Dressage Legal Bits

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somethingillremember

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Alot of us complain about Dressage Legal Bits . There are alot of horses that dont go well in DL bits but forced to use them. We are all allowed to have whatever you want saddle , girth , numnah , bridle ... whatever makes your horse comfy and therefore will be able to move freely etc ... everything for the horses comfort ... except the bit . The bit is such an important part of communication but if you want to compete in anything that has BD regs then you are not allowed to use whatever bit your horse goes well in and is happy in ...unless its BD DL . Its almost cruelty .
BD need to change their regs and it wont happen unless people complain to them. USA Dressage have changed their regs , its about time BD got into the 21st century !
 
I don't understand why ports aren't allowed, they give so much relief to horses with big tongues it's a shame they're not allowed.

It would be crazy without any rules though, too many people would just stick a stronger bit in rather than train them or a bit that gives a false outline. With the ease of having those shortcuts hardly any horses will ever progress further than prelim.
 
I do agree ported bits should be allowed if they are still snaffles. I know several native ponies who are considerably happier in a ported snaffle, because their small mouth/ large tongue makes the bit uncomfortable for them.
 
It's so frustrating Louie has such a small mouth and a bigish tongue goes beautifully in a port. I have however found a hanging cheek nathe works just as well. :)
 
Kokopelli said:
I don't understand why ports aren't allowed, they give so much relief to horses with big tongues it's a shame they're not allowed.

It would be crazy without any rules though, too many people would just stick a stronger bit in rather than train them or a bit that gives a false outline. With the ease of having those shortcuts hardly any horses will ever progress further than prelim.
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I think the thing to restrict would be nosebands . If your horse has the right bit then you dont need a noseband that straps its mouth shut , it opens its mouth to avoid a bit it doesnt like for whatever reason . So the people that have a happy horse will be the ones in a cavasson noseband , thus showing the world how much effort they have gone to to find out what works for their horse rather than slap a flash on instead of finding out why the horse has its mouth open etc etc .
 
USA ONLY !!!!

"On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Hallye Griffin <HGriffin@usef.org> wrote:

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Our recently revised bit rules will become effective February 1st (so very soon!). In the new bit rules, we specifically state the Snaffles with rotating mouthpieces (Myler Level 1 and Level 2) bits are legal.
I hope this is helpful.
Please don&#8217;t hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions.
Many thanks.
Hallye

Hallye Griffin
Director of Dressage, National Programs
United States Equestrian Federation, Inc. "

Come on BD keep up !
 
On the BD website this is one of the "Values"

Putting the welfare of the horse as a ‘happy athlete’ at the heart of everything we do .

I think they need to add .....as long as its not the bit !
 
I'm not sure if it is cruelty though, I think the aim of dressage is to have the horse well schooled so that it doesn't need lots of tack. Lots of bits aren't dressage legal for a reason, as it would probably give a false picture. Ie using strong gags etc. also as an aside there are bridles etc that are not legal too like the grackle or martingales etc.
 
To be fair, the bits that have been approved in the US are the less than 30mm 'ports' (actually curves - ports as on western bits are different) and the rotating mouthpieces. So nothing with leverage etc.

OP perhaps you should get together a study and petition based on the US model. That change seems to have been driven largely by one person, with backing from Myler. The organization is unlikely to effect random change unless members and other interested parties express their needs.

Re nosebands. I actually agree with you but having discussed it at length I can't see it changing.
 
It is hardly cruelty, I mean come on!

I think ports should be allowed but you would have to have a height limit as the high port mylers really do affect a horses way of going/can give a false picture.

Also I think it should still have to be a plain snaffle, so none of the mylers with hooks or anything!

At the end of the day the whole point is showing a partnership in harmony. A horse which requires it's head dragging in with a stronger bit is not in harmony!

ETA that bit about the US rule changes above just says rotating mouth pieces. We can already use rotating mouth pieces, the non-ported comfort snaffles are BD legal!
 
