Dressage People - please can you tell me why ......

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TheoryX1

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Oh dear, you can tell I am bored at work this afternoon. This is a question I dont actually dare ask any of my dressage friends, as they all think I am barking mad anyway. Here goes, I dont want to get shot down in flames as I am an ex unaff dressage diva and MiniTx is going to be joining the BD ranks over the winter.

Our PC area dressage back in the summer was held, as usual on a large, fairly uneven grassy area. Now that holds no horrors to eventer daughter, she was even complimentary about it, being more even than a normal event arena. If I was to say that daughter was the only event rider on the team, who all competed to a pretty reasonable level at BD. Without exception all 3 mummies (all nice people I would add) said in total unison to each other and me that they were horrified at the ground, it was awful and how on earth could their dressage horses compete on it? They werent used to competing on grass. Me being me and totally blunt looked up and said I couldnt see what the fuss was all about. They all replied that daughter only rode an eventer, it was ok for her.

I was a bit taken aback and did not even think to ask why it was ok for her and not for dressage riders.

It has got me pondering since then. I dont want to enter a debate on who is better, dressage horses or event horses, there is no answer to that as it is personal opinion, but is what I heard there what most people actually think? On top of that our mare does not wear boots or bandages, and most dressage riders think its odd. Its not, she has very straight action, does not over-reach, so what is the point putting them on to warm up.

Hope I have not opened a can of worms and dressage riders - I love watching it, have done quite a bit of low level stuff in my past, its just been niggling away. Opinions please.
 
I remember when I started competing BD a lot of venues had grass warm up and some had even grass test, but as more and more venues have more and more facilities people now expect surfaces (and will expect good quality surfaces as well!). If the ground is lumpy and uneven it can make it more difficult to balance a horse, they may stumble, come on the forehand or slip on the grass, so personally I would prefer a nice surface. I also think that for the more collected work it's much safer to work on a good surface, but again the emphasis is on 'good' - an arena that's too deep could be as bad as or even worse than grass.

Regarding boots, it depends on how much of a risk you want to take. Personally I turn all of mine out without boots with no problem and warm up at shows without boots as I am almost always on my own. I've never had cause to regret it, but horses being horses they can always get injured! :)
 
No comment on dressage horses re eventers..... But a small anecdote - I went to a local RC unaffil ODE earlier this year and the ground was hard - pretty awful round the XC if I'm honest but as I was on my extremely surefooted and light on his feet arab I went around the worst of it and still ran.
However I did comment afterwards that perhaps they should have run the dressage on grass and the SJ on their big all weather arena rather than the other way round - the organiser looked at me in horror and said 'no one will do dressage on grass these days!'
I muttered something under my breath about what about EVERYONE who does BE but having already kicked up a bit of a fuss about not being told what speed we should be doing XC and finding out afterwards that their SJ was 350mpm and XC was 325mpm.....I thought I had best accept my multitude of time faults and get out of there fast!
 
Here's one for you - my friend competes one of her horses to Advanced BE and has always felt his dressage phase was the worst. As a result last winter she took him to a few BDs (of similar level) and completely cleared up! She got 3 wins, a 3rd and a 4th out of only 5... And really complimentary comments. The pure dressagers were peeved that a mere eventer could win...
 
I don't use boots on my horse when I go to a competition either as I go on my own and its too much hassle to get off and take them off, or ask someone else to do it.
My opinion is that horses that wear boots all the time learn that they can knock into themselves and it doesn't hurt, so when they don't have boots on they are then more likely to injure themselves.
The only injury my horse has had is a bad boot rub on his back leg because the school surface kept getting in it!

Last year he was kept somewhere that didn't have a school, so he was ridden on grass every day, it was summer and quite hard and he threw a splint.

I'm very erratic when it comes to boots, sometimes I put them on and other times I don't, however I always boot up all round and overreach boots when I'm hacking.
 
I always ride in bandages when warming up at a show; it has a very practical side as well - bandages keep white legs much whiter/cleaner, there is nothing worse than entering the ring with a horse who has dirty legs :/
 
I wouldn't do dressage in a grass arena. I imagine that most BE riders use studs in their horses feet and would find it far easier to ride a dressage test on grass with those in that I would.
I don't use studs because I don't need to for BD on sand/rubber surfaces, so perhaps this is what the pony clubs mums meant? Perhaps as they were so use to doing purely BD that they wouldn't think to use studs for a grass test?

