Dressage lines for jumping?

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jcwh

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to clarify, i am not breeding. i am just a seeker of information.
Was wondering your thoughts on:

mare has great jumping lines. galoubet A, libero H, Ramiro.
she has fab jump.
lacks balance and pace, lacks neck and shoulder, lacks hock action.
short coupled. has lots of blood, stamina and energy, and certainly does NOT need any more TB blood in her! :P

in essence, the perfect stallion sounds pretty much like a dressage one:
longer in neck, with good shoulder and hock action, free and loose, and balanced. not to mention they are supposed to be more of a submissive attitude and perhaps better(?) temperament?

if i had a foal out of said mare and say.... a Jazz x Krack C stallion
i'm pretty sure i'd get movement etc, but will i lose my jump?
because though i'd love movement, i still want a jumper.

thoughts on dressage lines for jumpers? because i mean, the idea is that dressage horses are sensitive, balanced and easy to manipulate. sounds like an ok jumper no?
 
The Florestans usually jump well.

Quattro B is a good dual purpose sire, having produced Grand Prix jumpers and dressage horses.

Jazz, Donnerhall, Rubinstein are not renowned for producing jumpers but occasionally do.

Some of the Sandro Hit sons have had very good marks for their jumping in their performance tests (for dressage horses) and some have not.
 
If you look at licensed German stallions i.e. Hannoverian, Westfalian, Oldenburg etc. you'll find on their stud cards, their licensing scorings which include marks for things like paces, conformation and jumping. Even the dressage stallions are graded on their jump.
 
My friend has a grade a by Sir Donnerhal - hes an outstanding horse.

I have a rising 3yr old by Johnson (Jazz x Flemmingh) - however Johnsons damn has Sultan in her lines aswell, so am hoping he might have a good jump in him too.
 
Hi, I have a mare by Jazz out of a Wenderkreis mare and she has jumped in Belgium and has jumped double clears BSJA (and has winnings). She still has a very big uphill canter and a very good uphill trot with great hock action. My mare could breed a nice foal to a SJ stallion or a dressage stallion, that could do both disciplines.
 
sounds super :)) i mean, i'd much prefer a horse that looks good on the flat AS WELL AS having a great jump ;P

what is the minimum grade (as in x/10) you'd look at for a sire? there are some with 7,85 jump grade, what does that correspond to?
 
Using a dressage stallion on a jumping mare is very risky. There is a huge chance that you will reduce the jumping ability. The other way round works much better - a lot of good dressage horses have some jumping blood. It is now even suggested by the Hannoverian Breeding Association, that dressage breeders should take care to include some jumping blood lines.
It would be much safer to use a show jumping sire with really good confirmation who passes on good paces and rideability to his offspring. Just as an example, Calido and Contender but also Raphael/Ravallo and several other bloodlines are interesting in this respect.
Personally, I would not use Florestan descendants if your aim is to breed a really good jumper but if you are aiming for the amateur market or want a dual purpose horse, it's a different matter.
 
i havent seen many jumping stallions with magical hock action believe it or not,
well, at least not as magical as the dressage ones.
how about eventing stallions? do they count for dual purpose?
 
Wolkenderry, though primarily dressage bred (Wolkentanz/Londonderry) with great hock action and balance - he also has a fab jump!! (carries Captiol on the dam side).

In relation to the 'Florestan' post - my other boy 'Furst Love' is by a Florestan son (Feurstenreich) out of a jumping mare (Acord II/Drosselklang II). This has produced a horse with outstanding movement and cadence that also has great jumping ability!! (he was successful in all the young dressage horse champs and then went on to be runner up in the British Novice showjumping final at Scope Festival - and now, since joining Alex Hua Tian and Team China, has just won CIC* and CCI* at Borroca, Portugal).
So it can work this way round (dressage stallion on a jumping mare).
 
