'Dressage is unnatural and cruel' letter to local paper

Indeed. My horse has also performed passage and extended trot when exuberant and playful. Stallions certainly perform the elevated movements when displaying to each other or to a potential mate.

When trained, these movements are just learned behaviours, like standing to be mounted, getting on a trailer, or picking up a foot. Like all the other "unnatural" things we teach our horses to do, if taught correctly, they won't be stressful. Horses that are bred for the collected movements will have a natural tendency to want to do them.

The writer of the letter is welcome to his opinion, but he's still wrong. Dressage horses don't wear chains on their feet to get the high-stepping movement.
 
"But to make a horse perform the kind of movements associated with dressage must require severe restraints being placed on their hooves or even made to suffer pain to make them lift their legs high or perform unnatural steps."

Hahahaha I'm sorry but this part just makes me chuckle... severe restraints on their hooves and to put them in pain to make them lift their legs higher? What a wild imagination this person has!

Okay so dressage isn't exactly natural to a horse, especially when a rider is on top, but it is not cruel. Not when it is taught through patience, compassion, empathy and structure. The pathway to fair training is paved through knowledge and understanding of the horse and how it's mind and body works.
 
I have a certain sympathy with the man's views and queries. I don't like dressage and have only done it to the bare minimum - Pony Club teams. It isn't natural. Yes, horses make dressage moves, but they don't have to hold them for any length of time.

I often feel that dressage is rather like playing the recorder... you shouldn't do it until you can do it!

Why are seemingly all top dressage horses ridden in double bridles and fairly alarming bits, for example - if it's so natural, do it in a headcollar. Watch a herd of horses moving at any pace; you may get 5-6 seconds of a dressage movement, but the horse's natural carriage is with it's head fairly low, and unarched, to watch where it's going and to scent for danger.

Also, before you mock John Whoever, bear in mind the two current scandals - Rollkur and the Tennessee Walking Horse 'Big Rack'. I see similarities - obviously others don't.
 
At the race yard we had one who would naturally pop the 5 foot fences between fields. My boy is learning basic dressage at the moment and no punishment or force is required. Both mine perk up and get excited by show jumps. What a load of rubbish
 
If someone is going to argue that dressage is un-natural and therefore it shouldn't be done, then they are being a bit limited in their assessment of what is un-natural. If un-natural is a reason for not doing something, then that same person shouldn't just aim at dressage, they should aim at anyone that keeps an animal of wild herd/pack ancestry in captivity, anyone that teaches a wild animal to accept a human (esp. on its back) as boss, and should aim at all horse owners, cattle owners, dog owners, goat owners etc (you get where I am with this I'm sure).

It kind of boils down to what someone finds acceptable and why. Our hens don't live in cages, but their big runs are well fenced and we shut them in at night - it's not natural, but our hens live for years rather than being gobbled by the resident fox after a week.

The chap that wrote the letter (and yes I spotted it was a chap on first reading), hadn't really thought through his argument. I suspect if he had taken his time to think about how it read he might have been able to present the issues he really had problems with in a more focussed argument/question.
 
Read out loud to my no horsey Mom to bit about "severe resistants on the hooves", Mom looked totally puzzled LOL, she also says that she wants to be corrected at the end LOL
 
I must admit, I chuckled at this bit "I understand that seals can balance balls on their noses because they sometimes to similar things naturally. " I'm sure seals often find balls and other light weight things to balance, much more than horses extend trot and flying change around the paddock.

Obviously, the author is incredibly un-educated as far as equestrian and horse behaviour goes. That is fine, but I just find it difficult to comprehend that if you admit to having to knowledge, why post a letter to the public? It jsut hard to fathom basing an opinion on seeing horses in a paddock eating to mean that's all they can do.

If you really want to form a legitimate opinion, why not do some research? Talk to some local riders, have a ride yourself? It wouldn't take long to understand that horses do all those movements naturally, and from birth too.
 
Honey08 said:
Agree with this.

As for all of you saying that a horse performs high dressage movements naturally, there is one thing most of your comments share - your horse does high dressage movements when it is stressed, either wanting to run away/shy at something or not being allowed to run when it wants. So you could say you're training the horse to be stressed at that level..
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This!
 
Dressage horses are athletes who are well looked after and tought through time to become as beauitiful and balanced as they do (in most cases) its a Shame that there is a majority who have the urge to cheat by using methods that are unplesant and cruel! Its now being looked at differently thanks to those people! I think the man who wrote what he did should be invited to stay at a dressage yard for week or two and see how the horses really are treated and how they are only doing what they are comfortable to do with they're experience! I'm sure carl hester would change his mind in minutes when he sees the love and respect given to they're horses!
 
The bit about restraints on their hooves and rodeo does seem rather silly but I can see where he would have got it from with the Tennessee walking horses and other western stuff, I do find a lot of western practises I have had contact with to be somewhat unsophisticated at best (not a dig at western fans just what I have seen, mostly in Italy!).

