my highland is conformationally unlikely to express "big" paces, and a few who seem to think he's the best thing since sliced bread despite nose poking and general youth / lack of dressage skill.

I really must take him out again, but the unaff judging is so odd I can't motivate myself :o
 
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