JaxMath said:
Wolkenderry, though primarily dressage bred (Wolkentanz/Londonderry) with great hock action and balance - he also has a fab jump!! (carries Captiol on the dam side).

In relation to the 'Florestan' post - my other boy 'Furst Love' is by a Florestan son (Feurstenreich) out of a jumping mare (Acord II/Drosselklang II). This has produced a horse with outstanding movement and cadence that also has great jumping ability!! (he was successful in all the young dressage horse champs and then went on to be runner up in the British Novice showjumping final at Scope Festival - and now, since joining Alex Hua Tian and Team China, has just won CIC* and CCI* at Borroca, Portugal).
So it can work this way round (dressage stallion on a jumping mare).
Click to expand...

Wow Jaxmath your horses sound impressive! i've just been to Wish's site, and he looks amazing! hope the foals are doing well! :) quite a jump for a dressage horse :P
 
Sure, I would count eventing stallions as dual perpose. As they tend to have a lot of blood or are pure TB, they would be especially useful on a mare with not so much blood. As far as breeding is concerned, especiallly the F2 generation should be very interesting.
I just thought that this particular mare already had a lot of blood and that the main concern was to breed a top jumper. Perhaps I got something wrong.
Also, I did not want to say that Florestans can't jump or would not make good eventers (I'm sure they would, especially with blood on the dam's side). I just meant, that the chance to produce a TOP show jumper (not talking about eventers) is much higher when choosing a specialist jumping sire. Re. Florestan, amongst all his very many progeny there is not a single really top class jumper (he also wouldn't be expected to sire those).
 
Away said:
Sure, I would count eventing stallions as dual perpose. As they tend to have a lot of blood or are pure TB, they would be especially useful on a mare with not so much blood. As far as breeding is concerned, especiallly the F2 generation should be very interesting.
I just thought that this particular mare already had a lot of blood and that the main concern was to breed a top jumper. Perhaps I got something wrong.
Also, I did not want to say that Florestans can't jump or would not make good eventers (I'm sure they would, especially with blood on the dam's side). I just meant, that the chance to produce a TOP show jumper (not talking about eventers) is much higher when choosing a specialist jumping sire. Re. Florestan, amongst all his very many progeny there is not a single really top class jumper (he also wouldn't be expected to sire those).
Click to expand...

ah right, i forgot about the blood in eventing sires...
the main concern wasn't really to bred a top jumper, but more to create a medium tour (135 - 145) jumper with enough movement for some deviation into a dressage ring.

movement is very important to me because well, even if the horse is a top class showjumper, a majority of what it does is on the flat.
 
I bred my jumping mare to a jumping stallion, and ended up with a jumping stallion and have ended with a dual purpose foal that was bef elite graded
Mare was ramiro z line, and so was stallion.
I would be looking at dual purpose stallions for what you want, like Rubicell, fantastic paces, fantastic jump, and prooven to produce what you are looking for.
 
With a top jumper, it doesnt matter what its paces are like to some extent. What you need is a horse that is maleable, responsive, elastic, with quick reactions.

However if you want a medium level horse that moves adequately for the dressage ring and jumps nicely enough for 1.30 classes then there are jumper sires out there (some already mentioned like Contender, and I'd add Caretino lines, and actually all the Stakkato's we have here move with good rhytym and elasticity, as do the Balous). You could look at a dressage stallion but often they have been bred to specialist dressage mares so difficult to know if they might produce a jumper. But even here in Germany I see people jumping horses with what would be considered dressage breeding, such as a Rubinstein x Weltmeyer jumping in the S classes at a show last week.
 
Sir Oldenburg: semen can be obtained from nijhof. Dressage Index of 144
By Sion - whose sire is Sultan (sire of Its Otto)
out of a Contender mare - Contender had v high dressage and jumping indeces
 
Landor S produces both international dressage and jumping horses. His full brothers are Lagoheidor G (competed at both GP dressage and jumping), Laertes (international showjumper) and Landwerder (competed at I1 dressage).
 
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