Dressage - only 1st place rosettes given

[Muddywellies]

As a true amateur, and not a very good one at that, I was so dismayed recently to find a venue only gave out 1st place rosettes. Half the class were professional (gold) riders on horses owned by others. When a competition costs a day off work and £30 to enter, I love a little something for my effort. Instead I got an incredibly rude sheet with not a single positive comment (not one) and went home with my tail between my legs. No wonder us amateurs are feeling so disheartened with BD atm.

Edited to add, yes I am aware of BD's rosette and prize money allocation. It's just nice when venues ignore that and give out rosettes to, say 6th place. I'll never be in the money, but a rosette is nice.

 

[PurpleSpots]

I am seeing more and more posts at the moment where it seems amateurs are being knocked harshly, but the pros aren't facing the same harshness.

Maybe I'm just imagining it?

 

[JFTDWS]

I don’t really agree about rosettes - random lower placing rosettes just become clutter if you’re competing regularly, which most people who are affiliated probably are.

The lack of any positivity on the sheet is rubbish though. It doesn’t surprise me - I encountered a lot of unpleasant judging (not that I’ve dressaged in years now) - but there is always a positive somewhere and judges should find something nice to say.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

I believe that riders, specially the riders just starting out, and when they know they aren't going to get placed need some encouragement that will get them to do more work & attends events again. I've seen judges in the past who are so stuck up and do nothing but put negativity on the sheets. This is certainly not the way to go. Encouragement helps more people enter the classes & that's all to the good.

 

[little_critter]

I don’t really agree about rosettes - random lower placing rosettes just become clutter if you’re competing regularly, which most people who are affiliated probably are.

The lack of any positivity on the sheet is rubbish though. It doesn’t surprise me - I encountered a lot of unpleasant judging (not that I’ve dressaged in years now) - but there is always a positive somewhere and judges should find something nice to say.

See I got the impression that those who were affiliated competed less. They seemed to train to the level they needed, go out competing 2-3 times in the season to get their qualification then maybe a pre Petplan / Regionals practice comp and that’s it.

 

[Peglo]

I’m another who likes a rosette after a comp. I will never be a competitive rider and just like a day out with my horse so enjoy having a little thing to remind me of it. (I didn’t get to go to pony club so I am channeling my inner child now )

Sorry you didn’t get any positive feed back. That is pants

 

[Spotherisk]

I started dog agility a couple of years ago and was sad that rosettes were given depending on the entries, often only first place.

Rosettes should definitely be awarded further down the line in dressage - after all you don’t have to collect it if it doesn’t mean much to you.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

In agility rosettes are usually given to 10% of entries. A lot of shows go to 20%. If only a first given it would presumably mean a class of under 10.

I started dog agility a couple of years ago and was sad that rosettes were given depending on the entries, often only first place.

Rosettes should definitely be awarded further down the line in dressage - after all you don’t have to collect it if it doesn’t mean much to you.

 

[humblepie]

I do love a rosette but winning a section of one and getting a red rosette always felt a bit fake but the rosette did look nice on the board. I do think there should be rosettes further down the line with the option not to take them which is what some places do. And yes even if for whatever reasons the test didn’t go that well there can be some encouragement. Judges don’t have much time but everyone tries their hardest. Good luck next time out.

 

[humblepie]

I’m another who likes a rosette after a comp. I will never be a competitive rider and just like a day out with my horse so enjoy having a little thing to remind me of it. (I didn’t get to go to pony club so I am channeling my inner child now )

Sorry you didn’t get any positive feed back. That is pants

I did pony club but still channeling my inner child aged 60 something .

 

[Bonnie Allie]

I don’t get the meanness of not giving out rosettes. It’s not like they cost a lot and 30 pounds for a test! Just wow.

On the judge comments, that kills me too. I do a lot of pencilling/writing at dressage. I also very lucky to have an education plus a career where leading and developing people has to be a core skill.

Many judges whilst well intentioned by being judges for our sport do not have any experience in developing people. Many are quite insecure individuals as well which can manifest in some pretty judgemental and nasty comments. Others I can almost prepopulate the sheets as they only have 2-3 transactional phrases they repeat throughout.

Some however are truly amazing individuals who understand that most of us work full time, raise families, have caring duties and squeeze in horses when we can for pleasure and comment knowing we are doing the best we can with the time and resources we have.

I reckon you got a dud judge on the day - and then no rosette! Well that would make me grumpy as well.

 

[JFTDWS]

See I got the impression that those who were affiliated competed less. They seemed to train to the level they needed, go out competing 2-3 times in the season to get their qualification then maybe a pre Petplan / Regionals practice comp and that’s it.

Given that there are areas and regionals twice a year, plus nationals, that would be very regular competition indeed.

I more meant that at a random unaffiliated competition, it might be someone’s first one ever, or only event of the year - that’s less likely if you’ve paid out for affiliation.

