Dressage Judging

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Bossanova

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This is something I will never understand. Moon has received a string of bad marks, sometimes for tests which deserved it (tense or unconnected/ fussy in mouth) and sometimes for tests which didnt. I've given up predicting our likely scores as most judges just dont 'get' her. She is a very strange shape and looks downhill when she isnt actually that bad.

My sister had 2 horses in the same class as each other yesterday- 1 a tb who moves nicely but struggles with the new novice tests- he broke in first medium trot, broke in counter canter, was resistant in rein back and generally a bit argumentative and a typical tb.
The other is a very smart irish horse who moves nicely, did everything bang on but perhaps lacked a little sparkle.

First horse got 41 (generous) second horse got 38.5 when he deserves at least a 10% improvement on the 1st horse- he has never got worse than 37, even on really spooky and naughty days!!

How does that work?!
 
What I think is totally unhelpful is one week you can go before a generous judge and the week after a harsh one and have a massive disparity in marks. This leaves you in no mans land!
We had one horse at the ode bucking, head in the air for a 46 and friend did an ok but obedient test for 45??

I wish there was some way that riders could rate judges - I would like to see a lot more video analysis to see if the judges are right.
 
I would guess that the judge liked the type of the first horse better. Very annoying I know but judges do seem to have bias towards certain types. I have given this quite alot of thought as I used to compete a cobby type in dressage. I got to know what judges liked her and who didnt. I dont think they do it on purpose, i just think that if they like the horse when it comes in they see the positive but if its not their cup of tea they are more likely to see the negative.
 
I have no idea how dressage judges' brains work!!!! I have had 3 eye witnesses (1 of which a total stranger so no need to be nice) say my halt on sun was perfect and square but judge's comment was 'not quite square'

My friend has a theory that the later in the class you are the better mark you get becasue by the end of the day judges have relaxed their standards and are being more generous! Her theory not mine!!!

I agree with you on some judges 'not getting' quirky horses. My old tb was an odd mover and so sometimes could get 70% and sometimes 40%!!!! how do you figure that out when he was the most consistent little horse around, it is just down to the individual.

I think even though it should be marked to a standard and about accuracy aswell I think entering the arena in a smart dressage saddle on a big well plaited horse, with lovely long skinny legs will instantly make the judge think you are going to do a nice test and so bias them either favorably towards you or make them ultra critical as they are expecting the goods. I think you just have to hope that it goes your way, or there's always voodoo!
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does this happen at BD as much as it does at BE? What's the difference in standard of judging?

My dressage trainer (who has ridden for her country) came to watch my BE test a few weeks back and was quite confused over how I was judged. I rode my test with the pole as the highest point of the outline, yet got comments saying 'not round enough'. The horses that went in overbent, seemed to get higher marks.

I got confused at the same event, as I watched Laura Collett do a test which imo was beautiful. The pair of them looked in total harmony, and everything was incredibly accurate. My friend and I were thinking it had to be a high 20's test. We then watched another horse go round, that was wobbling round the corners, and didnt have a good rhythm.

Looked at the results afterwards and Laura got 37.something and thewobbly horse got 36
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At that point, I decided that it may just be pot luck as to how well you do!!!
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Yup, agree - got 35 and 34 in last two outings for similar standard tests. Rode another test at Belton pretty much the same (we don't vary much!) and got 40.5
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. Now all the marks in our section at Belton were less generous than the preceding two events so I was roughly in about the same place in the section but it does look rubbish on his record - 35, 34, 40.5
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Without wanting to wonder too much about the influence of 'faces' the rider preceding me got 37 on a very ordinary horse which fluffed a couple of transitions and was very un-balanced on the turns and the medium work. She is a British team rider though....
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dont i am so with you on this one !!

went BD the other week and did 2 prelims a lady in the first class was on a nice horse and scored 58% for her first (we scored 62%) then in her second test scored 75% (we scored 58%)

could someone really improve that much in 15 mins ??
 
I do a lot of dressage writing at BE, up to novice levels, and believe me it's scary......what I see and what they see is often totally different.

Generalising here but some completely miss movements, don't spot the horse has done a transition at the wrong marker, watch another horse in another arena, ask me what score I think it should get......the list goes on!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I do a lot of dressage writing at BE, up to novice levels, and believe me it's scary......what I see and what they see is often totally different.

Generalising here but some completely miss movements, don't spot the horse has done a transition at the wrong marker, watch another horse in another arena, ask me what score I think it should get......the list goes on!

[/ QUOTE ]

I would echo this from my limited experience writing. I actually am away disillusioned and wondered why anyone would want to do dressage full time. I only do it because I need to eventing.
 
i know exactly what you mean the difference in the marking is unbelivable normally in a section there are a few higher or lower and then the middle ground if u know what i mean!.. at larkhill the section i was in ranged from a 19 to a 68 with no real middle ground i would have been very interested to see all the horses to see if there was really that big a difference in each horse
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also if they judge harshly make comments so you know where u lost the marks (even though sometimes we won't agree
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i was at sapey last week we did a pefect straight entry which judge remarked on and got a 6!!
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I've limited experience at BD, but have found it to be far more fair and to reward far more for correctness rather than paces.
When I've had a good score eventing it has always been with a BD judge who is higher than list 6.....
I find it interesting to film tests and compare with the score sheet. At Will's recent event he had a 5 for his entry which was WAAY harsh, it was a nice if unremarkable entry. Watching the video it is apparent that the judge is getting given her lunch at that point!!!
 
it varies hugely, however i think if you can show certain things consistently(straightness, balance, rhythm, relaxation, forwardness etc etc) then they really can't give you bad marks... although whether they give you really good marks might go down to personal preference.
having had excellent marks for crap tests, crap marks for excellent tests, marks and comments for things I forgot to do, comments for things I didn't do at all, etc etc, I now rely on whether I was happy with it or not.
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I know exactly what you mean. My girl is prob much like your sisters 2nd horse, always does a really obidient test (which is always commented on) but it's just not enough.

Another funny thing though, I did an Elementary at a local (to you and me) BD venue and I rode her how I have been taught to. The judge slated me and said my reins were too short blah blah blah, well if you knew my mare, she would have a flip if you took too much contact, everyone who knows me laughed as from all my bad habits, hanging on isn't one of them.

Sooo, I had the same judge 2 weeks later and I rode her on washing line reins and I got 9% more *snigger*. Her comments were also totally different.
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You think BE is bad, try doing unaff! Got judged by a girl that can’t have been much older then 12 at a reputable riding school at Christmas, some very ummmm interesting comments including cute horse. Oh and being judged by the students at a Equestrian college was even more interesting, 1st to 6th had over 90%!
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Hate to be the one to speak up for judges but having done some local judging it very much depends on if you go up or down Ie if your thinking strong six not quite a seven you end up giving them a 60 % test if you think its almost a seven and go up they get 70% when in fact its only slightly diff but the way the scoring system is it creates a 10% diff in the marks personally i would like to give half marks so the score was more realitic, any thoughts??
 
I think you make a fair point, but I would like to see judges use a bigger range of marks where possible. You don't have half marks available to you... but if judges were a bit braver about using the full range of marks... then this would help surely.
 
But you could just convert a few of the top end 6s into 7s and, if needs be, a few of the lower end 6s into 5s. I dont mind an accurate representation of the test if that means giving an extra mark here and taking a mark off there!
 
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