Dressage - head tossing?!!

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lucky7

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Any advice will be much appreciated! Thank you
I have a welsh D, he is 6 years old. He was backed at 4 and then turned away, did a bit more work then turned away for approx a year due to me having a baby so hes still very green but improving daily.
Did his first intro today and a prelim, had some really positive comments from the judge which was nice saying he has bags of potential, future star etc and she commented on how nice he was - things that we need to work on are our canter and getting the correct bend amongst a few other things, stuff i am sure i can improve him on with the help of some lessons (not had a lesson on him for a long time and it wasn't dressage based, although i have been riding for many years i am a bit rusty!)
So apart from sorting the above i have one thing that he does that concerns me, his thing is to throw his head up and down when he gets hot, sweaty or tense, whether its after a schooling session and hes cooling down, on a hack at the flies or when hes wound up his head will just be all over the place. Some days he will hardly do it, other days he does it from the off and won't stop! Managed to keep it under control in our test until the free walk came, he started flinging his head about again. He has been checked by a saddler and had his teeth done (dentist) no problem. He is ridden in a cavesson noseband and a NS team up bit with a loose ring. I have been schooling him in his show pelham the last coupe of weeks and he has been alot better in it head wise. Some days he's just awful to ride and its horrible almost being head butted in the face :( i have tried 3 different bridles with varying headpieces and sizes (not tried a micklem yet) I am thinking of trying him in something a little similar to the pelham - perhaps without a joint which is also dressage legal? not sure if the bit will even work but i don't know if its always just going to be one of those things he does with his head when hes stressed out or hot?? he never does it in the field and its really only under stressy times, if he's hot or if there are flies about, has anyone had this issue before? i am 99% sure its not pain or ill fitting tack i think its just a habit he does when hes stressed out.
I know this sounds really bad but i have had horses in the past and they have always had problems such as kissing spines (had to have PTS) then my cob mare had to have stifle surgery (2 years off work) and dont want to push her now shes working again and a few before then when i was younger that where never really suitable for what i wanted to do. I work very hard to have my horses and i really want to compete and do well, not carl hester well but enough to maybe qualify for petplan and regionals. However i keep hitting barriers with my horses which are totally fluke things (KS, Stifle field injury) now this head tossing is really making me question if he is the horse for me :/ what would you do?? i want to give him a chance as he is a nice boy but this head thing is getting me down!
 
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Could it possibly be headshaking, which unfortunately has a few things which can trigger it? What was he like in the winter did he do it then? I have a 7 year old Welsh D who started doing the same this year, but he's had lameness/pain issues too, so I felt it was due to a pain issue. Its very difficult to ride them when they are doing this and it's very distressing for them too I think. I am not sure the answer is to ride in a pelham, but you must keep "safe" whilst riding thats for sure. Could you perhaps clip him fully out? This is what I was going to do for mine to stop him getting so hot, but we're not now riding him, he's been retired due to his lameness. Whereabouts are you located and is the horse insured for vets fees? That might be your next port of call getting an assessment by the vets. Piriton in large doses daily might help him?
 
Welshies often express themselves by tossing their heads and this does sometimes come through into ridden work until they learn to control their emotions somewhat, I don't think it tends to be related to the equipment you use as such although changing bits can help them concentrate their minds for a while and be more focused on the job.

Without wishing to state the obvious you need to try and avoid him becoming stressed as much as possible, some things are easier to avoid than others, try to get him as fit as you can so he does not sweat unduly, ride early before it is too hot and their are less flies around, use the pelham if you have to go out when the flies are bad, work on getting him really soft, teach him to stretch down on a long rein as a reward and use it as a means to relax him if he does start to get stressed, keep work sessions short, give him lots of break allow him to stay cool and calm.

Make use of polework, leg yielding, flexions, bending to keep him listening, more soft so he doesn't get bored or stressed and ensure you are not becoming upset by him and winding him up inadvertently, try a nose or full face net to help with the flies, I think that once you make more progress with the schooling and especially his general fitness which will still not be great having done so little work, you will find the head tossing reduces significantly.
 
be positive said:
Welshies often express themselves by tossing their heads and this does sometimes come through into ridden work until they learn to control their emotions somewhat, I don't think it tends to be related to the equipment you use as such although changing bits can help them concentrate their minds for a while and be more focused on the job.

Without wishing to state the obvious you need to try and avoid him becoming stressed as much as possible, some things are easier to avoid than others, try to get him as fit as you can so he does not sweat unduly, ride early before it is too hot and their are less flies around, use the pelham if you have to go out when the flies are bad, work on getting him really soft, teach him to stretch down on a long rein as a reward and use it as a means to relax him if he does start to get stressed, keep work sessions short, give him lots of break allow him to stay cool and calm.

Make use of polework, leg yielding, flexions, bending to keep him listening, more soft so he doesn't get bored or stressed and ensure you are not becoming upset by him and winding him up inadvertently, try a nose or full face net to help with the flies, I think that once you make more progress with the schooling and especially his general fitness which will still not be great having done so little work, you will find the head tossing reduces significantly.
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Thank you thats really helpful and makes sense! yes he is very opinionated anyway and what he does do in the field if he is agitated is roll his head around especially in the winter if hes waiting for his tea or hay.
 
