Dressage Help needed!

r0450111

r0450111

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 October 2009
Messages
183
Location
hospital!
Visit site
I have an ex racer on loan and we try to do dressage. I say we try cos we dont do very well but he's beyond genuine! I do interdressage purely due to having no access to transport at all. Our scores are around 59 - 61% each time with constant comments of lack of forwardness, not consistant in contact, lack of bend. I'm trying and trying to change this, but (and heres the kicker) i loan him from a riding school and its part of the deal that he is used in there as well as me having him.

Now each time i ride, i am very black and white with him. He has to move off my leg from a tiny nudge. He is flicked up with the schooling whip to 'remind' him initially but he usually is totally on the ball after 5 minutes and i can get walk to canter reasonably easily. So he's 'off my leg' right? Or have i missed something?

Plus, forwardness. He's lazy, i admit it. But when riding i always feel like he's 'going somewhere' then when i watch the videos back, he looks lazier than ever. I just dont get it, how do i get forwardness consistantly?

I adore this horse and dont do dressage to win (its a bonus in my opinion) but would really like to improve my scores. I do have regular lessons but he is improving in their eyes simply because, i think, there is a huge difference from how he is in the riding school rather than him actually being forward and off my leg. Should i knock competing on the head and do some serious schooling or what?

Dont say give him up cos it aint gonna happen and i cant pull him from the school as they own him. He can do it, just need to figure out what we're (i'm!) doing wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDmELeG0X3w

This link is a racehorse to riding horse class. Think we got 61%ish in it. Not a true dressage test but i think is accurate in what we can get. Please please please dont be cruel about him or me. am very genuinely trying to improve. already had one 'equine expert' rip us to shreds and it broke my heart.
 
Yes, he really isn't going forward at all in your video - who are you having lessons with, can they ride him for you a bit too, to help encourage him forward more? Perhaps they could ride him for half the lesson, then you the latter half.

If they can't ride him for you, or they can't get a better tune than you, maybe you could look out for a different instructor? I am sure if you ask on here people can recommend someone to you. If you are paying for training, you want to be getting your money's worth and progressing a little each time! Good luck!
 
He is a lovely, chilled chappy! I am sure he's worth his weight in gold in the RS!

He really needs to 'wake' up a bit, but it's not easy to do when he is ridden one way for the RS and then has to go up a gear (or two) with you.

What is your usual warm up routine? Do you spend some time in walk, doing circles trying to get him a bit looser in the body and then loads of trot/walk/trot transitions trying to get him a bit more responsive?
 
Bless him, super chilled out Dude!
Its going to be a bit of a battle as any work you put into him is most likely going to be undone in the RS.

He really isn't forward going in the Video, are you strict with one squeeze & back it up with the schooling whip if no response? Its SO important to be very consistent with this as I learnt myself, ..

Suggest a varied warm up, lots of transitions, circles etc or if possible could you hack him out before warming up as this might put a pep in his step?
 
my ex racer (competing PSG, schooling GP) is literally the laziest toad ive ever met, he would LOVE to work in a RS lol!

are you 100& sure back ok and feed appropriate for amount of work he's doing? if so......what works for mine is to walk on a long rein until back relaxes, sometimes 2 laps, sometimes 10mins but really making him do the most extended walk he can and stretch riiiiiight out to contact.
Then pick him up and do walk/halt/walk but he has to spring forward in to the walk and if he doesnt then i make him leap forward and GALLOP (well moderate medium canter!) down the long side, then repeat until hes halting to attention and stepping crisply up to walk.

i then go straight up to canter and do lots of canter leg yield and shoulder in and walk/canter/walk but that migth be too much for your guy so maybe do some gentle spiralling out and some trot/canter/trot transitions on a circle, again, if a slack ass reaction make him GALLOP!

when i come back to trot he is then nice and active and sharp, so just do some gentle flexing and some *gear changes* ie collect trot a few steps, then touch with leg, hand forward a cm and go go go.....if he doesnt spring forward in to the bigger trot, again, gets a gallop, until when i collect, i can already feel the medium trot bubbling away and he's begging to go forward.
 
Well no one else has mentioned it but I will - he doesn't look happy or chilled to me, he looks sore. In some of the trot he doesn't look entirely sound. His tail swishing also suggests he's not very happy.

Really really difficult situation in that you only loan him and presumably the RS like him as he currently is because anyone can ride him so he's perfect for them.

If he were mine i'd be checking:
His back isn't sore;
He doesn't have ulcers;
His saddle fits;
He isn't school sour (what's he like out hacking?); and
He isn't lame.

At the moment he looks to me far too worried about whatever it is he's unhappy about to focus on what you want which is forwards.

You clearly care about him a lot, is it worth having a conversation with the RS? I suspect not which makes things horribly tricky for you :(
 
Charley said:
Well no one else has mentioned it but I will - he doesn't look happy or chilled to me, he looks sore. In some of the trot he doesn't look entirely sound. His tail swishing also suggests he's not very happy.