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The point is whatever your horse goes well in you wont need the extra tack.. the Crank noseband , flash , martingales but if your horse is happy with ie poll pressure rather than pressure in its mouth then you need a bit that sort of bit . A bit is only as hard as the person holding the reins . Anyone can look at a horse and see if its happy , soft and relaxed , forward going , responsive etc , this is remarked on when you do your dressage test . So you'll get better marks if you have a happy horse in an "illegal bit" rather than an unhappy , tense etc horse in a legal bit . So if your horse is unhappy , uncomfortable , unable to swallow etc ...thats fine is it ? I bet gone to the ends of the earth to make sure the saddle fits correctly and that lovely shaped soft sheepskin covered girth , oh and dont forget the padded shaped headpiece just to add that extra comfort ..... but not the bit ! Im sorry but forcing a horse to perform in something that he's uncomfortable in is cruel and " those are the regs" is not a good enough reason for it to continue. I dont think any other discipline has a bit rule , the ones I have spoken to all say as long as your horse is happy we done mind what you use.
 
Cheiro1 said:
It is hardly cruelty, I mean come on!
Unhappy , uncomfortable horse = cruel . If your horse was uncomfortable would you continue with the item ?
.......
I think ports should be allowed but you would have to have a height limit as the high port mylers really do affect a horses way of going/can give a false picture.

But again .... if your horse is happy whats the problem ? An unhappy horse will tell you one way or another .
..........
Also I think it should still have to be a plain snaffle, so none of the mylers with hooks or anything!

Why ?
......
At the end of the day the whole point is showing a partnership in harmony. A horse which requires it's head dragging in with a stronger bit is not in harmony!

Exactly .... a picture of harmony . The judge will comment on what doesnt look right
........
ETA that bit about the US rule changes above just says rotating mouth pieces. We can already use rotating mouth pieces, the non-ported comfort snaffles are BD legal!
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Yes we know the non ported ones are legal , this is the point that some horses are better with a low port so why will they not allow low ports ? !
 
They are incorrectly described as ports which are a U shape - the ones on snaffles are actually called 'Cambridge' mouth also once known as a liberty.

I too agree that this shape of mouthpiece should be allowed though to be honest I've never had a problem with any of my horses mouths in a plain single jointed snaffle.

A lot of the problems for the horse lie with the rider at the other end of the reins and rushed schooling often with the extras used such as draw reins.

My Fleshy mouthed Clydesdale goes quite happily in a single joint.
 
Tnavas , true , ports are just easier for people to understand !
If your horse goes well in a single joint thats great but you would change if he didnt , or if your girth rubbed you'd do something etc etc .
It really annoys me that people just sit there and say shrug shoulders and "oh well those are the rules ! "
Love your tag re Clydesdales and bottoms !
 
ANY bit puts pressure in the mouth, by it's very nature!

A horse should work correctly through correct schooling, NOT through bit action. "unable to swallow" hardly! A snaffle is never going to stop a horse swallowing, you can get some pretty thin ones!

I took on a very quirky horse who was at that time in a Pelham. He may have worked on the bit, but only because the bit was making him do it. He went like a giraffe in a snaffle.

In a year he was working Elem/medium at home....in a snaffle. Because I took him back to basics and trained him properly.

Was that cruel of me? No, it was much nicer for him NOT to have all sorts of pressure forcing him to do something!
 
somethingillremember said:
Tnavas , true , ports are just easier for people to understand !
If your horse goes well in a single joint thats great but you would change if he didnt , or if your girth rubbed you'd do something etc etc .
It really annoys me that people just sit there and say shrug shoulders and "oh well those are the rules ! "
Love your tag re Clydesdales and bottoms !
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I once tried my TB dressage horse in a double jointed when they first became the 'In Bit' to wear but he got his tongue over it with 45 mins. Never used one since. I've worked with hundreds of horses over the years and the only other bits I've used apart from a single jointed snaffle are the Cambridge mouth snaffles.