I have had two Welsh Ds that did this. Both would do it on the way home on a hack and yes when they were hot and wanting to get back home. The same thing worked with them both and while I'm not suggesting you do this, I'll tell you anyway.

All I did was hold a schooling whip up their necks so that when they threw their heads up they themselves tapped it on their heads. Essentially that annoyed them more than whatever was making them do it and both stopped completely.

It's a similar principle to putting a bracelet on a door banger but the problem is you need to be very good at being consistent as you are being the irritant rather than something else doing it automatically.

Anyway whatever you decide to do that might reassure you that it absolutely is a Welsh trait and doesn't necessarily mean something wrong with the horse (these two mares are not remotely related yet shared a lot of "habits"!)
 
FfionWinnie said:
I have had two Welsh Ds that did this. Both would do it on the way home on a hack and yes when they were hot and wanting to get back home. The same thing worked with them both and while I'm not suggesting you do this, I'll tell you anyway.

All I did was hold a schooling whip up their necks so that when they threw their heads up they themselves tapped it on their heads. Essentially that annoyed them more than whatever was making them do it and both stopped completely.

It's a similar principle to putting a bracelet on a door banger but the problem is you need to be very good at being consistent as you are being the irritant rather than something else doing it automatically.

Anyway whatever you decide to do that might reassure you that it absolutely is a Welsh trait and doesn't necessarily mean something wrong with the horse (these two mares are not remotely related yet shared a lot of "habits"!)
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That's reassuring to know that your welshies did it too and they stopped it!
I was contemplating a a standing martingale for a week or so just to see if I could break the cycle.
He dies need to be fitter too. He does it in winter too when he's agitated or hyped up.
 
Agree it being a welshie trait but also that he's young and unbalanced. My youngster can sometimes do it when a bit frustrated or tired. In fact, come to think of each time I brought her back into work after winter she would mess about. Fine now that she has muscled up and is stronger. I was always carefull to bring her back into work in short sessions but more often. e.g. 20mins 5xweek for four weeks then 40mins, an hour etc. The back does take time to be able to strengthen up enough to begin with.

It is really annoying though! I completely agree!

Also, have you loosened the noseband enough? Sometime tight cavessons can make the poll strap tight too and as the horse opens the mouth or yawns it will automatically pull on the poll. Someone showed this to me years ago and my then headshaker (fit hunter) stopped almost immediately. I ditched the flash, and now ride in a loose noseband fairly low down so as not to pinch the nerves and push the cheeks into the teeth.

You have to try what works but I hope you get to bottom of it soon.
 
It would be worth trying a standing martingale but it could go either way as it might make the horse fight more.

As with you with my first one I tried absolutely every combination of bridle and bit, nose net, head veil etc etc nothing made the slightest bit of difference. With the second one I didn't bother doing anything other than tapping her and I believe because I did it immediately, it never progressed.

Does yours also find standing still out hacking a challenge? Every Welshie I've owned has found it completely impossible to stand still on the way home and it took hours of work to get them to give in! Drives me completely up the wall!
 
FfionWinnie said:
It would be worth trying a standing martingale but it could go either way as it might make the horse fight more.

As with you with my first one I tried absolutely every combination of bridle and bit, nose net, head veil etc etc nothing made the slightest bit of difference. With the second one I didn't bother doing anything other than tapping her and I believe because I did it immediately, it never progressed.

Does yours also find standing still out hacking a challenge? Every Welshie I've owned has found it completely impossible to stand still on the way home and it took hours of work to get them to give in! Drives me completely up the wall!
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Standing still is a challenge! Getting him to stand yesterday in the line up at the show was horrendous. He's such a fidget. Just keeps stepping backward, throwing himself about etc. He's only just started to settle when he's tied up to groom. He used to be awful ? Pulling away and pawing the ground, but the past 12 months he's as good as gold whether he's tied to a trailer or on the gate without a net.
 
My first D would passage on the spot. Not technically moving but clearly not stood still either! I've got a C and current D with the same attitude although current D is not quite as bad as the first D about standing still but over all is a bit more highly strung. The first D was actually a really laid back horse but as soon as we got to a particular point on the way home all of the carry on started. I was just winning the war when she died unexpectedly.

I do love them but they do come with added extras that aren't for everyone!
 
FfionWinnie said:
My first D would passage on the spot. Not technically moving but clearly not stood still either! I've got a C and current D with the same attitude although current D is not quite as bad as the first D about standing still but over all is a bit more highly strung. The first D was actually a really laid back horse but as soon as we got to a particular point on the way home all of the carry on started. I was just winning the war when she died unexpectedly.

I do love them but they do come with added extras that aren't for everyone!
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Yes, sometimes he is just perfect, wont toss his head, hack out foot perfect or school beautifully, other times he's a spooky mess and will just piaffe past grids, he did a beautiful half pass across the school the other day as it was a bit windy haha. He goes amazingly floaty and really light on his feet when he's all hyped up! now if only i could get those moves on demand in a controlled manor!!
Joking aside, he has been the most quirky horse i have ever owned! hes so sharp and clever and not brave but he will go past things, never naps and hacks alone! he won't stand still though and he likes to jump puddles!! Head tosing aside he's alot of fun
 
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