Dressage Diva Tantrums!!

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LauraApple

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Hi all, I'm looking for advice for my current CHALLENGING situation

I have a 9y/o ISH mare who i've owned for over a year now. She is very talented and can work beautifully into the contact when SHE wants to. She came to me with little respect for humans, in that both on the ground and under saddle she would be domineering and strong minded. I've worked on the for the duration of her ownership and have now addressed this problem in her handling. She is now in very good condition and has developed topline and fitness, usually being ridden or lunged 6 days a week.

I have brought on her work very slowly, although she was evented in the home prior to the previous owners, in which she was very successful.
I plan to event her eventually, however there is an issue that is preventing us from progressing in her ridden career...

The issue now is the respect under saddle. As before stated, once she is sitting at the end of my two reins she can work beautifully and really can stretch evenly into the contact and respond to my aids effectively.

However the slightest occurance around her causes her head to shoot up and her frame to hollow. This often happens far quicker than I can react, as her head is quite forcefully thrown and the contact braced against in an instant. Again, she seems to work correctly when she wants to, but is very easily distracted from her task despite contant aids and reminders.

I am quiet rider and my position is fluid yet still, as being forceful with my mare would only cause retalliation in the form of rodeo!
Half halting (both through hand and body) usually results in her speeding up. When she is in diva mode, for this reason, I often have a lack of "brakes" and therefore find downwards transitions very diffult to achieve.

Riding her from "back to front" also only seems to increase her hotness and either causes her to take off and shorten her neck or to through her head and brace against the contact. I usually give her strong half halts when she braces but even still she snatches the contact and takes off.

When she is in such a hot mood I usually ride her forward and allow her to stretch forward, however this by no means help with her concentration and willingness to my aids.

Her lack of regular competing is a likely contributing factor to her lack of concentration whenever we got out to a show, however I feel it is this lack of respect under saddle at home that i first need to address in order to take her out more often.

Every dressage test so far has mentioned her inconsistency of contact and lack of focus on her task and it is a real shame that she does not perform to her full potential when we are out.

She is ridden in a loose ring snaffle, usually with rubber rollerball (short) spurs/a schooling whip and is fed hi-fi lite, pony nuts, carrots and soaked hay. She lives out in the summer and is turned out all year. She had her back checked not long ago and her teeth done only last week.

My instructor has recommended running reins. Has anyone used this aid before and what is your opinion on such an aid?
What other aids/ techniques could we use in order to gain both her respect and concentration, as well as consistency into the contact and her frame?

Thank you in advance for feedback !!
 
You know, there are two elements in any ridden interaction - the horse AND the rider. If the horse doesn't listen to you, it's as likely to be the rider's fault as the horse's (more likely, actually). How does she go for another rider?
 
LauraApple said:
I am quiet rider and my position is fluid yet still, as being forceful with my mare would only cause retalliation in the form of rodeo!
Half halting (both through hand and body) usually results in her speeding up. When she is in diva mode, for this reason, I often have a lack of "brakes" and therefore find downwards transitions very diffult
Click to expand...

Ok this also reads as, "she has taught me to sit quietly and not ask for much. She does what she likes, on her terms. If I try to be effective she'll behave in a way that scares me and stops me being effective"

Try calling it disrespectful mode instead of diva mode! I can see why your instructor is suggesting running reins. Basically they're a very forceful method of control and if you're not mentally and physically strong enough to insist on basic obedience you may not be able to break this cycle. The fact that she was a successful eventer means at some stage she had a reasonable level of concentration and discipline. Discuss the running reins further with your instructor, maybe try using them for the first half of a lesson under supervision. At home, forget about the outline and concentrate on basic discipline, transitions on your command, every 4 strides make a transition or a turn, so that she has to pay attention to you. Clever horses get bored easily but enjoy being engaged. Add cavaletti poles to your flatwork, try a new exercise everyday but all the time insisting that it's on your terms not hers.
 
Haha I agree, well I used to be quite one sided in my posture but I've had a lot of physio to fix that. I've ridden and retrained problem horses since the age of 8, so I'm very patient and calm in my riding.

She's only otherwise been ridden by my old instructor, who she repeated these behaviours with, and an experienced rider, who she threw off -- as I heard the rider was quite forceful in her instruction. She is also hacked out by my mum, for whom she is a star; my mum doesn't ask anything from her and let's her be nosey!

