Dressage legal equivalent bit

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help1

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Please could someone advise me on a dressage legal equivalent bit to a bubble bit (Dutch Gag) with a french link mouthpiece? I only ride on the top ring so was thinking either a french link hanging cheek or would a french link loose ring snaffle be better?

Also any ideas where I could order a good quality one to arrive by next Thursday?

Many thanks also posted in NL
 
The hanging cheek will have the most similar poll pressure to the dutch gag.
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I have found most mail order/any tack shop really will pop one in the post and special delivery it for you if you ask nicely- am terrible at getting things ordered on time.!
 
Hey there, Im in a similar boat. I ride my horse in a 3 loop gag with a normal link on the 2nd loop down and sometimes the 3rd loop down when needed and I ride him with a hanging snaffle for dressage but tbh I find it difficult to keep him undercontrol with it as he is a stong middle weight hunter. I posted here asking for bit advice for dressage and just got told to school more, which doesnt make him have more strength not less!

The hanging is fine when I am in a enclosed arena but in a open field situation I just wouldnt be 100%. Ive heard good things of myler bits? I think they have a similar actioned bit to the gag but dressage legal? does anyone know what it is?

cheers
 
Thanks for this he's not strong just still a baby and we have been playing about to see what suits. He works very well and is nicely schooled but seems to go well in this. Think I am probably a bit feeble!!

As I only ride on the top ring how much poll pressure would actually be exerted was thinking on the top ring it acts pretty much the same as a snaffle?
 
The length of the shank multiplies the pressure on the poll. The lower the rein goes on a gag the more pressure. People often call the big ring on a dutch gag the snaffle ring but it isnt a snaffle, its a gag! The hanging cheek still offers quite alot of poll pressure so if you dont need it a loose ring french link would be better. As with any bit you need to try it for several weeks as they work in different ways and the horse has to be trained to the different action.
 
Taken from....

http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/bridle.php


Another bit with this function is the drop-cheek or baucher/fillis bit. This bit can look deceptively like a gag-bit but it is not, since the mouth piece cannot slide on the bitring, which is a prerequisite for gag action. In this bit, the fastening of the bridle side piece is done further up the side of the head. This makes the bit lie flatter to the side of the head, because anything other than would have to fight the "lever" of the arm where the side piece joins. This effectively stops the bit from being pulled into the mouth from the side as well. And horses usually like this kind of bit.

This bit is usually falsley described as creating poll pressure. Most baucher bits don't. In order for it to put pressure on the poll, the ring which the rein attaches to, needs to have a drawn-out oblong shape so that the rein stays at a certain position on the ring. If the ring is oblong, the rein will want to stay at one end, and thus pulls this end up towards the hand/rein. If the ring is round, so that the distance from the mouth bars to the rein is constant at all angles, the rein will slide.



Just one of my pet hates when people say the hanging cheek/baucher has poll action
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Mad hector thanks for this and a very useful site and explanation. He is only 4 (well 5 soon and 5 already if you go for the 1st Jan thing). We will mostly show jump but have been enjoying the dressage. I will try the hanging cheek/baucher I was thinking of the rounded rather than oblong.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Taken from....

http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/bridle.php


Another bit with this function is the drop-cheek or baucher/fillis bit. This bit can look deceptively like a gag-bit but it is not, since the mouth piece cannot slide on the bitring, which is a prerequisite for gag action. In this bit, the fastening of the bridle side piece is done further up the side of the head. This makes the bit lie flatter to the side of the head, because anything other than would have to fight the "lever" of the arm where the side piece joins. This effectively stops the bit from being pulled into the mouth from the side as well. And horses usually like this kind of bit.

This bit is usually falsley described as creating poll pressure. Most baucher bits don't. In order for it to put pressure on the poll, the ring which the rein attaches to, needs to have a drawn-out oblong shape so that the rein stays at a certain position on the ring. If the ring is oblong, the rein will want to stay at one end, and thus pulls this end up towards the hand/rein. If the ring is round, so that the distance from the mouth bars to the rein is constant at all angles, the rein will slide.



Just one of my pet hates when people say the hanging cheek/baucher has poll action
tongue.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

I would disagree that the baucher doesnt have poll action. My horse went overbent when i tried one because of the poll pressure. he never goes overbent in a normal snaffle with the same mouthpiece. On discussing it with my instructor, she said that bauchers are more severe than people think. She hates them! Shes a german grand prix dressage rider so i respect her experience. I agree with what you say about the ring shape making a difference to the amount of pressure but even though the rein slides on abaucher there is still poll pressure.
 
In order for a lever to work, there has to be a fulcrum (like the point in the middle of a see saw) and two "arms". So for a bit to have leverage action the rein has to attach and *stay* below the level of the mouthpiece when rein pressure is applied. As madhector's post points out, with a proper Baucher snaffle this does not happen, which is why the bit in not a leverage bit. This is also why it IS legal for dressage - if it had leverage action (poll pressure) it would not be.

Bauchers were designed (by a famous trainer named Baucher, oddly enough, or at least he publicised them) for a very specific purpose to be used in the "French Light" school of dressage. Effectively they are designed so the bit "hangs" straight in the horses mouth when the horse gives at the poll, thereby releasing all pressure. I can't imagine any German trained dressage rider liking them, but that doesn't necessarily make them "bad", just fit for a different purpose.

The problem with bits is they don't all feel the same, no matter how much we may think they look the same and very subtle differences can produce diverse reactions from sensitive horse.

What I do find with Bauchers is that often people do not adjust them the way they are supposed to be used, but as if they were standard ring snaffles. This would produce quite a different feel to the horse. I do find, as well, that horses with even minor teeth issues can react - good or bad - the different placement and possibly the feel of the cheeks.
 
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