He has rather invited ridicule really hasn't he? He could have at least wikipedia'd it!

P.s. I don't think dressage is particularly natural, but then I don't think showjumping is either, not that that means the horses are tortured and forced into it, I think with jumping especially they learn to love it and do it for fun!
 
Rowreach said:
Oh for crying out loud would you all listen to yourselves?

First of all the writer is a HE. And he is not a journalist, he is writing a letter to his local paper. And he is not stating facts, he is stating his experiences, his thoughts on the subject, and asking for the person who wrote the article to which he is responding to enlighten him about it.

And fwiw he is not entirely wrong.
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Absabloodylutely!
 
I don't think anyone's opinion can be labelled 'wrong'; it's just their personal view and we don't have to agree or feel the need to change his, though he clearly needs educating on the subject and certainly should have done a little research before writing such a letter and risking making himself look like a complete ejit. For example, horses do not do the foxtrot; they are in essence physically unable to, and would someone please explain to me what an earth the 'soft shoe shuffle' is?! :D

On the subject of rodeos, the riders are not trying the break the horses; they are trying to stay on for at least 8 seconds...;)
 
Perhaps people should be careful for what they wish for. Many people have posted about how there seemed to be lack of/ not equal amount of recognition re equestrian success in The Olympics in comparison to other sports.With a higher profile comes higher scrutiny which may not always be so welcome. I'm no dressage diva but do know there a many many horses who pass through a well known professional dressage rider's hands, only to break either physically or more often mentally which end up at a dealers yard not that far from where I live. So for many horses perhaps the author isn't too far off the mark saying "dressage is unnatural and cruel" at the higher levels.
 
Amazing youtube clips.

Well, the chap is not alone. Lots of people think like this. He is entitled to his opinions. I don't think he will change the world with his letter bless him.

I absolutely wish my horses would just graze all day. Then I can rest easy knowing, they won't jump out, get injuries playing pat-a-cake, get tendon injuries running/slipping etc.
 
It is interesting to read the views of an unhorsey person, I didnt find him as judgemental and damning as some comments on Daily Mail internet articles, which would have my horses living in the wild and having to fend for themselves (surrounded by predators).

I did read it thinking that things such as Rollkur would give those who hold these types of views extra ammunition.
 
HAHa!!! Would live for her to sit on my TB when the trap comes passed!!! She too would witness my horse piaffe, Half pass and some moves I don't even know what they are!
 
Rose Folly said:
Also, before you mock John Whoever, bear in mind the two current scandals - Rollkur and the Tennessee Walking Horse 'Big Rack'. I see similarities - obviously others don't.
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Yes, this. It may be amusing to mock him for his lack of knowledge of dressage as currently practised (as far as we know :rolleyes:) but in the 1950s, had this letter been written about Tennessee Walkers, those who were in that sector of the horse industry would have been mocking him just the same - "ignorant man, that's not how we do things" - well, it bloody well is exactly how they do them now, and worse.

It is sometimes not a bad thing to be reminded of how things may appear to the outside world.
 
Mitchyden said:
I can sort of see what the writer means to a certain extent. I have no problem with dressage whatsoever including the piaffe and passage but what I absolutely hate watching is the pirouette - it looks so laboured!
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I know what you mean but they do do them on their own - my mare did a beautiful canter pirouette to escape the scary black plastic the other day, unfortunately not something I expected
 
NoseyPosey said:
I must admit, I just don't "get" dressage at all and I certainly don't think it should be an olympic event. Just my opinion, but if the winner can't be determined by "First past the post" or "Quickest" then it's open to subjective judging. Just my opinion.
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By that then all the gymnastics wouldn't be an olympic event, neither would any of the martial arts, boxing, etc
 
HashRouge said:
^That^

And in all fairness, dressage is quite unnatural...
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Not really, dressage has derived from using and enhancing a horse's natural movements - not all of them they will be doing every day all day, arguably, but dressage was created to be able to control a horse and use a horse for certain manouvres this being particularly, in the old days, in battle, or in Western riding, herding cows....
 
Rowreach said:
Oh for crying out loud would you all listen to yourselves?

First of all the writer is a HE. And he is not a journalist, he is writing a letter to his local paper. And he is not stating facts, he is stating his experiences, his thoughts on the subject, and asking for the person who wrote the article to which he is responding to enlighten him about it.

And fwiw he is not entirely wrong.
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I agree with this ^^. I felt very uncomfortable watching SOME of the Olympic dressage. I actually preferred watching the eventing dressage.
 
One trainer described dressage as "physiotherapy for the horse" to enable it to develop strength so it has a long and sound life carrying a rider - which after all, is not "natural" but neither is jumping. The riding and jumping have been exploited by humans.

It is interesting to hear from a "non horsey" person, but equestrian events are the equivalent of the gymnastics events. No one has to do gymnastics, but lots of people do it and watch.

Sorry, loosing the thread slightly.
 
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