She misbehaves when she is schooling in a hot mood, (from which I spend the majority of the session letting her trot out and down) and since she can get bored easily I try to give her a variety of exercises and sessions.

She's now a lot more accepting of the contact when I ride than she was previously, her main issue has always been lack of commitment to her task.
 
My mare used to spook a lot as an evasion from work.
Dressage instructor had me doing lots of leg yielding on 20 m circles, working from inside leg to outside rein which helped get her head down and engage more. I now used the same cues when she lifts her head on a straight line (slight shoulder in or haunches in depending where the spooky thing is).
I felt that an anti-acid/gut supplement (protexin acid ease) also helped with the dpooking.
 
Mine might be different as he is a gelding and also 12 years old so should know better, but I found I was making lots of excuses for him (noisy dogs in the carpark next to the arena, horses unloading, walking away from his friends etc) when one of my friends pointed out that he is more than capable of concentrating on the task in hand for a 4 minute dressage test and he should stop being allowed to take the piss. We ended up with her riding him through a 20 minute tantrum, after which he was as good as gold for both of us and has been a delight to ride in the school ever since. Her advice was to nip it in the bud (so a smack with my schooling whip when he stops paying attention/lifts his head to goggle at something etc) but be fast to reward good behaviour with a soft contact and plenty of praise at the end of the test/schooling session. It helped me to see her ride that tantrum too as I realised that I could cope with the napping as although naughty, it wasn't dangerous. You might need to adopt a slightly less direct approach with your mare, but there's definitely something to be said for outlining the boundaries and expecting respectful behaviour from her for the short time you ask her to do something! X
 
I agree a lot with Bantry, but also, mine was like this as a youngster and still can be from time to time when he isn't feeling 100% comfortable. A little bit of me wonders if when you are asking her to work from behind, she is running through you because it is difficult for her. Either she has been ridden by people with a very strong seat and has been able to rely on her front end to help her cope, or she hasn't got an understanding of you being more subtle so is taking your aid just as forwards not balanced forwards or she just want to get the job done so she can finish as it hurts either from something physical or is she is very sensitive just using muscles that haven't been worked properly before.

I completely agree with not allowing her to get stuffy during work and changing what you do - mine it has to be about every 10 seconds!! I also find counter bending very very useful in getting them to balance properly and be straight within themselves before asking for more forward. You could try a 15m circle with 4 paces each of counter bend, then straight then inside bend then straight. It works especially well for me before a walk to trot transition as they engage their back ends better and I get a bigger smoother trot rather than a fast one.

Good luck, she sounds very bright and that she needs to learn to accept your leg as a helpful aid not one to run away from.
 
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Just something completely different...

When my would be eventer went to a dressage yard (which was lovely) we stopped doing all the other work we used to do to focus on our flatwork. He was fine but then after 4 months started to seriously throw major strops. He was always checked with physio and vet and I came to the conclusion he was really pushing me and he went to an eventer friend of mine. Complete change of horse. As soon as he went back to the varied life he had enjoyed previously he reverted back to normal behaviour at all time. I followed him to the yard and never had any issues again. He was somewhat sour if asked to go in the schooling arena for a while but a few sessions jumping switched him on again. Just a thought!
 
cant help with the riding as my ideas have been said, however can you try cutting out the carrots? my friend had a riding school and as carrots were cheap she substituted them for their lunch time feed. the ponies all loved them but they all started to go crazy when ridden..she changed back to a scoop of cubes for lunch and no carrots and her well behaved ponies came back....I had a similar problem with my mare when she had lots of carrots, she is ok with 1 a day but any more sends her loopy....worth a try..
 
That sounds like it could work for us! I've recently been warming her up doing 10m circles and spiralling whenever she is nosey and it's helping with our rein connection and the overall engagement when she tries to evades.
I'll look into the supplements, do you give in the everyday feed or just every so often?
 