Really really difficult situation in that you only loan him and presumably the RS like him as he currently is because anyone can ride him so he's perfect for them.

If he were mine i'd be checking:
His back isn't sore;
He doesn't have ulcers;
His saddle fits;
He isn't school sour (what's he like out hacking?); and
He isn't lame.

At the moment he looks to me far too worried about whatever it is he's unhappy about to focus on what you want which is forwards.

You clearly care about him a lot, is it worth having a conversation with the RS? I suspect not which makes things horribly tricky for you :(
Click to expand...

Exactly what I thought :(
Also I think you will struggle to see much improvement with other people riding him as well.
 
Wow, loads of replies! Thank you all so much!

So i have lessons with his owner who runs the riding school. She's ridden to elementary. I've seen her ride him and he moves up 300% cos he know she wont accept sloppiness. Its fab to watch, just struggle to get there myself!

I am consistant to one small squeeze then no reaction or a slow reaction he gets flicked up and straight into several quick transitions either walk, halt walk or trot, walk, trot ect. Aiming to only walk/halt for a few seconds or 1 stride.

He is good to hack, can be abit sharp/spooky to again super lazy to go for a blast if we're leading. Totally different if we're behind! Then its racehorse time!

That video was shot about 30ish minutes into my hours lesson. I'd walk,trotted and cantered plus popped the fance a couple of times. His saddle was last checked in december and it fits but will bring it up with his owner. No ulcers, has been scoped at liverpool and was clear.

We've just had to cut his feed down cos he got HUGE! proper little barrel on legs, so until his weight comes down alittle more i'm reluctant to up his feed again. Work has been more sporadic and thus fitness isnt at his usual level due to snow ect.

Uusual warm up - walk loose rein for 10 minutes, then pick up and start walk/halt transitions, up into trot really pushing him on. Start trot/walk transitions. Have a short canter, then do trot/canter transition. Start doing direct transitions adding in a rein back when i do a halt. Obviously all done on both reins!

He rarely does more than 2 and a half hours on the busy days, having odd days where he has no lessons at all so really does vary. Summer is on the way so lesson will pick up more.

I pessoa him but will be doing it twice weekly cos he's stiff in his back and hocks. I've also started doing stretches with him cos he's not particulary flexible in any direction!

I'm determined to do 'well' with him as i've been told by several people that he will never be any good and i'm wasting my time. Which has naturally made me dig my heels in and want to prove them wrong! Oh he's also 13 now, raced for several years over flat and hurdles. Didnt do very well bless him!
 
I can't see your video and I'm no dressage expert but I do feel your pain, I spent a long time competing on riding school horses, and all your good schooling is so quickly undone if they do a beginner lesson between your last lesson and the test. It is very disheartening and that combined with the lack of control (not being able to change feed, or tack or whatever to suit) really put me off.

I have my own horse now who is only ridden by me and OH which is so much better.

Anyway a few things that worked for me from time to time with various horses, these may or may not be possible or appropriate depending upon your situation:
- a bit "extra" (scoop of oats or something with a decent amount of energy) in the feed the night before/morning of a competition. Only works if the horse isn't in the school that day too, and if the YM is agreeable.
- a tack change, again you need co-operation from the YM and it depends what the usual working tack is and what you are able to use in competition. For example the hrose my OH used to compete was super if you popped a double on, he'd come so much more forward and springy, so for showing he wore a double bridle, and for a lot of lessons with the OH. He couldn't wear it for dressage though.
- Spurs. If you have a secure enough lower leg a pair of spurs can really help if a horse has got a bit dead to the leg and whip. They don't have to be big, but you do have to use them correctly so talk to your instructor.
- Two whips. Again can be useful for a switched off horse, you can't use them in the ring but can do in a lesson or a warm up, use them together if you need more forward or one at a time to activate the relevent hind. Very useful if the horse is quite evasive.
- Lots of good sharp direct transitions. Literally hundreds for a ploddy horse, only a few strides in any pace, keep them guessing what you have planned and get them really forward. Think especially halt to trot and walk to canter, and if you can manage it canter, halt, rein back, canter is brilliant. Simple changes on a serpentine are good too.
- jumping, sometimes popping a jump can really rev an other wise ploddy type up, and having a jump out while you warm up might help.
- working in an open field. With a horse that is a bit school sour try schooling or even riding your test in the field it can make a HUGE difference.
- make sure that every time you ride the horse, you are really strict about forwardness and being off the leg right from the beginning, if you are really firm then eventually the horse will realise that when you get on then they have to WORK.
- Give the horse a good warm up, including a good forward canter out of the saddle for a good couple of laps of the school, get them really powering on. Sometimes this works because it "razzes them up" for want of a better phrase, sometimes it works because they are a bit tight and stiff and need to get their muscles working properly before they can work properly and comfortably.

If you suspect that the horse is not forward because it is unsound, or has physical issues then I would suggest either strong words about getting it sorted or ending the loan and finding something else. You don't want to be pushing a horse that is in anyway uncomfortable.
 
