Dressage ponies

[Kylara]

Being a tiddler I school a lot of ponies. I also do a lot of dressage.

I have been thinking lately about combining these and producing a fancy pants dressage pony, ostensibly for junior riders.

My question is - what sort of dressage level should it get to? I was thinking adv med, maybe inter or PSG, but I don't have a huge amount to do with Junior dressage.

Also what sort of height ponies are in demand? I work things 11hh and up, but appreciate that 11.2 ponies may not be as in demand as 12.2, but I don't really know Junior dressage so thoughts on size also appreciated.

Lastly, I'm not sure whether it would be worth producing to sell, to loan, or to lease as kids grow so fast and a pony trained to that sort of level needs a decent amount of work and consistent schooling to stay capable. Leasing I think could be the way forward but again I don't really know the JD world and if pony would always be finding a great home if sold or not ruined/left to stagnate if loaned.

 

[Otherwise]

Ponies and juniors are two different things with the fei, ponies are riders up to 16( can't remember the lower age limit) on ponies up to 14.2hh, juniors are riders 16-18 on horses. The fei pony tests are medium level so you would want to be schooling a couple of levels above. The most in demand height would be a up to height 14.2hh but they absolutely must measure under, some people put a lot of effort into getting the life height certificate.

 

[be positive]

I think the best market will either be 14.2's or if smaller more of a very well schooled allrounder as very few young children will be looking to specialise until they are going onto 14.2's, many will fall into dressage because they have a pony that doesn't jump or they find they enjoy the flatwork rather than actively settling out at 8-10 deciding on dressage as the aim so I would be careful about making a 12.2 into a highly schooled pony that requires too much work and limits the fun to be had doing PC etc.

A team pony is competing at Ad Med level, I think, so spending years training to PSG/ Inter would be wasted, it certainly wouldn't make good business sense to spend 4-5 years training to then struggle to find a rider capable of riding it, I would aim to produce 12.2-13.2's to novice/ elem with a good grounding over fences and possibly a few showing outings under it's belt to get a premium price, a 14.2 working at elem/ med with some points should be easy to sell.

Leasing is a good option but not without risk, the pony could get injured require time off that means it sitting in a field earning nothing but not a bad enough injury to be a LOU claim, it could prove tricky in a different home and come back with a less than perfect reputation, leasing is not so popular in this country as it is in the US so you may find it difficult to place it unless you have good contacts with trainers who are on the lookout for a mount for a client or can find your own client who is going to be based with you for the term of the lease, again an allrounder may be easier to do this with, it will open up more avenues and give you far more options of what to do with any pony that you own.

 

[Leo Walker]

If you are happy to jump then there are mega bucks payout for potential FEI event ponies. I had a friend who made a pretty good living from buying nice quality young/green connies and bringing them on. She spent a few months on each one. Brought them on, did some basic dressage and SJing at reasonable levels then took them round some BE stuff and then sold them for terrifying amounts of money, based pretty much on them being easy and having potential. It didn't take anywhere near the amount of time to bring on a dressage pony. If I remember rightly it was about 6 months a pony. She did have a fantastic eye though and made sure they were easy in very way. But it did always seem like an easy way to make a living if you are LW and talented

 

[Kylara]

I hadn't thought of fei event ponies! Happy to jump and even have access to a fabulous xc course next door so doable.

That's the thought I had with leasing too. Doesn't seem as popular as in the US :/

OK so trained to medium level with changes probably a good way to go. Can do the jumping etc for all-rounder too. Just need to find ponies of the right size!
14hh are the size I look 'best' on size wise, though I seem to spend so much of my time working 11.2s! Would just be a case of finding the bigger ponies, I'm not certain where to look really - ask me for a sec A or D and I'm good, anything else I'm at a bit of a loss.

What sort of heights do the fei event ponies jump? I'm somewhat limited by xc next door as smallest fence is 70 and there aren't many! Plenty of biguns though. Obviously could travel but so much easier to train close to home to begin with.

It's all doable I think and can always be popped at home for a bit for a chill out or some serious traffic busting. It would just be finding the just backed 14hh pony in the first place! I think I'll be getting an 11.3 A to work on showing, dressage and whp so bit of jumping to sell on as kids all rounder/hoys level show pony, but obviously not as much money in that, I'd probably get more with it broken to drive so will do that too. But long term I'd like to have a to sell on project that will cover the cost with maybe a bit extra on top, hence the dressage pony idea!

 

[CrazyMare]

No changes in the FEI pony dressage test!

Event ponies jump 1m10 ish, plus brush.

There are also fledgling BYRDS sections with younger children and simpler tests which need well schooled, obedient, safe ponies.

 

[be positive]

You are in the right area to pick up a backed NF pony, they may not be so popular as connies but will do the job and the prices are lower initially, we have had a few here found on NFED that were very talented, moved well and had straightforward temperaments, for a backed one you will probably need to pay £1500-2000 but there are often one or two unbacked for well under that, if you look on regularly there will be the odd bargain but they tend to get snapped up within days so you need to be ready to move quickly.