My instructor always says I'm far too nice to her and that my approach would suit a young nervous horse; she knows far too many tricks to get out of working lol!
I totally agree though, I would much rather nip it in the bud if she is acting like that because she's choosing not to listen! She really responds well to praise, so as long as I'm very quick with praising after using the whip she would probably react in a responsive way! X
 
We probably give her too many to be honest haha! Yes, definitely worth a try! Though they're her favourite treat...so I may have to deal with a stroppy horse on the ground for a few days, but it'll be worth it for a calmer ride! :P
 
This is so true, I feel like she has taught me to ride how she likes haha! I'm so used to riding nervous horses, where you have to be very quiet and patient, that I didn't even realise that to an extent she was happily doing her own thing and selectively hearing my aids lol! She's very intelligent and capable, but very much challenging if you cannot suss her tactics out!

Okay, I'll look into the running reins. She responds well to the Pessoa; it really encourages her to stretch across her top line and her ribs to open, so a similar aid under saddle will hopefully give a similar result.

She LOVES polework and is brilliant at sorting her legs through raised pole exercises. I incorporate poles into our flatwork at least twice a week.

Since last week, I have started each session doing exercises to engage her hind (haunches in, spiralling and MANY MANY small circles) then onto very fast transitions to slow her speed, maintain her impulsion and speed up her reactions to my aids. I'm planning to make each session different, but the warm up will remain the same as I want her to realise that this pattern of exercises, regardless of location, means it's time to focus.
 
I hadn't thought of that; I know some behaviours are likely to be out of lack of respect, but also some may be for alternate reasons. She will react if she finds an exercise difficult as she likes to be correct and good at the task she is assigned to.

I've spent a lot of time getting her more responsive to my seat and position (such as deepening my seat forward in a trot-walk transition) which she is beginning to respond to well. She is now beginning to respond well to leg yielding and shouldering (i.e. Moving away from my leg when necessary instead of away from it)

My schooling pattern can very much become a "doodle" when she is in a hot mood as we are constantly turning and circling on and off markers haha! I guess if I establish more balance on her behalf she will not rush in the forward motion of the gait, rather lift and open her frame.

That seems like a useful exercise! Would you usually incorporate that into the warm up or the work out? Once I have gained her upmost respect and attention I plan to work on opening her frame. At present I cannot ask her for an outright medium trot as this confuses her and causes her to rush. Can you recommend any further exercises that have worked for you?

Thank you very much, good luck to yourself also! :-) X
 
Wow It's crazy how expressive they can be in voicing their opinions haha!
As previously mentioned she LOVES jumping, and has fantastic shape over a fence! (Needless to admit I love jumping her) so I guess incorporating jump work will give her a more positive outlook of the arena!

I've never really concentrated on her jumping; I knew she was correct over a fence but her approach and landing was not too pretty as she was seemingly taught to "aim, lock, fire" lol. As a result I've done exactly the same and predominantly concentrated on her flatwork as it was nowhere near the level to sj competitvely.

I feel like that could really work though, possibly jumping grids/related dist. twice or three times a week?....along with our "moody mare boot camp" sessions of course! ;)

I'd love to address her (mis)behaviour asap as she really could progress though the levels with the right attitude!
Thank you - It's brilliant that this has worked for your boy and I hope for such promising results with my girl :-) X
 
Hahaha this sounds familiar :p It's easy to forget that the horse can school the rider as much as the other way around. They may not like it at first, but you need to be able to put your leg on and do a half halt, this may mean riding through some tantrums. I would also ring your vet for a quick chat and see if they think it's worth trying anything for her gut or ovaries.
 
It's a submission issue the horse does give herself up freely to be worked .
I would try working the horse harder for a shorter time and require more of her but for short periods .
Mucking about would result in being asked for shoulder in or leg yield or a canter transition.
 
Make doing the right thing easy. As GS says above, if she is going to misbehave, make her work harder. When she focuses and works properly, reward her with a quick pat, a stretch, going forward, voice etc - whatever is appropriate.
 
LauraApple said:
That sounds like it could work for us! I've recently been warming her up doing 10m circles and spiralling whenever she is nosey and it's helping with our rein connection and the overall engagement when she tries to evades.
I'll look into the supplements, do you give in the everyday feed or just every so often?
Click to expand...

The Protexin I gave her in everyday feed for 1 month.
Spiralling is great, I like small figures of 8 and serpentines too :)
 
Jazz loves to spook as an evasive tactic! Small figure of 8s are great, keep changing direction so she can't anticipate where she's going next and has to keep paying attention. Leg yield is very good for getting the hindleg and the brain engaged, as is spiralling on circles.
 
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