I've honestly never had a horse that's had a problem with a single joint.
 
somethingillremember said:
Tnavas , true , ports are just easier for people to understand !
If your horse goes well in a single joint thats great but you would change if he didnt , or if your girth rubbed you'd do something etc etc .
It really annoys me that people just sit there and say shrug shoulders and "oh well those are the rules ! "
Love your tag re Clydesdales and bottoms !
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Nobody has said that, I just asked what you're doing about it. ;)

Re your championing of leverage bits - there is no bit that applies poll pressure without pressure on the mouth - I'm afraid I cannot agree. Leverage bits work by significantly increasing the force of the rider's hand - they may "look" kind because the rider isn't pulling but that's the whole point, they make it easier to exert force. And that is why they are not allowed in dressage, because they can force a horse into looking a certain way in a way that does not seem obvious to the rider or to observers.
 
somethingillremember said:
This is it , you find the bit your horse is happy in and this is my argument with BD , why can we not use the bit our horse is happy in ?
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Quite often, I think the bit the horse is 'happiest' in (especially when aiming for the horse to work in an outline) is just the one that is easiest to force a false impression of what we want. Which is why snaffles are enforced I thought- they don't apply poll pressure...
 
I dont have an issue with the snaffle rule below elementary level as there is so much choice (although I sympathise with people who get best results with ported mouthpieces) what does annoy me is the no pelham rule - if you can use a double from elementary level why not a pelham? There is no logical or welfare reason that I can think of but some horses are happier with less hardware in their mouths but benefit from the curb action for the more collected moves.
 
Pongwiffy I agree with you re Pelhams , it just doesnt seem logical . My question is purely on horses comfort , some horses need a non legal BD bit . You cannot fake a happy horse , a false impression . Whatever the pressure is from the bit , poll etc it shouldnt be there all the time , once you have the reaction you want you stop asking , so the pressure stops . If you want your car to slow down you take you foot off the accelerator and gently apply brakes , but as soon as you get what you want you stop .
 
TarrSteps said:
Nobody has said that, I just asked what you're doing about it. ;)

Re your championing of leverage bits - there is no bit that applies poll pressure without pressure on the mouth - I'm afraid I cannot agree. Leverage bits work by significantly increasing the force of the rider's hand - they may "look" kind because the rider isn't pulling but that's the whole point, they make it easier to exert force. And that is why they are not allowed in dressage, because they can force a horse into looking a certain way in a way that does not seem obvious to the rider or to observers.
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Except they are in the higher levels - they are a refinement aid as yes while they tighten around the lower jaw they exert poll pressure which the horse immediately yields too and the pressure stops. A good rider will ride primarily on the bridoon rein.

Pongwiffy - this though is the purpose of dressage - for the horse to be schooled so well that it will perform the movements at the highest level with ease.

A really well schooled horse should be able to do the very advanced work in a snaffle if it's training has been thorough. I know my old coach (trained by a Spanish Riding School Instructor) regularly has one of her pupils riding in a mullen mouth.

Look at Nuno Oliveira - he works his with the curb rein loose. I personally would like to see all the doublebridles go and the top level dressage performed in just a snaffle.

And as I said earlier I've never yet had a horse that doesn't go well in a single jointed snaffle. If I do ever have one - it will go back to basics 0 being lunged in a Fulmer with side reins.

The rider is the problem - not the bit or the horse!
 
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somethingillremember said:
Tnavas , true , ports are just easier for people to understand !
If your horse goes well in a single joint thats great but you would change if he didnt , or if your girth rubbed you'd do something etc etc .
It really annoys me that people just sit there and say shrug shoulders and "oh well those are the rules ! "
Love your tag re Clydesdales and bottoms !
Click to expand...

To answer your question
What would I do?

Have teeth checked and sorted, have back/neck checked and sorted and then put the horse in a Fulmer Snaffle and drop noseband and go back to basics with lunging in side reins.

I've had hundreds of horses through my life time and ALL have gone well in a single jointed snaffle - ones I've broken in, ones that I've got off the track and generally most have gone on to wear just a cavesson noseband.

I was taught a good foundation makes the horses mouth, time, patience and wuality schooling.
 
That's fair enough - if everyone had to compete at the higher levels in a snaffle (perhaps only in a cavesson noseband too seeing as flashes & cranks may hide a multitude of sins I wouldn't have an issue - but until then, whilst double bridles are permitted I just dont see why pelhams shouldnt be either.

Although nuno may keep the curb loose, Presumably he used it when hit was necessary (which I guess will decrease as the horse becomes more educated)- otherwise why would he put a curb bit in the mouth at all?
 
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