I also think that trot is looking a little out of rhythm but suspect this is because he is not forward enough and "waddling"!! He appears to try hard to please you otherwise and I can see why you love him, but you need to get him much more forward so you will think you are "flying"!! If you can achieve this in some way then you will have something to collect into your hand and you can make a better connection between your hand and leg thus improving the rythm and eventually the outline.
You must persevere, he looks such a lovable type I bet he can "con" you into letting him plod along! Being a bit stricter doesn`t mean you think less of him, just tell him you want to show his full potential!! Good luck and keep us up-dated please!
 
One thing I notice is that you are using your seat to push him along. I know I was taught to polish the saddle with my bum, but its generally accepted nowadays that this in fact has the effect of blocking the horse's movement. Sit lightly and move with him but only use your seat to slow him down.

I don't think he looks very happy and if he was mine and was stiff in his back and hocks I wouldn't try a pessoa or anything else until I had had him checked out by a physio or vet. I understand that he isn't yours and it is very difficult to suggest to the owner to have him checked out but if there is something wrong and you are using a pessoa, then you will make things worse.

Sadly, I think it is going to be an uphill struggle as long as he is ridden by so many different people.

It's so nice to see someone who loves her horse, even though you don't actually own him. A little quote from a poem called "The Horse" :-

"Be to his virtues ever kind, and to his faults a little blind".
 
ok so i rode again this afternoon (in the sunshine!). Really focused on my transitions, aiming to ride only one stride 'downwards' then straight back up again. Worked so well i couldnt stop the sod!

I've realised that i do make him come off my leg, but i dont always correct a sluggish reaction. Like he doesnt always jump into the pace i want but sometimes lumbers into it? So each time he's slacked off, i've flicked him straight back up. Plus i rode in my spurs again. I dont want him to get used to me using them BUT one of my instructors has said (shes the head girl) maybe i should ride in them so he 'knows' its me not lessons. Not sure if that would make sense to him?

He felt alot more forwards and we did about 45 minutes. I've also started doing some 'pilates for horses' stretches that my mate showed me. The stiffness isnt a new thing and he's been vet checked and is fine, just stiff after so many races and life in general.

Wanted to say thanks so much again for all your help and for being constructive. Can take constructive critisism any day!

Just added a couple of photos of him cos he's such a bonny lad and i simply adore him. Would happily crawl over fire for him.

487078_10151309658654297_1683826817_n.jpg


Just to show that this dressage rider can jump.........kind of! (i am aware my hands are terrible!)

528304_10151463281469297_1970869945_n.jpg
 
Don't beat yourself up - you are a nice sensitive rider with a horse which looks a bit bored and is ignoring your leg.

You say his owner & your instructor can get him to look fantastic - this is what you need to aim for. I would prefer a sharp tap with a dressage stick rather than constant nagging with spurs. It's not the spurs that will make him realise that he's not being ridden in the RS, but the attitude & competence as you've alluded to in your second post.

PrincessSparkles has given excellent advice - it's actually lovely to see such a chilled ex-racehorse, but they can be lazy bu**ers (I've had 2 - chalk and cheese - the current one can be rather laid back when he doesn't find what we are doing interesting!)
 
Had a short lesson today with our head girl. Got her to video bits of my lesson so i could see it for myself. Sometimes he gives me a fab feeling but looks terrible then other times he feels terrible but looks fab? Odd toerag!

I asctually had him tracking up in trot. I've never had that before, actually never! He's been like a whole new horse, even our head girl commented on it.

So videos are as follows

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucxm6FH_Wak&feature=youtu.be (this one was the best i think)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-sP8f1TH54

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKE0fkTCgWs

So i'm thinking the general consensus is he is perfectly capable of doing correct work and scoring well at dressage. I just need to pull my finger out and insist on it! I've entered this months racehorse to riding horse interdressage class but am viewing it more as a schooling round rather than a full on 'dressage' test. If *I* can produce the work he's shown in the videos then our scores should improve even if we just ride exercises like i rode in my lesson rather than a true freestyle.
 
Well done that is a huge improvement (I only had time to see the first video)! He is much more forwards, just make sure you are not working very hard. If you look at your leg it comes on every stride and your body is kind of working to keep him going, make sure he does all the work and if he does not listen to a nice aid, or a stronger aid, it's better to give him a sharp tap with the whip and send him really forwards (be prepared to allow with your hands and if he takes off round the school be prepared to go with him and give him a big pat - the worst thing to do is to ask with your leg and then block with your hands).
 
He looks like a lovely, kind horse. And your second video is a huge improvement on the first.

I think its basically a case of 'practice makes perfect' and as you improve your riding skills, the better he will go. I can recommend a really great book which might help you on your dressage journey - Enlightened Equitation, by Heather Moffett. It gives lots of tips on everything from rider's position, to a horses way of going.

Good luck!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top