When the ground is hard I wouldn't like to be skidding around a corner without studs in on a large 17.2 hoping he's not going to slip over (on me!) lol
My daughter competes her pony though at Dressage on grass, it makes it easier for her though as he doesn't wear shoes
My horse is always booted up when I ride and most controversially, booted up when turned out in the field, more to protect him from the electric fencing though than injuries from his three field friends ;)
 
Haha Will went to the same areas TX and I also thought how lovely the arenas were. Been to far worse BE.

When we compete on a decent arena the horse do go fantastically well, we are accostomed to slipping and sliding round our hankerchief sized piece of flat ground. Having said that I think if horses do endless arena work they should be shod accordingly - which most people don't, and those shoes will make them slip on grass.

Maybe the reason people are nervous riding on grass on their dressage horses is because the horse have lost some sense of self preservation working extravagantly, in an arena, and they will become unbalanced & slip on corners.

I am somewhat amazed that horses don't object more strenously to endlessly working in arenas but lots do seem to do it happily.

I hate to see layers of bandages on horses. Think it makes no sense to heat ligaments and tendons up that much, think horses shoudl have cool legs as much as possible. Would use plain boots for protection if I were to use anything.
 
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Dressage horses tend to be bigger movers than event horses and they tend to be heavier (both as a type and in condition) so hard ground is more likely to affect their action. If horses are slipping and don't feel secure they will hold themselves so lose suppleness and alter their action. Also they lose the confidence to let themselves go and if jarred may never get their true action back. Genuinely good springy turf with absolutely no jar in it and where the horse makes a print so that it has grip is probably the best surface for any horse. Eventers tend to be less fussy as that is what they are used to and their horses action tends to be more able to cope with the firmer surface. However they will go better on a more secure and forgiving surface.
 
not for any amount of money would you get me competing on grass!

would not do so without studs, and my back will not stand up to studding up (dad used to do it for me but no longer chauffeurs me to shows), so its a total no go.

that aside, horse is not shod anyway and has lovely feet-i wouldnt ruin them in order to work on grass.

grass is such an unreliable surface, changes quickly, cuts up quickly, can hide ruts and stones etc, i just dont trust it!

i think a good surface makes it easier for the horse to work in balance and stay confident-i do see some eventing dressage tests that look so tentative and either very worried about the ground or (in summer) flat out sore footed and not happy with it. i want my horse sound as a pound at the age of 20 and IMHO working and/or competing on grass would not help that. (yes i know, loads of teenage eventers still going strong, and you can tell me whatever you want but all i can think is twisted fetlocks and concussion trauma).
 
Would anyone here be interested to know that I school my eventer (only pc int/be90) on grass with push in letters EVERY DAY and only bother to stud if I'm having a lesson?
 
Throughout the summer i would always school on grass too.. Have been at our yard for about 5/6 months now, and have only used the school a handful of times (its only 30x15 and the surface gets quite deep in summer when theres not enough rain). Hes always fully booted just incase, but i think because we have to compete on grass for eventing (even though we havent been this year!!) getting them used to not such great ground can only help when it comes to the test.
 
Sorry, but I have never read such a load of precious crap as not riding on grass because of injury blah blah blah....more like you are too scared you horse will piss off with you.

Riding on grass is fine (would prefer studs i might add) and have done plenty of RC stuff with Finn on grass and would happily do the same with (proper dressage horse) Chunky.

Too many dressage riders are too precious. Oh, and bandaging is mostly only for fashion anyway.
 
If I school at home, its on grass (no markers even!) on a slope with no studs. And I jump at home with no studs either :)

Trouble with horses is, you can boot them up and protect them as much as possible, or not and they can be total idiots and never hurt themselves, then the simplest trip/slip and thats it. I can see why people protect their horses, but mine's kept a little bit more wild and free and has to look after himself :)

(I gave the hippo a little wash (as in hot cloth and tail wash) evening before my first comp in ages tomorrow, and he was not happy :D )
 
If you train your horse on a variety of surfaces you actually teach them to be careful and are less likely to have the odd 'accident'. Uneven terrain is also better for strengthening their tendons ;)
 
FinnMcCoul said:
Sorry, but I have never read such a load of precious crap as not riding on grass because of injury blah blah blah....more like you are too scared you horse will piss off with you.