FEI ponies jump serious novice BE tracks but you would be looking to move them on before they get to that stage although if they will pop a 1m10 fence in the arena it will show the potential to go all the way, there is little benefit from keeping them long term unless you can get a decent BE record but that will add to the costs, my best sales have been 5-6 year olds that have been out at 75- 90 sj winning a few rosettes, done a few unaff odes and hunter trials and have reasonably well established dressage in place, the main priority for many mums is safe in traffic, easy on the ground and unlikely to buck the child off, bolting and rearing are not on the agenda for any of mine, profit margin is fair if you sell within 12 months and get away with no vets bills other than vaccinations.

One we bought for £800, sold for £2800 to a local PC home as a rising 5 year old, he was sold for over double that 3 years later, he was only 13 hands he cost me nothing other than basic keep and a few entries, if he had been bigger we would have been able to get substantially more as he was extremely genuine and totally uncomplicated.


Out of interest, being nosy, what level are you experienced at , to do the job of producing and making money you really need to stay within your comfort zone and be fully clued up with the rules and standards required for the ponies you are selling otherwise it can be hard convincing an experienced mum that the pony does have the ability to do the job, there is no point in using these projects as a learning curve as any blips will mean they take longer or have a less than faultless competition record, better to aim a bit lower to start with sell a few, get a good reputation and develop your skills to produce what the market wants than to aim for the top and keep the ponies too long trying to get there, finding the market and filling it is the key to success.

 

[Kylara]

I used to event at equivalent BE novice/intermediate I think but all unaff as ponies too small to affiliate. Did a fair bit of team PC ODEs as well about 3'9". And sj up to 1.20m, dressage capable to inter level I'd guess but never competed at that level (about medium ish I think) not competed for a while due to lack of horse! So just been schooling things.
I teach sj (trainee BS course designer) and flatwork with the odd bit of xc as and when.

All ponies so used to tricky mentality you get until they get the hang of things. Rules wise, I am the official rule reader for some of my clients so used to reading through them regularly!

 

[be positive]

With no BE/ BD record or recent experience, very different to schooling or unaff when it comes down to proving yourself in a competitive market, you would really be best establishing yourself at BE 90/ 100 , BD Nov/ Elem and getting the ponies out at that level being seen and successful rather than promoting them at levels that may be attainable but are so long term that any profit can be lost on the way there, it only takes a minor injury to put them out for a season and wipe out all the work you have put in.
There will be more of a market for the lower levels anyway, get a few of those going and you will be on your way, having an up to date competition record and being out on the circuit will be the best way of promoting the ponies as well as your other businesses, networking at competitions and being seen to be successful will give potential clients confidence in your abilities and they will start to come looking for ponies/ instruction and livery.

 

[Kylara]

I know, records have become much more important, hence why I've been looking for my new horse! I was always rather good at comps, very laid back so ponies generally well behaved

 

[Booboos]

I only know the dressage pony market but it is extremely competitive. It is dominated by purpose bred dressage ponies that have been produced by professional riders and have been examined for suitability with a fine tooth comb by the child's trainer. I know someone who produced two team ponies and she has competition experience at Inter II; it took her 3-4 years to produce each pony and they sold for between 15,000 and 20,000 before the crisis really took hold.

If you are looking to make a bit of money producing a safe all rounder may be less risky and more profitable in the long run.

 

[Matafleur]

I only know the dressage pony market but it is extremely competitive. It is dominated by purpose bred dressage ponies that have been produced by professional riders and have been examined for suitability with a fine tooth comb by the child's trainer. I know someone who produced two team ponies and she has competition experience at Inter II; it took her 3-4 years to produce each pony and they sold for between 15,000 and 20,000 before the crisis really took hold.

If you are looking to make a bit of money producing a safe all rounder may be less risky and more profitable in the long run.

All of this. The team ponies really move and because the children are only eligible for ponies for a very short length of time the ponies need to be adaptable, forgiving and extremely capable. The kids ride brilliantly but there is only a short length of time to get to know the pony, qualify for teams etc. It's also a very small pool of people that are buying these ponies, I think you'd be surprised by the fact that even the very good ones don't necessarily sell that easily.

Be realistic, you may be capable but you have no competition experience and are unlikely to be hooked into the sort of network that these ponies sell through. It also takes a lot of experience to produce something quickly enough to turn a decent profit at that level. And to be honest sourcing the quality of pony you'd need won't be all that easy.

On the other hand, there is always a strong market for safe, normal, capable pony club ponies. You could source and turn these round more quickly to a much wider market.

Good luck!!

 

[smja]

With your 'official' record and experience, I'd suggest getting hooked into the local PC. Safe, capable, easy ponies sell well to that market, and they're pretty loyal when it comes to recommendations.

Build up your rep there, edge into BE, get some good grassroots results and you're well on your way to producing the type of pony that will take a kid to the MM cup at badminton - much wider market than FEI event ponies but a reasonably high price bracket.

 

[Booboos]

If you can offer re-schooling or fine tuning all rounder/PC ponies you should have a lot of people interested. Not everyone is light enough to school a pony but almost all ponies need an adult to help sort out problems or progress them to the next level.