 

[Welly Boot]

Rosettes are so cheap yet the meaning and appreciation is recognition that hard work. tears and all the money spent is getting results. I'm sad for you OP

 

[JGC]

In France, the first third of entries are placed and most of the time there is a rosette and prize for those placings. Getting a rosette and a hoofpick makes my day and the first time I won an actual cup I was giddy with delight

 

[Spotherisk]

In agility rosettes are usually given to 10% of entries. A lot of shows go to 20%. If only a first given it would presumably mean a class of under 10.

Most of my G1 classes have under 20 entries.

 

[Nancykitt]

The 5th place rosette I got in riding club dressage is one of my most treasured possessions - my pony was only 5 and it took a lot of courage from both of us to get in the ring at all!
I got a few nice comments on the sheet too. What a good day that was!
The following month things didn't go quite as well but it wasn't awful and I was still feeling quite positive about the test. When I went to pick up my sheet there were two teenage girls reading it and laughing their heads off. I'd come 10th out of 10 - OK - but the judge had written in the last box 'Nice pony, shame about the rider.' And every other comment was rubbish.
I believe in constructive criticism but I can't stand it when people are just plain rude. I was totally humiliated.

 

[Muddywellies]

So glad it's not just me then. Some of my most meaningful rosettes have been 6th place, and I'm very attached to them. Many if the pro's who win 1st place don't even want the rosette anyway, but my 6th place would have meant the world to me, and given me a bit of joy on an otherwise rubbish day.

 

[Spotherisk]

The 5th place rosette I got in riding club dressage is one of my most treasured possessions - my pony was only 5 and it took a lot of courage from both of us to get in the ring at all!
I got a few nice comments on the sheet too. What a good day that was!
The following month things didn't go quite as well but it wasn't awful and I was still feeling quite positive about the test. When I went to pick up my sheet there were two teenage girls reading it and laughing their heads off. I'd come 10th out of 10 - OK - but the judge had written in the last box 'Nice pony, shame about the rider.' And every other comment was rubbish.
I believe in constructive criticism but I can't stand it when people are just plain rude. I was totally humiliated.

That is just completely cruel.

 

[JFTDWS]

The 5th place rosette I got in riding club dressage is one of my most treasured possessions - my pony was only 5 and it took a lot of courage from both of us to get in the ring at all!
I got a few nice comments on the sheet too. What a good day that was!
The following month things didn't go quite as well but it wasn't awful and I was still feeling quite positive about the test. When I went to pick up my sheet there were two teenage girls reading it and laughing their heads off. I'd come 10th out of 10 - OK - but the judge had written in the last box 'Nice pony, shame about the rider.' And every other comment was rubbish.
I believe in constructive criticism but I can't stand it when people are just plain rude. I was totally humiliated.

That’s the sort of thing that should have been reported to BD - assuming it was a list judge - or at least back to the venue. Just awful

 

[Nancykitt]

That’s the sort of thing that should have been reported to BD - assuming it was a list judge - or at least back to the venue. Just awful

Admittedly it was just RC dressage - but I did tell the organisers that I didn't appreciate the judge's comments and tried to explain how embarrassed I felt to find people laughing out loud while pointing to my test sheet. I was told that it was a listed judge and they felt lucky to have got her there for the day - followed with 'Well, perhaps you should have gone HC'.
To be fair, a few other people did complain about the judge!

 

[criso]

Some of the venues round here give you the option of chocolate or treats instead of a rosette for those that don't want a rosette.

 

[JFTDWS]

Admittedly it was just RC dressage - but I did tell the organisers that I didn't appreciate the judge's comments and tried to explain how embarrassed I felt to find people laughing out loud while pointing to my test sheet. I was told that it was a listed judge and they felt lucky to have got her there for the day - followed with 'Well, perhaps you should have gone HC'.
To be fair, a few other people did complain about the judge!

That’s astonishing. An RC should be motivated primarily by making it a positive experience and keeping those supporting the club happy (within reason). I hope you’ve found a nicer venue / club to compete with and didn’t support them in future?

 

[Nancykitt]

That’s astonishing. An RC should be motivated primarily by making it a positive experience and keeping those supporting the club happy (within reason). I hope you’ve found a nicer venue / club to compete with and didn’t support them in future?

Thank you - I actually gave up all RC competition stuff after that and decided to stick to hunting (clean boot) and hacking!
Several years later I moved to the Highlands, which is where I live now - no hunting up here but so much pleasure in hacking around the coast (with the same pony!)
I still treasure my 5th place rosette!
If it wasn't for the really negative experience I would probably have persevered with the dressage because there was lots to like about it.
My instructor told me that I'd probably get comments about the pony being 'above the bit', but not to worry too much at this stage because he was so young and it was more important to get him listening. She told me to focus on transitions, accuracy of the circles etc rather than worry about 'fiddling' the head down.
Pretty much every box on the sheet was "ATB". I think there was something about me riding crooked down the centre line and then the comment in the final box. Nothing else.
The previous month (when I got my rosette!) it wasn't a listed judge but at least she tried to encourage me - as well as giving good quality critical feedback that was genuinely helpful.