Riding on grass is fine (would prefer studs i might add) and have done plenty of RC stuff with Finn on grass and would happily do the same with (proper dressage horse) Chunky.

Too many dressage riders are too precious. Oh, and bandaging is mostly only for fashion anyway.
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LOL, go FMC!! Was thinking similar myself but it comes much better from a Dressage person! :)
 
Inky_and_Sunny said:
If you train your horse on a variety of surfaces you actually teach them to be careful and are less likely to have the odd 'accident'. Uneven terrain is also better for strengthening their tendons ;)
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I believe this, too, though I don't ride to anywhere near the dressage level of some respondents here!
 
FinnMcCoul said:
Sorry, but I have never read such a load of precious crap as not riding on grass because of injury blah blah blah....more like you are too scared you horse will piss off with you.

Riding on grass is fine (would prefer studs i might add) and have done plenty of RC stuff with Finn on grass and would happily do the same with (proper dressage horse) Chunky.

Too many dressage riders are too precious. Oh, and bandaging is mostly only for fashion anyway.
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Precocious or precious crap? :) My horse is precious to me, but I'm definitely not precocious

I think the question asked was about ''competing'' on grass, not schooling or riding in general on grass? Of course I will ride on grass and our show jumping paddock is grass. I said I wouldn't ''compete'' on grass to do a dressage test and definitely not in a 20x40 arena size patch of grass
Unless of course it had been rolled that very morning, was spirit level flat, combed to within an inch of it's life and watered every half hour before I stepped foot on it. Then and only then might I consider it ;)
 
janey said:
Precocious or precious crap? :) My horse is precious to me, but I'm definitely not precocious

I think the question asked was about ''competing'' on grass, not schooling or riding in general on grass? Of course I will ride on grass and our show jumping paddock is grass. I said I wouldn't ''compete'' on grass to do a dressage test and definitely not in a 20x40 arena size patch of grass
Unless of course it had been rolled that very morning, was spirit level flat, combed to within an inch of it's life and watered every half hour before I stepped foot on it. Then and only then might I consider it ;)
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Excellent!!

And I suppose that none of these horses ever go out on grass to actually eat it and if they happen to be out in a field they never tear around like lunatics?

Actually I know the answer to that question because some dressage horses only get to get grass when they are lead out in hand.

We used to take my daughter BD all over the country and at that time quite a few BD competitions were held on grass. Then gradually the venues installed more and more surfaces and hey presto everyone doing BD these days thinks that horses should only exercise/compete on a manicured waxed surface.

On the subject of boots I am sure I read somewhere that if a horse is habitually exercised in boots then it can get used to the boots rubbing against each other and can come to rely on it as a comfort feature.

Oh, and don't get me started on the subject of travel boots!
 
I tend to ride on grass as the surface in our arena is so inconsistent. Also gets used to riding without the sides of the school to rely on and good practice for warming up on the side of a wind-swept hill!
If dressage people only want to ride on a surface then that's fine as they don't have to compete on grass; up to them surely?!
 
I'm going to be odd here and say that when I used to do dressage regularly I liked competing on grass as we've always had a fairly deep sand school so the sudden freedom of movement gave my girl extra oomph! My youngster now goes better in the uneven, sloping paddock (if not too hard/soft) than in the school because she's only small with dainty hooves, and finds it much easier going on the grass. But then she's turned out on a hillside and lives out in summer, so probably used to it lol!!
 
It is funny, for years I showjumped on grass - never thought anything of it. Only very big international shows or winter indoors were run on a surface.

Now, I don't think I would jump or do dressage on grass happily. Unless the ground was super good, which it rarely is in this country.

As for leg protection: why wouldn't you? One misstep and the horse strikes into itself, 6 months to a year off work with a tendon injury? Why take the chance?
 
it really shows up every error when you introduce young horses or even older horses and riders a lovely undulating grass arena when they are used to surfaces, its quite an eye opener. I personally love grass, and its entirely up to you to only go to venues where the grass is good, which is perfectly do-able.

i love it when the ground is good enough to get out the school and go schooling in the fields, what better way to produce a young horse in ANY discipline than to make sure it can find its feet, balance itself, concentrate despite all the distractions in a nice hilly field .

i would expect any horse i ride to work on the flat on good grass without any studs (jumping always, flat no) if it cant then i would be questioning its IQ!
 
I have competed on grass, i actually did a warm up class at Badminton dressage champs & won the class the indoor class didnt go well however:eek:.
I love being able to work in on fields it's liberating lol.

I don't work my horse on bad ground though & the same goes for arena's. But i can be often found schooling in my fields during summer months, i don't feel it's good for a horse to always school in an arena, plus being in the open really tests your aids.

As for booting/bandaging yes i do im afraid.
 
Just to put it out there I haven't ridden on a surface since march. But maybe thats cause I ride eventers.... ;)
Tbh at the end of the day a horse is a horse whatever it does. Im pretty sure they really don't mind what surface they are on. I've always been taught that if you are not confident about something then neither will the horse, so if someone has a doubt about riding on grass then so will the horse and this is what causes the slips/trips etc. Its the same with jumping if you don't want to jump a certain jump the horse will sense this and probably stop.
 
Interesting - this has been bugging me for 3 months.

FinnMcoul - nicely said. I know some lovely dressage people, lovely horses, some of them are my friends socially, and there are some great dressage people on here. Why for gods sake are you so precious about your horses? Along the lines of 'Its a dressage horse, I cant ride it on anything but perfect surfaces'. OK, I am 'precious' about mine to the extent they get cared for well and loved to pieces, but I am not precious about our pretty valuable eventer going out in the fields and whooping around with her mates, nor do we worry whether the dressage, jumping or whatever is on a surface or grass - she has stud holes in her shoes and we will always take a stud kit with us. She is a horse after all and we just get on with life regardless. Both my daughter and I have read Pippa Funnell's autobiography and she said that if you warm up on the crapiest piece of ground you can find, that if you get it right there, just think how right you will get it on a reasonably level surface?

Oh dear, I have probably upset some of the dressage riders on here, but its interesting to hear the views, and yes, I did think the 3 parents in question were a bit precious, as not beating about the bush, if you take it down to purely the intrinsic value of their dressage horses, they were all probably around the same value as MiniTX's event horse. Again, subject for another debate, but I dont want to start it!
 
OK, my horses do a little of both, the grey below is a 17.2hh WB who if im honest is far more suited to dressage. He is a heavier type with big movement. The other is Riley, who i posted about last week not liking the ground at dauntsey eventing, for those of you who didnt read it was 2inches thick in mud :)

I competed in the RC dressage a couple of years ago and was amazed by all the people complaining about the grass arenas. My boys did great tests and were both in top 5 and my now retired event mare won her class.
I found when talking to people they were more complaining about the arenas as their horses were not 'behaving'. They were finding them stronger and less willing to concentrate. When i spoke to many people afterwards who were having trouble i asked them how often they schooled in a field and the reply from nearly everyone - why would we, we have a school.
So i think on many occasions people making excuses for why their horses are not working to their normal standard, have they forgotten about riding before we all had arenas???????
And no i am not starting a debate on high level DR riders i am more thinking about the mid range RC and BD people, they may have a school all the time so do they even think, what happens if i have to compete on grass??

I have only had mine 2.5 years and before then, even through the winter i used to school in the feild and never, ever did i stud up. This summer i have done a little juping and flat work out there just to give them somewhere else to work and experience. I had riley only just a month or 2 before the school was built so have only really jumped on a surface or 'good' grass and look what happened when i was faced with mud again??? I fell apart and hated the mud. Udo the grey however i have hunted as in my opinion being a bigger set horse i would much rather hunt him than a spindly TB (my usual favourite breed :) ) and when faced with some mood in march eventing, it didnt even affect him. Lesson learnt for me, im going hunting :)
 
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