 

[JFTDWS]

Thank you - I actually gave up all RC competition stuff after that and decided to stick to hunting (clean boot) and hacking!
Several years later I moved to the Highlands, which is where I live now - no hunting up here but so much pleasure in hacking around the coast (with the same pony!)
I still treasure my 5th place rosette!
If it wasn't for the really negative experience I would probably have persevered with the dressage because there was lots to like about it.
My instructor told me that I'd probably get comments about the pony being 'above the bit', but not to worry too much at this stage because he was so young and it was more important to get him listening. She told me to focus on transitions, accuracy of the circles etc rather than worry about 'fiddling' the head down.
Pretty much every box on the sheet was "ATB". I think there was something about me riding crooked down the centre line and then the comment in the final box. Nothing else.
The previous month (when I got my rosette!) it wasn't a listed judge but at least she tried to encourage me - as well as giving good quality critical feedback that was genuinely helpful.

That’s a shame - and I agree with your instructor - but it sounds like you’re living the dream now. So much of the coastline up there is amazing, and it’s not too shabby inland either!

I won’t go into what I think about that judge. It would derail the thread and probably get me banned

 

[HBB]

I don't know about down south but in my local area BD entries are dwindling with such low numbers a lot of venues have stopped running them. Unaffiliated sj and dr entries are just as bad, so I am not surprised at how disheartened the OP feels about BD, it isn't doing any them favours to encourage riders to affiliate and support their competitions. I gave up BD as I was sick of all the pot hunters.

 

[Muddywellies]

I don’t really agree about rosettes - random lower placing rosettes just become clutter if you’re competing regularly, which most people who are affiliated probably are.

The lack of any positivity on the sheet is rubbish though. It doesn’t surprise me - I encountered a lot of unpleasant judging (not that I’ve dressaged in years now) - but there is always a positive somewhere and judges should find something nice to say.

Gosh, that 'clutter' represents blood sweat and tears to me. I love 'clutter' and each and every rosette/clutter means the world to me.

 

[Rumtytum]

Hadn’t ridden for nigh on 40 years, first proper rs lesson at 62 with first ever test (Intro) at 64, that 3rd place rosette is one of my most treasured possessions and a morning I will never forget.
I guess rosettes mean different things to different people; every one of mine is treasured and brings back happy memories.
@Nancykitt I would have been shattered by your judge’s comments. Absolutely shameful.

 

[southerncomfort]

The 5th place rosette I got in riding club dressage is one of my most treasured possessions - my pony was only 5 and it took a lot of courage from both of us to get in the ring at all!
I got a few nice comments on the sheet too. What a good day that was!
The following month things didn't go quite as well but it wasn't awful and I was still feeling quite positive about the test. When I went to pick up my sheet there were two teenage girls reading it and laughing their heads off. I'd come 10th out of 10 - OK - but the judge had written in the last box 'Nice pony, shame about the rider.' And every other comment was rubbish.
I believe in constructive criticism but I can't stand it when people are just plain rude. I was totally humiliated.

That's absolutely indefensible!

 

[Time for Tea]

Admittedly it was just RC dressage - but I did tell the organisers that I didn't appreciate the judge's comments and tried to explain how embarrassed I felt to find people laughing out loud while pointing to my test sheet. I was told that it was a listed judge and they felt lucky to have got her there for the day - followed with 'Well, perhaps you should have gone HC'.
To be fair, a few other people did complain about the judge!

If a listed judge is not capable of adjusting her expectations when judging riding club rather than affiliated dressage, both her listing and her judgement are worthless

 

[94lunagem]

An RC should be motivated primarily by making it a positive experience and keeping those supporting the club happy (within reason).

Absolutely this. I used to help run a dressage focussed RC that offered intro to PSG. We had everyone from lead rein intro’s up to established affiliated competitors wanting a less public go at the higher levels. We recognised that a rosette and a nice day out was what 75% of our members wanted and made an effort to source nice frillies, that were given out 1st-6th in each section Junior, Restricted and Open. Our limit across the day was 65 tests, and if that meant 65 rosettes (if that’s how the sections fell) then so be it!

We always had listed or trainee judges, and while most of the time they “got” the environment they were judging in there is one who springs to mind that we didn’t have back.

I hope this doesn’t put you off getting back out there and finding a venue and judges who are somewhat more supportive! A good judge should be able to frame an honest score and comment in a tactful way even if there is plenty of room for improvement. A “well tried” never hurts at least.